Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[skatedreamer]

I haven't but one Eurosport commentator commentating speed skating yesterday said that "the Russian Olympic Committee is in a big trouble now."

Th

Its unfortunate that compassion and generosity haven't been extended to the athletes with no positive drug tests.

Agreed! Certainly Kamila deserves compassion and the benefit of doubt, but NOT at the expense of the other athletes.

This is why I believe she should have been eliminated from the singles event. It seems that the authorities were so focused on Kamila's rights that everyone else got lost in the shuffle.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Dig if you will this picture. Had this exact situation happened to Nathan Chen, do you think the ruling would have been different?

Yup, different.

Though the test being unaccounted for (thus far) for 3 weeks could've been a problem with anyone.

 

[Magill]

They would replace her before Olympics to begin with, but her other tests before and during OLY were negative. And even they were sure she is a doper, they would replace her with losing one gold medal, as RUSSADA was the one charging her in first place (before they have a conversation with her). So, my point still stands - they just not sure she is guilty.

No.They are just sure that they want to keep their team gold medal and, unfortunately, that is the only way to achieve that...

 

[silveruskate]

CAS Secretary General Matthieu Reeb said that banning the athlete based on a drugs test in December is detrimental to her future given the young age of the athlete who should be protected under current regulations. The ruling was very generous and compassonate.

Sadly the woke-ness mental health concerns don't apply to the Russian 15 year old who is truly very vulnerable. Somebody that is possibly child abused and a complete victim, but the pitchforks are out to do anything to stop her competing. A sad situation.

 

[matin calin]

Where is their opportunity for fair competition, integrity, and an Olympic moment? They are being robbed of a chance to compete on an even playing field and flower and medal ceremonies.

I am sure you have no experience of being a professional athlete so I can assure you, right now they don't think in these grand categories, being robbed of an olympic moment, integrity etc. Their only concern now is their own performance not some external intrigues. And, if they belong to the group of figure skaters who can actually count on the flower ceremony and medals I suspect they do not follow social media at all in order not to lose focus.
Please don't overdramatise the whole thing.

 

[cisum88note]

So true. If Kamila was not disqualified and sent home immediately then there must have been a legal ground not to resort to such measures. I am sure that this was analysed extensively during that 7 hour hearing, which essentially is a trial.

Provisions (or lack thereof) in whatever document that do not allow sending Kamilla home and CAS decision are also sources of law that should be respected. Just as much as the list of banned medicines which is oh so holy for everyone on here.
Or was she supposed to be kicked out of competition even if the current set of rules does not allow it?

If you've read the decision and WADA's response, WADA is claiming CAS made up a legal exception that is not written in the WADA rules and has never been implemented before. I would encourage commenters to actually look at the legal decisions and analysis or refrain from posting "there must have been a legal ground" if you aren't actually familiar with the legal reasoning in the public decision and WADA's public response.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

No.They are just sure that they want to keep their team gold medal and, unfortunately, that is the only way to achieve that...

Noup, that would mean they loose the right to compete by their name again at next OLY, because of just one medal. Again, no common sense in that.

 

[cisum88note]

I am sure you have no experience of being a professional athlete so I can assure you, right now they don't think in these grand categories, being robbed of an olympic moment, integrity etc. Their only concern now is their own performance not some external intrigues. And, if they belong to the group of figure skaters who can actually count on the flower ceremony and medals I suspect they do not follow social media at all in order not to lose focus.
Please don't overdramatise the whole thing.

Did you even see the posts from current and past participants actually saying that they are distracted and disadvantaged by this situation that I replied to? Yes, they very much are thinking of these things right now, as they themselves have said. Don't dismiss the actual words of the athletes.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

What is everyone's feelings about Kamila deciding, on her own will, to pull out of the competition? I know there's really no way it would happen, and with her being a minor, I'm sure no one is going to put this kind of burden on her...

As a strategy to possibly preserve her career in the long term beyond this season, withdrawing herself would be the best action she could take. She could tell nobody in advance especially not her coaches, walk over to the referee during warmup, and withdraw. Get off the ice, ignore her coaches, tell ROC delegation leader that she wants to immediately go home, and follow through.

She could also decide to skate but just jump all singles, in an obvious attempt to end up way down the results list.

But this won't happen. She may be a tough competitor on the ice, but I've got her sized up as a rather weak and pliable character off-ice even by 15-year old standards. She does everything she is told to do by adults. By now she should have put two and two together, and have a pretty fair idea of how this drug got in her system. I'm no longer convinced she and the rest of the girls didn't have at least a glimmer of what was going on at Sambo. And the biggest psychological blow--betrayal by adults close to her--may take longer to register, but hopefully soon enough, she will see that the coaching team around her has agendas that diverge from her best interest. Whatever happens with the investigation, I think her association with Team Tutberdze is not going to last much longer.

I don't believe the grandfather story for a moment. This is the System trying to have the family take the rap vs TT.

 

[Magill]

No, because that would mean they loose the right to compete by their name again at next OLY, Again, no common sense in that.

What do they lose if they go by another fancy name - how about OCR? Whatever...

 

[Erin9]

Wow, so 45 days is the difference between "irreparable harm" as a minor and having to meet the consequences as an adult.

Sometimes I wonder how officials can make these statements with a straight face.

Kind of like how “punished” Russia was for its widespread, systemic doping: They can’t use their flag.

Personally- I question everything now about the stunning success of the Russian girls over literally the whole world. Fair or not- Russia’s past history is what it is. And this just raises my suspicions that nothing has changed.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

What do they lose if they go by another fancy name - how about OCR? Whatever...

RUSSADA was the one charging her in first place, so to compete by their name and with their anthem is obviously more important than loosing one gold medal especially when they can get another two, no matter what you or other people think.

 

[silveruskate]

Exactly. CAS ruled "irreparable harm" if Valieva doesn't compete and then somehow is absolved of the positive test. Who represented the 23 (now 24) other competitors who are facing irreparable harm competing against someone with a positive PEDs test who are now dealing with the situation unfolding knowing their sport and the Olympic institution is allowing a doper to compete. Where is their opportunity for fair competition, integrity, and an Olympic moment? They are being robbed of a chance to compete on an even playing field and flower and medal ceremonies.

Especially when no one else who has tested positive has been given such a presumption of innocence by the international arbitrators.

If we compare scenarios the level of harm for the 24 others is so much lower. The actual determination of if she is guilty or not hasn't been made. The only harm so far is butt-hurtness.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Well if Kamila did in fact tell the story about her grandfather in front of the RUSADA committee,
then that would be her claiming to know how the banned substance got in her system,

Which should exclude any question as to the authenticity of the sample that was tested,
or having the time it took to receive the result as a detracting factor from her being able to defend herself,
as she had already defended herself.

can anybody dig up the phrasing of sections 3 and 4 from this morning's declaration?
this thread has become sooo loooong.

 

[Magill]

RUSSADA was the one charging her in first place, so to compete by their name and with theirs anthem is obviously more important than one gold medal, no matter what you or the other people thinks.

RUSADA suspended her knowing perfectly well they were going to lift the suspension the next day. Probably they even instructed her team what they should do to achieve it.

 

[matin calin]

Don't dismiss the actual words of the athletes.

I would not be so sure that those instagram (?) posts were "the actual words of the athletes".
Even if they were, it can be a strategic move on part of Alysa, Yelim etc, to reach out to their fan base and add to the scapegoating of Kamila and the Russians. I really find it hard to believe that now, 1 day prior to SP, they'd be preoccupied by this drama.

 

[Sabrina]

I have nothing against Valieva, but in 2000 summer Olympics, Andreea Raducan was stripped of her gold medal in gymnastics, because her doctor gave her a cold/flu drug that contained ephedrine, which at that time was on the list. Andreea was also 15 years old. Ephedrine is not at all, a hard core drug.

 

[cisum88note]

Well, i expected this to happen after RUSSADA decided not to charge Kamila. I didn't expect so many hatred comments, but people need to project hate they have somewhere i guess... It's a common sense that if Russians were sure Kamila is intentionally doped, they wouldn't let her to compete, because that wouldn't change anything for them. They will still have their gold medalist and they will still have the first girl landing a quad at Oly, only her name would be different... And even if CAS decided that Kamila or someone around her broke the clean sport rules, I bet her suspension would be very short. Chinese swimmer was suspended only for 3 months, and USA swimmer only for 6 months for the same substance. The problem with the substance founded in Kamila's blood that another substance which is used for migraine can give a false positive test. And Kamila's tests were negative both at Europeans, this Olympics and during GP circuit. As i said before, some people's narrative that somebody must be guilty without a chance to prove otherwise is just beyond my look at humans nature, but i guess Freud was right after all

Except nobody is making the claim that she mixed up another medication. Leaks

They also mention that her grandfather had received a heart transplant. If TMZ is on Russian post-heart transplant medical protocols then maybe this scenario is not so improbable after all.

This medication has a half life of 4-7 hours and would be gone in approximately a day. How could she have "accidentally" ingested the medication at her grandfather's in Kazan when she was in St. Petersburg for days competing at Russian Nats? Even a basic factual examination of this claim makes no sense, nevermind the scientific fact that this medicine isn't transferrable from drinking from the same glass.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

RUSADA suspended her knowing perfectly well they were going to lift the suspension the next day. Probably they even instructed her team what they should do to achieve it.

Yeah sure, let's talk conspiracy again. Sorry, but again there is no logic in that for many reasons i've stated above, and i won't comment on the things my cognition can't evaluate rationally.
(It's a normal process, CAS was charging her or hearing charges against her and after hearing her testimony they decided what they've decided. The same as RUSSADA before them. Which means that both RUSSADA and CAS were not sure she is guilty. But let's behave like she must have been, if it's easier that way)

 

[RatedPG]

Here is the report on Valieva's case prepared by the Russian opposition investigative journalists 'Dossier Center'. They've obtained somehow the leaked audio of Valieva's proceedings at RUSADA's disciplinary committee on 9 Feb, and also WADA's application to the CAS. Their report is in Russian, but the text of WADA's application is attached there in English. For short, Valieva's grandfather says that he receives trimetazidine, and Kamila used the same 'contaminated glass' after him. Her mother also says that Kamila receives another medicine - hypoxen 'to treat heart variations'. WADA describes all this in its application and states that trimetazidine is also for heart treatment, as hypoxen too. Dossier Center's experts say that TMZ is in capsules which dissolve in intestines only and cannot contaminate the glass. https://dossier-center.appspot.com/kamila/

That is so interesting. I wonder if there is a way to measure the amount of trimetazidine in her body on 12/25. I imagine that drinking the contaminated glass after someone has taken the drug, it would appear with a lesser quantity in her body, than someone who takes this drug regularly. Seems like it would be easy to find this out.

She could be innocent and if the grandfather uses this drug, I can see why it would be in her body. But, at the same time, I can also see how the grandfather could buy this drug, as Kamila is a minor, and then it gets administered to her, with the excuse of the drinking after grandfather contaminated glass, if she gets caught.

This is a tough case. An investigation though, could give us answers. I’m still 50/50. But, thanks for this information.