Team USA files Appeal to receive medal prior to Closing Ceremony

[Allikat]

I don't imagine it has been done before (or is even allowed?!), but I think only the Silver and Bronze team medals should be awarded. Those athletes shouldn't be deprived of their Olympic moment because the top finishers didn't play by the rules. I'm sure it won't happen, just wishful thinking on my part.

Perfect solution--I had the same thoughts myself. Just don't award the Gold--to anyone (yet)! USA and Japan can receive what they earned; ROC must wait, likely for a few months, to be awarded 1)nothing, as ROC in total is DQed and NOBODY gets the Gold, 2) Gold, as AV's sample B test results prove negative or the test is somehow negated, or 3) Bronze, which would of course mean that both USA and Japan receive upgraded medals because ROC's points would be refigured when Kamila's team contributions get dropped.

I think 1) will be the most likely outcome, 2) will be far less likely, but possible, and 3) not impossilbe, but nearly so. Guess we'll see what happens!

 

[iceskater10]

The appeal was dismissed by the CAS.

 

[yyzskater]

I think the IOC really doesn't want to give out the Gold to ROC given the situation. And giving out just the Silver and Bronze will cause more headache for the IOC than just postponing the whole thing. Either way, its messy

 

[gsk8]

Update. Appeal Denied.

Reasons to come soon.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I disagree. I understand the athletes want to have the ceremony at the Olympics, but do the Americans really want to give the Gold medal to Russians? Especially sice Russia might get DQ? And in that case, if Russia gets their medals now, they will never return it. Czech female biathlon relay finisbed fourth at Sochi. But then the Silver Russian really got DQ due to doping years later, so The Czech Republic would get Bronze. They still don't have it. Russia refuses to return the medals and the standings were not upgraded.

It's not that they refused. Some athletes who appealed at CAS won the case, so their sanctions were annulled and their standings were back to the previous form. To quote: 'All but one of these athletes appealed against their bans to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On 1 February 2018 the court overturned the sanctions on 28 athletes meaning that their Sochi medals and results are reinstated, but decided that there was sufficient evidence against 11 athletes to uphold their Sochi sanctions.[20] On 24 September 2020 the court overturned the sanctions on 2 athletes meaning that their Sochi medals and results are reinstated, but decided that there was sufficient evidence against 1 athlete to uphold their Sochi sanctions.[21] The court also decided that none of the 42 athletes should be banned from all future Olympic Games, but only the 2018 Games' (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table)

 

[cheerknithanson]

Will these athletes get their medals ever?

 

[el henry]

Will these athletes get their medals ever?

After Kamila case is decided (not on a temporary basis, but permanently), the IOC will determine the medal allocation.

I understand from previous cases like this that yes, the athletes do get physical Olympic medals.

They do not get the podium experience, which is sad. But also an indication (to me) that the CAS preliminary decision on Kamila was not some indication of the final word.

 

[cheerknithanson]

After Kamila case is decided (not on a temporary basis, but permanently), the IOC will determine the medal allocation.

I understand from previous cases like this that yes, the athletes do get physical Olympic medals.

They do not get the podium experience, which is sad. But also an indication (to me) that the CAS preliminary decision on Kamila was not some indication of the final word.

I want to see Chock/Bates and Zhou get their medals. They worked so hard for it.

 

[Sjs5572]

After Kamila case is decided (not on a temporary basis, but permanently), the IOC will determine the medal allocation.

I understand from previous cases like this that yes, the athletes do get physical Olympic medals.

They do not get the podium experience, which is sad. But also an indication (to me) that the CAS preliminary decision on Kamila was not some indication of the final word.

They will get their medals just as their become eligible to join "AARP."

 

[cheerknithanson]

How long could something like this take?

 

[4everchan]

How long could something like this take?

the real question is how long will it take to clarify Kamila's situation. In some similar cases, it's been 6-24 months. I expect this to go faster if they consider her age and the priority of stopping the turmoil around the scandal

 

[anonymoose_au]

I thought about this too.
Don't penalize those who are not under review and don't reward those who still are.

But the rest of the ROC team aren't under review? Why should they miss out on their moment too? It seems unfair.

But then they won't get a medal if Kamila is disqualified anyway... So I don't know...they should just upgrade US, Japan, Canada. Because it's really not fair to Mark, M/G and S/K to be kept in limbo either. They wouldn't have known anything about this prior to the event.

But I see the IOC denied it anyway.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The appeal was dismissed by the CAS.

Does CAS even know how to make a correct decision?! First they insist Caster Semenya isn't a proper woman and needs to take drugs TO compete. Then they uphold the lifting of Kamila's ban leaving her to fall apart on front of the whole world. THEN they won't let USA and Japan at least get their moment.

What a shitty court.

 

[labgoat]

But the rest of the ROC team aren't under review? Why should they miss out on their moment too? It seems unfair.

But then they won't get a medal if Kamila is disqualified anyway... So I don't know...they should just upgrade US, Japan, Canada. Because it's really not fair to Mark, M/G and S/K to be kept in limbo either. They wouldn't have known anything about this prior to the event.

But I see the IOC denied it anyway.

Unfortunately thats the nature of being part of a team you rise or fall together just as if one of you bombed or you subtract Kamila's scores and that determines your place.

 

[Amei]

But the rest of the ROC team aren't under review? Why should they miss out on their moment too? It seems unfair.

But then they won't get a medal if Kamila is disqualified anyway... So I don't know...they should just upgrade US, Japan, Canada. Because it's really not fair to Mark, M/G and S/K to be kept in limbo either. They wouldn't have known anything about this prior to the event.

But I see the IOC denied it anyway.

Unfortunately the issue is that Valieva participated and there's a potential that she will be disqualified. And the team event for figure skating is really new, so do they even have rules for this type of situation?

Potential scenarios:

1. Like do they just DQ Valieva and adjust ROC's points accordingly? If they do that then ROC would drop to third place with 54 points.
2. Do they DQ Valieva but then move everyone else up a spot, which would put Canada in third.
3. Or do they DQ the entire ROC team like its a track relay?

Scenario 3 to me is the most unfair way to address the situation - a track relay is different in that the time is cumulative.

Ironically ROC would be in a better situation for scenario 1 and 2 had they substituted in Shcherbakova or Trusova for the FS because then either scenario would be just impacting the SP and it would be swapping the gold and silver position or potentially needing to tie-break between Japan and ROC for the silver and bronze.

 

[4everchan]

The CAS had already ruled on protecting Valieva from irreparable harm. Having a medal ceremony without her, if she is indeed cleared from sanctions, would have gone against that ruling. People complain about judging all the time in figure skating... but who knew it would get worse.. now people complain about more judging but the kind that happens behind closed doors and not on the ice.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The CAS had already ruled on protecting Valieva from irreparable harm.

Except they didn't? Does anyone really believe Kamila wasn't harmed? Her last words through floods of tears "At least they can hold the medal ceremony"? That was so sad she was made to feel like her winning would be the most horrible outcome. Maybe she really did throw the FS...she's not a monster...she wouldn't want others to lose their moment for her sake.

In all seriousness does CAS always make such terrible decisions? Who runs that thing?

 

[4everchan]

Except they didn't? Does anyone really believe Kamila wasn't harmed? Her last words through floods of tears "At least they can hold the medal ceremony"? That was so sad she was made to feel like her winning would be the most horrible outcome. Maybe she really did throw the FS...she's not a monster...she wouldn't want others to lose their moment for her sake.

In all seriousness does CAS always make such terrible decisions? Who runs that thing?

Well, there is a whole thread about this which you have read about I know. Did CAS ruling was the right one? I don't believe it was.Personally, the right ruling was to send Kamila home as far away of the circus as soon as the test came back positive.

All I am saying here though is that since they ruled that way, they cannot change their mind suddenly... This is truly a tragedy but in the end, there is very rarely a good outcome when an athlete tests positive. Even those who are exonerated later on lost so much... that's why people cannot mess around when it comes to doping... everyone was saying "do not get covid... do not get covid" and that's something that can happen, that is very hard to prevent : viruses will spread... but "do not get tested positive" that is something an athlete should have control over and it should be emphasized.

 

[4everchan]

Unfortunately the issue is that Valieva participated and there's a potential that she will be disqualified. And the team event for figure skating is really new, so do they even have rules for this type of situation?

Potential scenarios:

1. Like do they just DQ Valieva and adjust ROC's points accordingly? If they do that then ROC would drop to third place with 54 points.
2. Do they DQ Valieva but then move everyone else up a spot, which would put Canada in third.
3. Or do they DQ the entire ROC team like its a track relay?

Scenario 3 to me is the most unfair way to address the situation - a track relay is different in that the time is cumulative.

Ironically ROC would be in a better situation for scenario 1 and 2 had they substituted in Shcherbakova or Trusova for the FS because then either scenario would be just impacting the SP and it would be swapping the gold and silver position or potentially needing to tie-break between Japan and ROC for the silver and bronze.

I am not convinced that your scenario 3 is more unfair. I see the team event just the same way as any other team event in other sports. Of course, in a track relay, the racers add their times to make one race. Fair enough. If an athlete is DQed (and it's not always doping, it could be for stepping outside their lane) then the whole team is DQed, which erases the times of all other racers. In figure skating, the ISU chose the option of a ranking points system to keep the parity of the disciplines in a team event aimed at rewarding overall excellence around 4 disciplines. It could not opt for a cumulative scoring system because that minimizes the impact of pairs and dance discipline that tend to score tighter among the top 5, while it is not uncommon to have single skaters score much higher than the next competitor. These games have shown this very well.

If a sanction is given to Kamila which equals to a disqualification from the Olympic games, her results should not show up as 0 for the team event but as DQ. Like in relay teams, all players need to cross the finish line to get an award.

If the ISU wants to retain any credibility, being consistent with other sports from the Olympic family, they cannot give a pass to the ROC team here and allow them a final score in the team event no matter where that would make them finish. Next to the entry, there should be only a DQ written. This is what has been done elsewhere and it would be an insult to other athletes who have had to return medals because one of their team members ended up testing positive in other games. It may sound unfair to the other ROC skaters, but there is no better solution. The ISU also needs to send a clear message that no doping will be allowed in figure skating. It doesn't matter that ROC had other skaters who could have replaced the athlete. It doesn't matter that they could have won the race with only 3 runners... i mean some track relay teams may be stronger if only 3 out of 4 athletes were to run

We can agree to disagree on this but I have been thinking a lot about this for the last few days, and I considered many options and that's the one I am going to stick with... we will see what happens in the end.

 

[ManyCairns]

Well, there is a whole thread about this which you have read about I know. Did CAS ruling was the right one? I don't believe it was.Personally, the right ruling was to send Kamila home as far away of the circus as soon as the test came back positive.

All I am saying here though is that since they ruled that way, they cannot change their mind suddenly... This is truly a tragedy but in the end, there is very rarely a good outcome when an athlete tests positive. Even those who are exonerated later on lost so much... that's why people cannot mess around when it comes to doping... everyone was saying "do not get covid... do not get covid" and that's something that can happen, that is very hard to prevent : viruses will spread... but "do not get tested positive" that is something an athlete should have control over and it should be emphasized.

Agree very much that once the ruling was made, it would be chaotic and undermining to have a medal ceremony. (Just who cooked this appeal up, anyway? I read what the document says, just wondering if there was any U.S. federation support for it?? A rhetorical question, with various implications if the answer is yes or the answer is no.) Frankly, this is not a hill I would have chosen to die on, though I absolutely understand that is was very hard, even devastating for some, not to have a medal ceremony. The focus imo should be on the doping case.