Coaches' Corner

[surimi]

Yeah no it isn't right for anyone throwing hate at Daniel. He's a nice person, and a good figure skater. But seriously, what is he going to get from Eteri anyway? He already knows how to jump quads

Perhaps it's consistency in jumps and higher GoE for jumps and spins that he's after. Not that it has worked for Eteri's men so far, with the exception of Morisi for a short time, but my bet would be that Grassl is looking for consistency. That said, I hope he's still careful with the training regimen to avoid injury.

 

[esteticlove]

Yeah, right: blame the skater and her mother. Eteri's word is law in that camp. If she had put her foot down, does anyone really think that Dasha would have taken the ice?

It is very good that you copied the important part, now read the last sentence of your quote. She knows that she could put her foot down, as you tell, but she didn't and realizes that exactly this wasn't the best call to make. I think you are imagining Tutberidze holding a gun against Usachevas head and threatening her to go and compete, but it is not how this team works.

 

[icewhite]

I don't even have that much of a problem with Eteri Tutberidze. She's a narcissist, well, people like her exist. It is the people who support this who are the problem for me. Her fans are fans of the exploitation of underage girls.
I am aware that she is not the only one in figure skating behaving like that, otherwise she'd be an outcast, would not have been voted coach of the year, people like Grassl wouldn't want to go there. She's probably just the most open with that behaviour.
Right now she doesn't play a role on the international scene, but if figure skating wants to have a future it needs to move on from this behaviour in general which is admired by some, but the reason it's considered a freak circus show by many others.

 

[skatedreamer]

It is very good that you copied the important part, now read the last sentence of your quote. She knows that she could put her foot down, as you tell, but she didn't and realizes that exactly this wasn't the best call to make. I think you are imagining Tutberidze holding a gun against Usachevas head and threatening her to go and compete, but it is not how this team works.

Holding a gun to her head? Please. I'm not imagining anything of the sort.

I am saying that if Tutberidze truly had her skaters' best interests at heart -- especially their health -- she would not have permitted Dasha to skate. She also would have articulated her reasons for the decision while acknowledging Dasha's disappointment with sympathy and kindness. If Dasha wanted to skate, no one could blame her. However, no matter how much a skater wants to perform, it's up to their coach to prevent them from doing so if the performance would pose a risk to the skater's long-term career. Any coach at Eteri's level knows that full well. It's hard to understand why there was even a question in her mind.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Perhaps it's consistency in jumps and higher GoE for jumps and spins that he's after.

I don't see Daniel achieving this, unless by some miracle, he cleans up his technique, including entry, air position, and exit (jump landing). Again, Eteri is not known for teaching proper technique. What's the point of exhaustive reps, if you are repeating improper technique throughout the jump trajectory? Even Morisi has a messiness to his jumping, along with a pedestrian, plodding effect.

The politics of being coached by a perceived 'successful' coaching crew is one thing. But then again, what are the current perceptions of Eteri & Co. within the sport at this stage? I wonder. Sure, maybe TPTB will again sweep everything under the rug and continue with the same business as usual, but that remains to be seen.

The main thing Eteri seems to instill is desperate desire and blinding belief. While having belief is important, such belief should be grounded in visible reality, and recognition of when one's body is breaking down and needs care and attention. Proper training techniques need to be implemented, along with dedication and confidence. No shortcuts allowed. Coaches need to care about their charges as people first, and athletes second. Skaters should not be viewed as notches on the belt of one's ascending reputation. What goes up, tends to come down. Steadiness, fairness, and balance should be the keystones.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm just glad that a lot of good exists in the world, among all people. And that by good people joining together for the benefit of all, war, evil, and propaganda can be overcome by love, truth and goodwill. Praying for peace.

[For clarity, please note that my above comments are in response to a post by @DoubleBass, which has since been deleted, in which DoubleBass brought up 'propaganda' claims. I did not initiate the topic of, or use the word, 'propaganda,' in any of my previous posts in this thread.]

 

[DoubleBass]

Even suggesting that Daria pains might be phantom pain, something in her head, and that is the reason she can´t jump.... Wow, putting the blame on Daria for ending the single career, so cruel This is just so incredible sad, I enjoyed Darias skating so much, she was excellent without ultra-c elements.

Did you even read the article? Eteri was the one who was against the idea of Daria going to Japan in the first place, it was her mother and Daria herself who insisted on going. How are you going to blame Eteri for this lmao? Also phantom pains are a well documented phenomenon, if you read the article, doctors (including German doctors that they visited) don't see any reason for her leg to hurt, that it has healed properly, to yet it does, a placebo effect can certainly play a role here when she tries jumping, or it can be something else, she's just making an assumption while clearly stating that she's not a doctor

 

[alexocfp]

Eteri speaks and the figure skating community goes into a frenzy. She still got it, stirring up the emotions of the readers. In an interview that isn’t even in English.

I’m not going to rehash my opinions because people are bored to tears with them at this point.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm not proselytizing for one truth over another. There is such a thing as caring for each other on a human level. And there is genuine truth and beauty in love, as opposed to aggression and yes, propaganda. Believe in what you choose to see. And bring up whichever medieval examples suit your viewpoints.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I’m not going to rehash my opinions because people are bored to tears with them at this point.

From your mouth to God's ears. I'm not sure this is the case, but time will tell.

 

[brakes]

LOL! Yep focus only on what you think are the positives.

I didn't say these girls reminding Roman gladiators is positive or not, just brought up the comparison.
I don't feel morally obliged to judge Eteri Tutberidze or Russian figure skating, because honestly I don't care.

Every single day, there are thousands of children in every corner of this world dying/getting ill/being hurt/sold/abused against their will and with no chance to escape their fate. Focusing my internal moral compass on some Russian girls chasing their dreams in sports seems false and indecent in that context.

 

[DoubleBass]

I'm not proselytizing for one truth over another. There is such a thing as caring for each other on a human level. And there is genuine truth and beauty in love, as opposed to aggression and yes, propaganda. Believe in what you choose to see. And bring up whichever medieval examples suit your viewpoints.

I'm with you on this one. Love is what truly binds us all on a much deeper level where the ego cannot reach.

But experience has taught me that usually those who go around pointing fingers at others, loudly calling them names, are exactly that or on their way of becoming, what they are claiming others to be.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

those who go around pointing fingers at others, loudly calling them names, are exactly that or on their way of becoming, what they are claiming others to be.

In my estimation, this is very true x 1,000. Sometimes we all need to take a good long look in the mirror. I always remind myself to do that. Clearly, no human is perfect. Owning up to mistakes with transparency and genuine repentance though, is likely a rarity.

On the topic of Eteri, I am not projecting, nor fingerpointing, but simply relying on my observations, knowledge and experience to tell it as I see it. I think what happened at the Olympics needs to be fully unraveled, without subterfuge. Coaches who have success, no matter where they are from, they should not be lionized while legitimate complaints about their training practices go ignored and downplayed. It's not about the teaching of poor technique, it's about much more serious manipulation and harm. If Eteri has nothing to hide, okay, then I hope that is proven.

As I said, you can see it as you see it. Or not see whatever. To each their own.

 

[JimR]

Eteri was measured and reasonable throughout this interview, but I'm sure people will find a way to twist her words and pour mud.

Clearly Eteri not to blame for Daria's injuries it was herself and her mother desperate for Olympic selection who pushed for this. To say these are possibly now 'phantom pains' is completely reasonable Daria might have some kind of mental block now when it comes to jumping.

Maya's injury was incredibly bad luck.

Figure skating has a lot of injuries. Look at the number of Japanese skaters with stress fractures or chronic back problems, 15 year old Levito forced out of Four Continents, 16 year old Alyssa Liu retiring. It's a worldwide phenomenon. Eteri skaters do retire early but there are only 3 slots for international selection (will be one now I imagine). Zagitova could still be competing and having international starts if in a weak fed like the US, but in Russia she was already surpassed by other girls 4 years ago. When you climb the top of the summit it's hard to be motivated for domestic starts and finishing 7th or 8th at Nationals when you've won everything else.

Plus there's a rate of attrition in all sports where only the very best make a long career out of it. The average professional career in most sports is only a few years, and that's those who make it professionally. They start their careers at 18 or 21, not 14 or 15. Plenty get chewed up to reach that point.

Eteri's an intriguing personality and clearly knows how to get the best out of skaters. There is no-one that comes close. If Adelia and Kamila went to worlds this year they would have both made the podium along with Tuktik. In a domestic season where her teenage skaters are banned from competing outside of their homeland because of their nationality, her skaters still have high motivation, skating at the highest level on the planet, her skaters are adding complexity to their programs pushing the sport further.

Kamila's positive test is just a positive test. Does not mean she is guilty of doping, does not mean Eteri doped her, does not indicate there is some kind of doping ring in Russian skating. It's one single positive test that could have come about from contamination, accidental ingestion, maybe sabotage for all we know.

People should save the vitriol and judgements until we have all the facts laid out in front of us.

Eteri's results this season just goes to prove her skaters have always been clean. Kamila has the best quad in the world, Akatieva skates a free program with two quad toes, two triple axels, Adelia has a triple axel, quad toe, quad flip.

Eteri would never be able to set foot on US soil again, never visit her daughter if she was involved in what some people are alleging.

 

[yume]

I don't even have that much of a problem with Eteri Tutberidze. She's a narcissist, well, people like her exist. It is the people who support this who are the problem for me. Her fans are fans of the exploitation of underage girls.
I am aware that she is not the only one in figure skating behaving like that, otherwise she'd be an outcast, would not have been voted coach of the year, people like Grassl wouldn't want to go there. She's probably just the most open with that behaviour.
Right now she doesn't play a role on the international scene, but if figure skating wants to have a future it needs to move on from this behaviour in general which is admired by some, but the reason it's considered a freak circus show by many others.

I think most people are more fans of her skaters than herself. She can realize that life is short, decide to retire from coaching and travel around the world, people wouldn't care less as long as her skaters are still relevant. I think that as some people can't separate the skaters from the coach and unapologetically bash them at any given occasion, other people can't defend their fave skaters without defending the coach.

 

[icewhite]

I think most people are more fans of her skaters than herself. She can realize that life is short, decide to retire from coaching and travel around the world, people wouldn't care less as long as her skaters are still relevant. I think that as some people can't separate the skaters from the coach and unapologetically bash them at any given occasion, other people can't defend their fave skaters without defending the coach.

Well, of course there are different kinds of fans. But when I mean Eteri fans, those fans are usually not so much fans of the individual girls. They are totally fine with the skaters being done at 18 and move on to the next girls. If a girl is not able to compete any longer before a big result (because of broken bones, eating disorders, mental exhaustion or a changed body) they repeat Eteri's lines: the girl is too lazy, too fat, the parents are bad, girl never had it, body too weak blabla. It's never Eteri's fault in their mind, just like it never is in Eteri's.
If they had any compassion and interest in the girls themselves they would react differently. But they are willing to throw them into the trash bin like Eteri. Exemptions are girls who became Olympic winners or such, who "made it". These fans are fans of success, not of the girls. ((Oh, and some also have a weird attraction to teenage girls, but that's an entirely different topic.))

(I have no interest in bashing the underage girls themselves, apart from calling someone who in my eyes is overscored overscored, but I do that with everyone and I hope I am doing it in a rational, non-personal way.)

 

[macy]

regarding Daria, i think this quote below speaks for itself. the fact Eteri still let her go despite Daria not even training until the SIX MINUTE WARMUP is absurd. she knew how bad this injury was, and if she really had Daria's best interest at heart, she would not have let her even go to the airport (gosh, what a similar ring that has to it from another one of her skaters at the Olympics). instead, her career is now over.

I was categorically against going to this start, because it seemed to me visually through her movements that the pain intensified. In this conversation, Dasha's mother insisted on her participation, and Daria herself cried and asked to leave her a chance and not take off from the start. Her main argument was that the doctors would be there, that she would try to take care. She didn't even train until that first six-minute warm-up.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Figure skating has a lot of injuries. Look at the number of Japanese skaters with stress fractures or chronic back problems, 15 year old Levito forced out of Four Continents, 16 year old Alyssa Liu retiring.

People should save the vitriol and judgements until we have all the facts laid out in front of us.

Par for the course to try and absolve Eteri of anything and everything by conflating and equating other skaters and situations in the sport, which are separate from the topics under discussion surrounding Eteri's recent interview.

As far as all the facts ever being thoroughly investigated and clearly laid out publicly, that hasn't happened and it's questionable whether it will ever happen. The level of denial and subterfuge by Russian fed, other agencies, and involved individuals, prevents the possibility of that outcome.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Zagitova could still be competing and having international starts if in a weak fed like the US ... Plus, there's a rate of attrition in all sports ...

!? Zagitova was lucky to come back after winning the Olympics prematurely. When she came back, it was a struggle due to having grown. She had poor, labored crossovers and other issues which took time for her to fully overcome. While her crossover technique never improved, she did manage through hard work and determination, plus help from the judges, to finally win a World championship, and then she retired.

LOL! I seriously doubt Zagitova would still be competing internationally if she was a U.S. competitor. Making up such a hypothetical is nonsensical to begin with. And btw, the U.S. ladies field continues to have a great deal of depth and talent, even despite the Japanese, South Korean, and formerly, the Russian ladies, dominating at the very top in recent years. It's pretty lame and inaccurate to call the U.S. ladies field 'weak,' because they don't dominate as in past years.

The U.S. ladies discipline is still one of the strongest and most competitive in the world. Throughout the history of figure skating many medal results have been inextricably involved with politics and perception, not just skaters' performances. This is particularly the case in recent times, due to the depth of ability and equivalent talent globally. Suffice to say that U.S. ladies competitors were so dominate from the 1950s forward, that the U.S. ladies discipline continues to hold the record for the most medals won at Worlds (26 gold; 22 silver; 25 bronze) and Olympics (7 gold; 8 silver; 8 bronze). This is the case, despite the fact that U.S. ladies were shut out of the Worlds podium from 2007 to 2015, and they have not medaled in singles at the Olympics since Sasha Cohen's silver medal in 2006.

It's a real question which country will eventually break the U.S. ladies' dominant medal total records. The battle most likely will ultimately be won by either Japan or South Korea (but it will take awhile). Russia has a shot only if they eventually come back and rules are enforced, monitored and adhered to.

Eteri's results this season just goes to prove her skaters have always been clean.

Eteri's an intriguing personality and clearly knows how to get the best out of skaters. There is no-one that comes close.

For sure, Eteri has an intriguing personality. That's an understatement. She certainly has abilities as a coach too, without question. There are questions though, such as: "At what cost?" As far as your blanket statement, "... no-one comes close," I am not sure what you mean by that. There are clearly many wonderful, and legendary figure skating coaches. Plus, I don't see any need to compare them and to declare who is best. In my opinion though, Eteri does not come close to being in the same company with legendary coaches such as Maribel Vinson Owen, John Nicks, Frank Carroll, Gus Lussi, Carlo Fassi, Alexei Mishin, and Tamara Moskvina. There are plenty more Eteri doesn't match up to either, IMHO. But as I said, the value of a coach is not about comparing their worth and achievements against other coaches.

 

[alexocfp]

From your mouth to God's ears. I'm not sure this is the case, but time will tell.

I haven’t mentioned her much this year. And at this point, it’s just beating a dead horse.

Her detractors just want to hear that she is a living, soulless devil 24/7/365. Which means her supporters just dig in more, which means there is no starting point to have a good conversation.

The debate would be a lot better if she wasn’t being blamed for things she didn’t even do or wasn’t involved in.