2023 World Figure Skating Championships Men's Free Skate

[moonvine]

What, why? All of them were brilliant in their own way. In fact, the whole men's free was stunning, the last group the cherry on top.

Because Keegan made mistakes. I can’t say he was robbed, because he made them. But I wanted him to win a medal more than I’ve wanted anything in awhile.

 

[moonvine]

But there is zero guarantee that 'putting work' into PCS will increase PCS. No amount of work can increase what’s already there significantly, just like no amount of work can make Brown jump quads.

However, it will guarantee drop in technical part. Because to jump quads, one must train quads. I dunno why people keep treating jumps as easy or lazy or something. But stability Ilya has is drilled in by hours and huge effort.

Ilya with 6 quads and 4A is a marvel. Ilya with 4 quads and tiny but better PCS will be indistinguishable from that to the panels like we had in Japan. If he goes to 3 quads, he will be like 6th this year, because of the incomparable Mr. Brown and the guys with 1 or 2 quads who already score so high in PCS--and will continue to do so no matter what Ilya does. And he will then also face challenges from other 2 quad guys too if they manage to go clean (even Vasiljevs did on that one occasion). All the Japanese, both present and absent, will be in this category.

With this crazy layout, Ilya is special and has far better chance to medal. That same Cha has under-rotations and falls most of his skates. Ilya will never beat Uno, because one has to be born into it to skate like Uno. Yes, Ilya is American, so it helps, but if his number of quads is too close to average, he will be a top 10 skater, not a podium contender

I don’t think jumps are easy or lazy. I do fear overtraining them can lead to injury.

 

[moonvine]

Agreed; aside from anything else, US hopes of keeping 3 women’s spots were based almost entirely on her. That’s a ridiculously heavy burden for 16-year old shoulders. She’s a talented and sensitive young woman and needs to be allowed to develop in her own time.

It is Alyssa all over again. I’ve been saying this and I’m sure everyone thinks I am crotchety old lady. Winning Nationals at such a young age is probably the worst thing that could have happened to her. People immediately started anointing her as America’s last best hope. Same with Isabeau. Same with young girl who comes after Isabeau.

 

[moonvine]

Really, we won medals and kept three spots in three out of four disciplines, so it was a good Worlds for the USA. I think American skating is in oblivion only in the sense that the general public doesn't know it's alive. But that's been going on pretty much its whole history, except for Dorothy Hamill, Nancy and Tonya, Michelle Kwan, and What Would Brian Boitano Do? Boston will be a good chance for us to show that we can be just as great a Worlds audience as Saitama was.

When Belinda was complimenting the audience for having all the flags, and she said something like they take one country’s flag out of their bag and then get the next country’s flag out of their bag..I was like yep that’s me.

 

[4everchan]

It is Alyssa all over again. I’ve been saying this and I’m sure everyone thinks I am crotchety old lady. Winning Nationals at such a young age is probably the worst thing that could have happened to her. People immediately started anointing her as America’s last best hope. Same with Isabeau. Same with young girl who comes after Isabeau.

I liked your post because I feel the same about the pressure put on the young athletes (so don't think i think you are a crotchety old lady LOL...
I remember when young Gracie started getting noticed and the commentators were saying she had the perfect name for a figure skater... I rolled my eyes instantly...

 

[moonvine]

Good idea to start saving now, Jeanie. I want to make a full week of it - practices and everything - and just once in my life spring for the really good seats. And bring all the flags to wave. Boston, here we come!

If this is the same as last Worlds in Boston you will need a special pass to get into practices ..they called it a golden ticket.

 

[Charlotte 71]

If this is the same as last Worlds in Boston you will need a special pass to get into practices ..they called it a golden ticket.

Golden ticket? Well, if I have to eat a lot of chocolate to find one, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

 

[lady_bee]

Good morning. My days in Saitama is almost over and I am exsausted because of excitment of last night.
With my one of little finger broken, I shouldn't crap, but I can't help crapping especially during last group.

Jason and Shoma were only two who changed the atmosphere when music starts.
Kevin was a different type of artists from Jason so we enjoyed his performance and K/C reaction which made us happy.
Junhwan made Korean girls who ware sitting behind me so excited and i was happy for them.
Ilia wasn't his best and his ice coverage was smaller than those big boys; however, his 4A was so AMAZING that I almost mistook it was 3A He is so young and promising.
And Keegan, he looked emotional from the beginning; therefore, I feel bit sorry to cheer so much before he started. Still I hope he felt how much we love him.

It was a great competition and I won’t regret if the little finger broke again.

By the way,
Is there anyone who wants souvenir for premium seat?
I have one extra and want to give it to someone who came long way from overseas to Saitama.
It is a folding cushion with this world’s illustration on it. You can receive it at the venue maybe before GALA starts.

Edit: So much typo. I am sorry because I was so excited.

 

[skatedreamer]

I liked your post because I feel the same about the pressure put on the young athletes (so don't think i think you are a crotchety old lady LOL...
I remember when young Gracie started getting noticed and the commentators were saying she had the perfect name for a figure skater... I rolled my eyes instantly...

And look how that turned out…

#crotchetyoldlady2

 

[Jammers]

So is Raf Ilia's coach now along with his dad? If so look what he did to take Nathen from just a jumping bean to an all around skater. But Ilia has to make the move also the fact that he said he might cut back on the quads and work on other things tells me he gets what he needs to eventually win in the future.

 

[skatedreamer]

It is Alyssa all over again. I’ve been saying this and I’m sure everyone thinks I am crotchety old lady. Winning Nationals at such a young age is probably the worst thing that could have happened to her. People immediately started anointing her as America’s last best hope. Same with Isabeau. Same with young girl who comes after Isabeau.

Right? Sometimes we skating fans can be almost as bad as the crazed parents who start pushing their kids to get into Ivy League schools from the moment they’re born. Enough already.

And if you’re a crotchety old lady (hereinafter “COL”), I probably am one, too.

From one COL to another, !

#solidarity

 

[4everchan]

So is Raf Ilia's coach now along with his dad? If so look what he did to take Nathen from just a jumping bean to an all around skater. But Ilia has to make the move also the fact that he said he might cut back on the quads and work on other things tells me he gets what he needs to eventually win in the future.

Nathan was never just a jumping bean.... that's just false.

 

[el henry]

Nathan was never just a jumping bean.... that's just false.

He may not have ever been "just a jumping bean".

But his performance and skating skills did grow by leaps and bounds from his first senior season. I challenge you to sit through his LP to Saint-Saëns in 2016 (?). I love the organ concerto and I nearly fell asleep.

Now, was Rafael A. the one responsible for renewed attention to performance? I am not a big fan, so I would argue not. But Nathan did improve. Ilia can improve. He needs to want to do that, and take steps to do that.

 

[GGFan]

He may not have ever been "just a jumping bean".

But his performance and skating skills did grow by leaps and bounds from his first senior season. I challenge you to sit through his LP to Saint-Saëns in 2016 (?). I love the organ concerto and I nearly fell asleep.

Now, was Rafael A. the one responsible for renewed attention to performance? I am not a big fan, so I would argue not. But Nathan did improve. Ilia can improve. He needs to want to do that, and take steps to do that.

Nathan is a complex case in the sense that he was musical and artistically gifted as a novice and then regressed in his late junior early senior days as he was upping his content. 2016 was probably the worst of that.

However, he was savvy about what he was missing when comparing himself to Patrick, Yuzu, and Javier. That 2017 season he got Marina and Massimo Scali to help him. That Le Corsaire short that he did was a big step in the right direction. Then the next season he worked with Shae-Lynn (who stayed with him throughout his career) and Lori. He then did some work with the IAM folks on Rocketman. In the Olympic season he went back to Scali to ensure that he was hitting his musical highlights.

I do not think Raf had anything to do with that. The good thing about the men being a little older than the women (at least until the rule change) is that they can take charge of their careers. Hopefully Ilia will make wise choices.

 

[Kris135]

I took this bit only... because I have the feeling that we are not watching the same sport.... since when is American skating in oblivion??? Who was the last man to win Olympic gold? Seriously.... THe USA skaters do not need to win every single year at every single competition. When some of the US fans accept that, it will be much better.

Why I stated what I did is look at the position of US skating in United States. First off the coverage by NBC/Peacock which has been nothing short of horrible. If a person does not have Peacock or cable the only chance that some will be able to watch the world Championships is the two hour segment that is going on right about now on a Saturday evening where the fewest number people will be home to see it or to find it. Second is state of elite skating in America. Our team basically got only 3 medals. Two of them the gold in ice dance and the silver in pair were basically taken by two teams that are very likely to retire after the season is over and outside of the second pair team who I think was 4 or 5th there is no chance for the others to medal any time soon unless a lot retirements happen which I wouldn't count on. Then there women division which has had nothing short a disasterious result at this world championship. Isabeau who got fourth which was not a major problem, we had the top women in the US lower than this, but the others two dear god one was 12th the other 16 or 18th I think which I think I had been one of the worst showings in recent memory. Many are very worried about Isabeau jump technique as she grows and matures that it will fail and after her there very little in pipeline of development left because outside of Ava , Lindsey, and Josephine Lee and couple junior skated that may be able to move up to senior level the rest of the top US women are in their mid to late 20's and who knows how long they will be in the competitive ranks. Then the US men who basically the only US discipline that is basically healthy led by 18 year old Ilia. Ilia won the bronze medal the best result by individual in this year's worlds. The men also had Jason Brown who was in Olympics last year and Andrew. Basically all them did their job to keep 3 US men spots. Andrew made the free skate,which considered that he had not competed internationally for 2 years was great, Jason was 5th and Ilia was third. The men in the US basically have good pipeline of development. A lot of the men are in their early 20's and several younger are starting to process of moving up to senior level and Lucas Broussard who still in juniors but in next two years will move up and most likely rise right to top level of US men.

Why I said obivion is that next year Ilia may be the only major American Skater left and only national champion left standing at the beginning of next season. He is going to have to carry a huge burden upon his back of keeping United States skating relevant internationally going into both a home worlds and the 2026 Olympics which the pressure will intense from both the USFS and NBC to bring home the medals especially the Gold Medal in 2026. All of the hype, the noise, and the spotlight will be on him. At that point skating may be least of his problems. I am afraid that he might crack under the pressure.Nathan cracked in 2018 but he wan't the only relevant US skater there either. The US ladies were not great but I do not think any of them were as low as this year, pairs were their and the US wonr a bronze in both the ice dance and team event. In 2026 Ilia will most likely be the leader of the figure skaters of team USA. One of the favorites to win gold. I hope that he can handle it because it going so much pressure on him to proform. This hopefully changes if Nathan Chen come back but I would not bet on it. So here we are. The main standard bearer of US FIgure skating is an 18 year old young man who has deal with all of this along with just plain skating

I am angry that we have arrived at this point. The USFS should have been more prepared for this. They could have put money into development and supporting the skaters coming through the ranks but no we kept propping up aging champions and praying that that the leaders would not retire and now of all of chickens have come to roost because the talent well has run dry in most cases and USFS has no one to blame but themselves for it.

 

[chz]

I love Ilya the way he is

he has potential to be a complete skater, that i'm sure. he just need to tone down a bit on the jumps. just a bit, not too much.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I agree. People seem to think Malinin is arrogant, and I don't see it. I see a young guy who is hungry to win but has pretty good manners.

I agree with you. I follow him on Instagram and have always found him to be a good sport with good manners.

I don't see anything arrogant or wild about him either. Just someone who knows what he can achieve and is excited and very enthusiastic about it.

I'm also old enough to be his mother and I'm crabby so it's not like I'm more easy going about my assessment of him.

 

[4everchan]

Nathan is a complex case in the sense that he was musical and artistically gifted as a novice and then regressed in his late junior early senior days as he was upping his content. 2016 was probably the worst of that.

However, he was savvy about what he was missing when comparing himself to Patrick, Yuzu, and Javier. That 2017 season he got Marina and Massimo Scali to help him. That Le Corsaire short that he did was a big step in the right direction. Then the next season he worked with Shae-Lynn (who stayed with him throughout his career) and Lori. He then did some work with the IAM folks on Rocketman. In the Olympic season he went back to Scali to ensure that he was hitting his musical highlights.

I do not think Raf had anything to do with that. The good thing about the men being a little older than the women (at least until the rule change) is that they can take charge of their careers. Hopefully Ilia will make wise choices.

Yup... thank you for replying with such detail to @el henry . Nathan and Ilia have very different trajectories. Ilia may decide or not to pursue higher artistic goals. I hope he does it because he wants to be a better skater and values that aspect of skating rather than to get higher marks. Le Corsaire is exactly what made me answer that Nathan was not just a jumping bean...already, at a young age, there was a care for line, position and musicality... which allowed for futher development. Re the saint saens, i personally dislike his music so I wonder if i would be angrier at nathan or at camille here if i were to revisit that program

 

[4everchan]

Whole post

The sport goes in cycle. A year after the Olympics that were quite successful for American skaters is bound to give such results...As you mentioned, the gold and silver were taken by veterans...

Look back to 2018... Canada did amazingly well at the Olympics... with a gold in the team event and medals in 3 of the 4 disciplines... ALL of these people retired... and since then, medals have been rare.. couple bronzes here and there at WC ... but no medals were won at the 2022 games... Some posters have been very pessimistic to say the least about the sport in Canada... yet, at the National level, things have never been as deep (perhaps except in men).... Ice dance is phenomenal, even from the novice level... Pairs, the top 5 at nationals was so exciting.. any of these teams would have represented Canada favorably at these worlds... the 3 teams who were selected were at their first worlds (in the current partnerships) and placed 4th-6th and 11th... For me, that is AMAZING and positive... no medal... yet WOW ! It's a question of focus. Our younger women used to struggle with jumps and now most of them master the 3-3 combos. Is it bringing results now? No... maybe not even in 2026 but the sport is alive and very much so. The focus on results ie medals is probably exactly what is not helping figure skating in some part of the world.... Focusing on excellent skating and development is much healthier. This is what allows for longer careers and success stories. American figure skating, according to your opinion, may well be at a low point (i won't judge on that because I don't follow US Nationals) but if the focus is on development, then it will thrive again when the time is right.

 

[cailuj365]

Forgive me for joining in the Ilia needs to work on PCS conversation.

He should learn how to skate beautifully. This is what is missing for me. I don't see beautiful skating.

I don't think Ilia will ever be what we think of as a "beautiful" skater, but he has other strengths. He adds variety to the current group of men, filling a technical void after Nathan left and adding more with the 4A. Didn't he once have an instagram story where they asked him what was his biggest regret, and it was something like, "Thinking I have skating skills." LOL, at least the kid is aware.

In any case, I would hate for Ilia to try to conform to some subjective standard of "beautiful" skating, only for him to lose what's currently unique about him - this brash, youthful style with YOLO attitude going for all the crazy jumps that no one has been able to do, including 4A and 3Lz-3A (with a rippon on the 3A!). He has been such a fresh face and really shook up the men's discipline in a different way this year. I bought a ticket to this year's Nationals not to see Jason Brown, though he's fabulous, but for a chance to see Ilia's 4A. It didn't happen, but the 3Lz-3A-3T made up for it. I guess we all have our reasons for watching skating...

He has glaring weaknesses, yes, but I'd like to see how he tries to improve. Maybe he never gets to this "beautiful" skating 90+ point PCS ideal, but he still has something to offer in this sport, and I think he deserves his bronze medal, especially after his short program and the 4A.

Personally, I think he still has a lot to improve technically, such as cleaning up the q's and the UR calls on his current quads, and becoming more consistent over both programs. If that means having to take out 1 or 2 quads to give him more strength during his other quads while also adding in more steps, transitions, and choreography, I think we all win.