USFS has broken my heart

[4everchan]

The way that they stream also does not help terribly much...any word about replays? I think accessibility of watching online could certainly help with the viewership.

Though the features of the battles of whoever and the fluff pieces can go...it gives it a fake feeling to me.

you gotta give some cheese sauce to the kids before they eat their veggies. that's how i see the fluff pieces. I don't watch them anymore, but it certainly got me intrigued when I first discovered the sport. Fluff pieces are not just battle of brians or carmens... it's all these games skaters play as well. They do it in tennis as well (just watched davis cup and they were asking, who has the best backhand, who has the best taste in music, what is your partner's favourite food etc) Skate Canada and USFS have done these fluff pieces. There are also "biographical" fluff pieces... they make the athletes and the sport " human. It's all good. If it makes it fake for an already acquired fan, that fan will skip the fluff and just watch the competition, just like i skip galas nowadays but focus on the competitive skating itself. But for new fans, they need something fun sometimes to get converted

 

[cheerknithanson]

you gotta give some cheese sauce to the kid before they eat their veggies. that's how i see the fluff pieces. I don't watch them anymore, but it certainly got me intrigued when I first discovered the sport. Fluff pieces are not just battle of brians or carmens... it's all these games skaters play as well. They do it in tennis as well (just watched davis cup and they were asking, who has the best backhand, who has the best taste in music, what is your partner's favourite food etc) Skate Canada and USFS have done these fluff pieces. There are also "biographical" fluff pieces... they make the athletes and the sport " human. It's all good. If it makes it fake for an already acquired fan, that fan will skip the fluff and just watch the competition, just like i skip galas nowadays but focus on the competitive skating itself. But for new fans, they need something fun sometimes to get converted

Cheese sauce never fooled me. I could tell there would be veggies in there. Just like putting peas in spaghetti.

I did like hearing factoids early on when I REALLY started getting into watching skating during the 2014 Olympics. I did find the fluff piece of V/M and M/D being coached both by Marina to be interesting.

 

[moonvine]

Cheese sauce never fooled me. I could tell there would be veggies in there. Just like putting peas in spaghetti.

I did like hearing factoids early on when I REALLY started getting into watching skating during the 2014 Olympics. I did find the fluff piece of V/M and M/D being coached both by Marina to be interesting.

I love hearing factoids from Ted on JGP.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I love hearing factoids from Ted on JGP.

Those are great. And I love he tries to lift all of the skaters up. I swear if I have the opportunity to get a picture with him, I would.

 

[el henry]

I *looooovvveee* Up Close and Personal fluff. I loved it on ABC 45 (?) years ago, I love it now.

I do NOT love the tech box. Booooo tech box. But others love it.


That is exactly why both the tech box and fluff are needed. Throw everything out there, since (duh) we won't all like the same things.

And why keeping the FOFS breakfast, or meet and greet, or whatever, is important. If even just some people love it, why take it away or make it prohibitively expensive?

 

[moonvine]

Those are great. And I love he tries to lift all of the skaters up. I swear if I have the opportunity to get a picture with him, I would.

I think a bunch of people threw stuffed fish onto the ice for him once. I was not there so maybe someone else can tell that story.

 

[moonvine]

And why keeping the FOFS breakfast, or meet and greet, or whatever, is important. If even just some people love it, why take it away or make it prohibitively expensive?

The only reason I could possibly think to do it would be if there were more people than the space would allow for.

Last year in the Boitano Lounge it was MAYBE 1/4 full. This event is on Sunday morning. It is not like large groups of non skating people are clamoring to use meeting spaces during this time.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

USFS won't even keep up streams they do on peacock anymore, I mean, asking them to do an online stream is like pulling teeth at this point. And that's sad.

We also have to blame the "new" scoring system on losing fans and not gaining many more. It's hard enough for die-hard fans to understand the scoring, so how do you think newbies feel? If they have to do all this math and looking into "complicated" things to enjoy a sport they just won't and they aren't. The 6.0 system was so much easier, but fraud judges had to ruin that in 2002.

ETA: I was already skating when I saw Torvill and Dean "Bolero" at the 84 Olympics, but that made me beg my parents to let me also learn ice dance.

 

[gkelly]

Those of you who have been skating fans for a while, I ask you. Did you get introduced to competitive skating while attending a live competition? No, you did not. You first saw it on TV, where it was readily available, and free.

We're going back many decades, but no, neither of those things. I was taking skating lessons, because my mom just wanted me and my sister to be able to skate around without falling in case we were ever invited to go skating on a date, but I liked it and stuck with it. So I saw the more advanced kids I was training with practicing for competitions and once went to watch an Intermediate-level friend compete at Regionals.

And I also watched Wide World of Sports, but I got interested in watching skating on TV because I was already skating myself, not the other way around.

 

[cheerknithanson]

USFS won't even keep up streams they do on peacock anymore, I mean, asking them to do an online stream is like pulling teeth at this point. And that's sad.

We also have to blame the "new" scoring system on losing fans and not gaining many more. It's hard enough for die-hard fans to understand the scoring, so how do you think newbies feel? If they have to do all this math and looking into "complicated" things to enjoy a sport they just won't and they aren't. The 6.0 system was so much easier, but fraud judges had to ruin that in 2002.

ETA: I was already skating when I saw Torvill and Dean "Bolero" at the 84 Olympics, but that made me beg my parents to let me also learn ice dance.

I think the scoring system makes sense. Having elements equate to different values makes sense. Maybe it's cause like doing (Easy) calculations. How is a system where it's out of 6 easier? Not trying to be rude. Curious.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think the scoring system makes sense. Having elements equate to different values makes sense. Maybe it's cause like doing (Easy) calculations. How is a system where it's out of 6 easier? Not trying to be rude. Curious.

I'm not saying the current way of having elements equate to different values doesn't make sense. I'm saying that for those who were casual fans or possible new fans the 6.0 system was way easier.

From Wiki b/c it's just easier than trying to explain myself and type it all out:
The 6.0 system was a placement judging system: scores were issued based on how each skater compared to others in the same competition, not on any absolute scale.[8][9] Judges awarded two marks in both the short program and free skate: one for technical merit, which was an evaluation of the quality of the required elements skated, and one for presentation, which was an evaluation of the program as a whole (composition, utilization of the ice, style, music expression, and originality).[9][10] The ISU required that each judge, "guided by general criteria in the ISU Special Regulations",[11] award a skater two marks, each expressed as a number on a scale from 0 to 6.0. The ISU calls this system "relative judging"[11] and CBC Sports calls the scores "relative rankings",[10] meaning that the judges had to compare the quality of each skater's performances with the quality of the performance of their competitors. According to the ISU, the marks of the 6.0 system did not express any value, but served the purpose of placing a skater into a "specific ranking position".[11]

An example scoreboard using the 6.0 system

	Marks scale of the 6.0 system[9]
0	not skated
1	very poor
2	poor
3	mediocre
4	good
5	very good
6	outstanding

Technical merit marks in the short program were awarded to skaters when they executed a specified number of required moves (spins, jumps, and step sequences, and in pair skating, lifts and a death spiral). Scores were awarded for required elements and presentation by assigning a base mark determined by the quality and difficulty of the elements, and then applying specific deductions for errors.[2][11] The ISU's criteria in the assessment of the required elements in the short program included the following: the length, technique, and "the clean starting and landing"[12] of all required jumps; the perfect completion of jump combinations in relation to their difficulty; well-controlled and strong spins;[note 1] the difficulty, swing, carriage, and smooth flow of step and spiral sequences; and the difficulty of the connecting steps and/or movements; and speed.[12] The criteria for presentation marks included: "harmonious composition of the program as a whole"[12] and how well it conformed with the music; variety of speed; the utilization of the ice surface; sureness in time to the music and easy movement; expression of the music's character; carriage and style; and originality.[11][12] Pair teams were evaluated for their unison in their presentation marks. The criteria for technical merit marks in the free skate included the following: the difficulty of the skaters' performance; cleanness and sureness; variety; and speed.[13]

Skaters could perform whatever elements they chose during the free skating program, which represented the difficulty of the program, and within guidelines for what made up a "well-balanced program".[2] Presentation marks in the free skate represented how well it was performed and encompassed several criteria.[2][3] The presentation mark did not include what reporter Sandra Loosemore called "artistry".[3] It also did not include the judges' opinions or a measure of how much they liked a skater's performance, music, costume, or hairstyle. According to Loosemore, the presentation mark in the free skate included the following: "harmonious composition"[3] of the skater's program and conformity with their program's music; the expression of the music's character; variation of speed; "utilization of the ice surface";[3] ease of movement in time to the music; carriage and style; originality; and for pair skaters, unison. Harmonious composition of the program and conformity with the chosen music, which measured the skill of the choreographer as much as the skater, was a consideration of how the steps and movements fit with the style of the music. Skaters had to demonstrate their ability to skate both slow and fast sections and cover the entirety of the ice surface, and not, for example, skate in the middle of the rink directly in front of the judges. Ease of movement in time to the music had to do with the skater's technical ability to perform the movements in a program. Carriage and style also had to do with the technical qualities of the skater's basic technique, such as good posture (a straight back and upright carriage) and smooth skating.[3]
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Make sense now? Personally, I also felt like it didn't (like today's scoring) hold anyone up from previous events as much. I skated under both scoring systems btw.

 

[cheerknithanson]

A little more sense. Key word: Little. More numbers just make more sense for me. And having more structure just seems like it makes more sense. I guess I'm more of a number and guideline/check the box off person.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

A little more sense. Key word: Little. More numbers just make more sense for me. And having more structure just seems like it makes more sense. I guess I'm more of a number and guideline/check the box off person.

I was going to ask you this. b/c many people aren't numbers people and don't want to have to do math to enjoy a sport. So they don't which means the sport loses out on new fans.

 

[moonvine]

I'm not saying the current way of having elements equate to different values doesn't make sense. I'm saying that for those who were casual fans or possible new fans the 6.0 system was way easier.

From Wiki b/c it's just easier than trying to explain myself and type it all out:
The 6.0 system was a placement judging system: scores were issued based on how each skater compared to others in the same competition, not on any absolute scale.[8][9] Judges awarded two marks in both the short program and free skate: one for technical merit, which was an evaluation of the quality of the required elements skated, and one for presentation, which was an evaluation of the program as a whole (composition, utilization of the ice, style, music expression, and originality).[9][10] The ISU required that each judge, "guided by general criteria in the ISU Special Regulations",[11] award a skater two marks, each expressed as a number on a scale from 0 to 6.0. The ISU calls this system "relative judging"[11] and CBC Sports calls the scores "relative rankings",[10] meaning that the judges had to compare the quality of each skater's performances with the quality of the performance of their competitors. According to the ISU, the marks of the 6.0 system did not express any value, but served the purpose of placing a skater into a "specific ranking position".[11]

An example scoreboard using the 6.0 system

	Marks scale of the 6.0 system[9]
0	not skated
1	very poor
2	poor
3	mediocre
4	good
5	very good
6	outstanding

Technical merit marks in the short program were awarded to skaters when they executed a specified number of required moves (spins, jumps, and step sequences, and in pair skating, lifts and a death spiral). Scores were awarded for required elements and presentation by assigning a base mark determined by the quality and difficulty of the elements, and then applying specific deductions for errors.[2][11] The ISU's criteria in the assessment of the required elements in the short program included the following: the length, technique, and "the clean starting and landing"[12] of all required jumps; the perfect completion of jump combinations in relation to their difficulty; well-controlled and strong spins;[note 1] the difficulty, swing, carriage, and smooth flow of step and spiral sequences; and the difficulty of the connecting steps and/or movements; and speed.[12] The criteria for presentation marks included: "harmonious composition of the program as a whole"[12] and how well it conformed with the music; variety of speed; the utilization of the ice surface; sureness in time to the music and easy movement; expression of the music's character; carriage and style; and originality.[11][12] Pair teams were evaluated for their unison in their presentation marks. The criteria for technical merit marks in the free skate included the following: the difficulty of the skaters' performance; cleanness and sureness; variety; and speed.[13]

Skaters could perform whatever elements they chose during the free skating program, which represented the difficulty of the program, and within guidelines for what made up a "well-balanced program".[2] Presentation marks in the free skate represented how well it was performed and encompassed several criteria.[2][3] The presentation mark did not include what reporter Sandra Loosemore called "artistry".[3] It also did not include the judges' opinions or a measure of how much they liked a skater's performance, music, costume, or hairstyle. According to Loosemore, the presentation mark in the free skate included the following: "harmonious composition"[3] of the skater's program and conformity with their program's music; the expression of the music's character; variation of speed; "utilization of the ice surface";[3] ease of movement in time to the music; carriage and style; originality; and for pair skaters, unison. Harmonious composition of the program and conformity with the chosen music, which measured the skill of the choreographer as much as the skater, was a consideration of how the steps and movements fit with the style of the music. Skaters had to demonstrate their ability to skate both slow and fast sections and cover the entirety of the ice surface, and not, for example, skate in the middle of the rink directly in front of the judges. Ease of movement in time to the music had to do with the skater's technical ability to perform the movements in a program. Carriage and style also had to do with the technical qualities of the skater's basic technique, such as good posture (a straight back and upright carriage) and smooth skating.[3]
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Make sense now? Personally, I also felt like it didn't (like today's scoring) hold anyone up from previous events as much. I skated under both scoring systems btw.

You are so right. I remember Dick Button saying "it's easier for someone to argue whether a skater should have gotten a 6.0 in a bar." Not so easy for someone to argue about "well, I don't think that should be a season's best or a personal best."

I agree with you about the holding up also. I often say "they are skating now for their PCS at later competitions."

It's not like they are going back though, so not much to do.

 

[moonvine]

I was going to ask you this. b/c many people aren't numbers people and don't want to have to do math to enjoy a sport. So they don't which means the sport loses out on new fans.

I don't like the skating as much. I can almost see them trying to check off points and add up points while they are skating. I call it "math skating" and I don't like it, but I have no options, so.

 

[moonvine]

Cheese sauce never fooled me. I could tell there would be veggies in there. Just like putting peas in spaghetti.

I did like hearing factoids early on when I REALLY started getting into watching skating during the 2014 Olympics. I did find the fluff piece of V/M and M/D being coached both by Marina to be interesting.

OMG. People put peas in spaghetti?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You are so right. I remember Dick Button saying "it's easier for someone to argue whether a skater should have gotten a 6.0 in a bar." Not so easy for someone to argue about "well, I don't think that should be a season's best or a personal best."

I agree with you about the holding up also. I often say "they are skating now for their PCS at later competitions."

It's not like they are going back though, so not much to do.

Precisely. And I never said they were going back, just stating 6.0 was more newbie and fan friendly and the new system isn't doing the fanbase or possibility of fan base growing any favors.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

OMG. People put peas in spaghetti?

This makes me want to

 

[moonvine]

Precisely. And I never said they were going back, just stating 6.0 was more newbie and fan friendly and the new system isn't doing the fanbase or possibility of fan base growing any favors.

I totally agree.

 

[cheerknithanson]

OMG. People put peas in spaghetti?

A way my nanny I had growing up tried to have me eat veggies.