Both of these moves/positions exist in dance and we could argue they do also in rhythmic gymnastics/ gymnastics (women can perform turns with their leg extended on the beam or on the floor), even in artistic swimming when it comes to the spiral... yeah.. it's upside down with head under the water, but it does require a lot of the same skills, flexibility, balance and core strength
Still..."performing turns with a leg extended" is not a spiral. A spiral as it is understood in figure skating is a long continuous glide (with no input of further energy than the initial push) in a contracting circle controled by edges biting into a more-or-less frictionless surface. True, the skater tries to maintain a pleasing upper body and arm position, but this is kind of irrelevant to the definition of a spiral, to me.
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I am aware of that.... but the simple fact is that it came from arabesque, a dance move... and as a matter of fact, it is called as such in FrenchStill..."performing turns with a leg extended" is not a spiral. A spiral as it is understood in figure skating is a long continuous glide (with no input of further energy than the initial push) in a contracting circle controled by edges biting into a more-or-less frictionless surface. True, the skater tries to maintain a pleasing upper body and arm position, but this is kind of irrelevant to the definition of a spiral, to me.
I agree that spinning is not so unique to figure skating.
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LOL! I KNOW! Sasha made the rounds on Late Night for a while saying, "It's called the Charlotte and I brought it back." The Kwan fans went nuts. "No! Michelle brought it back!! She's a lying......" The M.K. forum vs. Sashafans got absolutely brutal.^
By the way, I notice that both of these spiral sequences include a Charlotte. If I remember my skating lore correctly, it was in the 2001-2002 season that both Sasha and Michelle brought back the long dormant Charlotte variation (featured in both of the clips). There was a little minor tempest among rival fans as to which of them did it first and deserved credit for inventing the move.
(Actually, it was Charlotte Olive-oil-crusher (translation from the German), decades ago.
My guess is they both worked on it and one hit the circuit with it a couple of days before the other.
I was sort of annoyed, as a teenager, when I borrowed the position I'd learned on the beam in gymnastics and used it on the ice. I thought I'd invented it and was quite pleased with myself^
By the way, I notice that both of these spiral sequences include a Charlotte. If I remember my skating lore correctly, it was in the 2001-2002 season that both Sasha and Michelle brought back the long dormant Charlotte variation (featured in both of the clips). There was a little minor tempest among rival fans as to which of them did it first and deserved credit for inventing the move.
(Actually, it was Charlotte Olive-oil-crusher (translation from the German), decades ago.
. Then my coach broke the news to me that my, ahem, impressive new spiral was called a Charlotte and it was older than I was 
.
The problem seems to be that great spirals, which very few skaters can do, are not rewarded appropriately. If a skill is very rarely done well, then the skaters who do it really well should get credit for that. The complete absence of essentially any spiral sequences since the days of Kwan/Cohen to me suggests that there is insufficient points incentive to develop that skill. And that is a real shame. There should be like a +5 point bonus if you do a Sasha Cohen level spiral lol.
I would love to see them start giving out negative GOE for bad choreo sequences. I certainly saw some at Grand Prix de France that warranted some minus points, rather than positive ones. I won't single out the skater whose sequence really struck me as awful, since it's a fairly low-level skater and there's no need to be overly critical at this point, but I literally said out loud during this skater's program that the sequence needed negative GOE. I've also commented on the lack of even trying to do anything of any interest in most of the choreo sequences in pairs this season. The few who have made theirs more than perfunctory deserve to have more of a difference in points for what they're doing.
Definitely not, but she can include it like Shizuka Arakawa as choreography and use it to highlight the music with perfect timing instead of using it in the choreo sequence and having to cram it with other choreo elements.
And yet, high enough level to have gotten a Grand Prix assignment.
We see some of these very high GOE scoring elements in ice dance... and sometimes, it has very little to do with the element itself but more to do with who is skating it... I am not sure what kind of effect that would have in singles skating...
I wonder if the move away from spirals had something to do with need for the code of points judging system to quantify as much as possible and suppress judging subjectivity proportionally. From a judging perspective, the problem is that everyone can do a spiral, but only a few can do a great one. This means that judges would have to be encouraged to inject more subjectivity into their marks as they try to determine that this spiral is "great," but that one is only so-so.
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Spirals and Ina Bauers. Ina Bauer is one of my favorite moves, but it is meaningless when they hit it for one second and then skate on. Two of my sports, dying at once. Figure skating and gymnastics.Yay, someone else who wants to see spirals held longer! I hate it when maybe once in the whole program they just kick one leg up behind, up and down again. Like a horse feeling a bit antsy. A long, steady, balanced spiral, preferably with a change of edge, like Michelle Kwan's signature move. I know they have to cram a lot of elements into a program, but I've seen back spirals as approaches to jumps that were more impressive than just a back upright glide, and the jump then comes out of nowhere. Definitely, longer spirals please.
