I am never okay with blatant nationalistic judging. Is there something I can do about it? No. I was asked to clarify a rule about why Shun beat Aymoz today but is not making the finals. I explained the qualification process. I don't care either way if it's Aymoz or Sato in the finals. My boys are Adam Shoma and Yuma.
So that will be it for me.. this thread is getting derailed with the talk about judging.
In this case, it's not just bad luck as demonstrated by the French judge's scores. It's obviously NOT in the ballpark with 8 (!) other judges on 4 different competitors, all of which just happen to be in direct contention with Aymoz for the spot in the final. Ms. Florence even stopped lowballing Ma in the free when it became obvious he wasn't going to keep his 3rd place. How can she be even more obvious than that?
It's judging like that and the complacency that ensures 'longevity'. I mean, it's either a dishonest system is okay or it isn't... imo, it isn't and longevity ain't worth it, when it obviously involves taking us all for idiots by the specialists. And the specialists' opinions are not exactly something to use as an argument, since they are so easily corruptible.I am never okay with blatant nationalistic judging. Is there something I can do about it? No. I was asked to clarify a rule about why Shun beat Aymoz today but is not making the finals. I explained the qualification process. I don't care either way if it's Aymoz or Sato in the finals. My boys are Adam Shoma and Yuma.
We could certainly look at scoring of worlds 2022 and see where Piper and Paul and Nik and Lolo were lowballed by a few judges to get the 13 aggregate needed for Canada to keep its 3 spots.
It may have been a judge in particular that favoured their team that caused all of that.
Skaters who have long career are not always the most prolific. They are the ones who do it because they love the sport. Many very successful champions had very short career and benefited from positive judging. I think the thread is more about health and long term vision.. not so much about judging as it goes in both directions in terms of longevity.
Oh, of course, if the OP meant that the skaters that never make it past 15th place in the Nationals for 15 years greatly increase the appeal of figure skating...then okay. But nope. They brought up Uno as an example. That we got to see the same skaters for 3 Oly cycles in top 10 to enjoy sport all the more...something that is simply not physically possible in 2023 without some serious scoring shenanigans.
If you are not saying it is, what are you even saying? The judging is either honest or not. To be honest, it should follow the same rules of judging for every skater, in their first or twentieth year, and irregardless of their ethnicity. And they don't.
) Unless I am sitting in the judge's lap, I do not see what they see, and unless I have the judge's experience, training, I can't analyze as they would analyze.
Really? You think they are special human beings who love being publically humiluated and gaslighted, put into a queue to wiat till their noses are warmer and drier?I would describe dishonest judging as judging such as the pairs event at Salt Lake City. Of course it should not be tolerated.
But if I watch an event, either live or on television, and I see problems that I think anyone with eyes to see would catch, and the judges don't score accordingly, that wouldn't be dishonest judging to me. It would be "wuzrobbing", the source of many a post on Boards (and I am not making fun, I can "wuzrob" with the best of them
The OP wanted to know how we could support skaters who want long careers in that endeavor. Does wuzrobbing affect skaters the way it does fans? Does it discourage them from continuing their careers?
I don't know.
So, as long as the decision is made, you are happy, fair or not? I sure wish the sector I regulate consisted of people like you! Because they tend to rush in with complaints every time they get something they don't like...lol. No matter what the regs say.
Look up Tuktamysheva circling her 0 and 4 GoE on the same jump. Oh, and haven't you seen Gubanova receiving her score just now? Shaidorov and Urmanov sitting in K&C stone-faced not sure what to even expect? No?
In my field, there are competitions as well. It's even more subjective than skating though there are definitely very objective things people can judge and even often agree on. There are some competitors who have disgruntled faces at times. It's hard humanly to receive scores on something one puts so much hard work on. That, I will give to you. However, in general, once the surprise effect has gone, performers are able to accept scores and process them and even learn from them. I think it is the same with skaters. However, I would add that in some cases, some performers just are disconnected with the reality. I am not seeing what you are seeing in both Gubanova and Shaidorov that would make me give them significantly higher marks than what they are getting for what they are putting on the ice. So, my point here : are the skaters not happy with their mark truly aware of what they just put on the ice ? For performers, it is often a few days later, when having the courage to watch and listen to our performance that we get a down to earth perception of how well we really did. Most of the times, I was able to understand and even agree with the evaluation I would have received. In the middle of performing, our self-perception is often misinformed. I can easily imagine that it could be the same for figure skaters. The KnC is definitely not the best place to react to scores... they should wait and watch their performance with their coach and analyze it. That way, they may understand what went well and what went wrong. I know many skaters do that and have even said that. "I will watch the video with my coach and see what went wrong"
This is a tricky one but it's not about judging really... it's about Federation favoritism. That, like @Jeanie19 mentioned, is a big deal in killing careers.
No idea who these folks are. You do follow a lot of skaters I have never heard about and I follow a lot of skating.
Just saying Eteri does al sorts of things and shenanigans.
Of course longer careers keep fans interested. As you are well aware, some skaters are seen by fans 4-5 times a year... couple GPs or challengers, nationals and ISU championships... The ones who do that for a few years, bring in different programs, create expectations and enthusiasm from the fans. Fans want to see them next year, are intrigued and are happy to see the skaters they have been following. When the careers are shorter, there is no time even to get into a skater. I have had myself a couple of changes with time... Some skaters I never cared for at first convinced me of their greatness later on. Keegan Messing is one of them. Kévin Aymoz. Javier Fernandez. The opposite is also true. Interestingly in my case, it was after seeing these skaters live that I got them... they did nothing to me on video.. These revelations helped me accept that I may not be seeing how great a skater I would find "encouraged too positively" by judges from the screen. I am not talking here about nationalistic manipulation or whatever... but when there is a rather strong consensus among judges and I do not see it myself, I am able now to accept much easier that they know much better than I do
and of course, I am not delusional : i am not a skater so I do not have expertly trained eyes and body awareness a judge who skated would when it comes to evaluating movements of skaters on the ice. Malinin is extremely talented in mostly one aspect of figure skating. His jumps. I have seen him live and I know you will disagree with me but I saw many areas of his skating that need improvement. He is lucky that his expertise is favored heavily by the code of points. Jason Brown's expertise isn't as well rewarded. Also, I believe Malinin will have an easier time to improve what he needs to improve but a skater who doesn't have easy quads will probably never have them. Malinin is super young and will get big rewards. Why should it be instant crowning? He is not yet wholesome. Give it time. It's quite possible, considering his strong jumping technique that he may have a very long career.
You know, the pecking order can be upseting. I see it too. But I wouldn't put it on seniority only. Seniority in ice dance can equal to better mastery in turn technique. This is super important in the scoring of patterns and step sequences. Like in some performing arts, there are things people can acquire early on, and other things that need more time. So in this case, seniority can indeed mean superior technique. Pecking order is a different animal. Are judges more inclined to recognize edge and turn quality when they have seen a team for several years? I don't know. Ice dance is more problematic BUT at the same time, longevity here is an asset in technique. It's not always the case with single skating when jump quality can erode with time.
Really? I wouldn't call Kaori a princess. Rion and Amber are fighters challenging themselves with difficult jumps. I don't know. Loena may be overplaying the sensuality card but when she didn't land things last week, she didn't win. So it's all good.
I am still far from being bored with skating
If I get there one day, I will take a break and watch tennis 
One judge saw things to admire in the jump, another didn't. Even in a court of law, one judge finds the guy guilty, the appeals judge overturns the verdict. Same evidence, same laws and rules of procedure, different judges.
I think it is thus in every endeavor. In my field
, I submit a research article to a scholarly journal. It is rejected (after all, the journal gets dozens of submissions each month -- they can't publish them all). Once in a blue moon the referees point out an actual error or insufficiently supported claim (very rarely, in the case of mathematics -- a mathematicqal proof is either correct or it isn't. This is the TES). Now comes the PCS and GOE. Is my paper more interesting and more substantial than someone else's submission?
