Davis and Smolkin making move to IAM

[Crowdproud]

This! Figure skating is for many reasons a sport where nepotism thrives - for better or for worse. Diana is not the first "nepo baby" and she won't be the last. Even Davis/Smolkin's current coaching team have their own nepo baby team - Tkachenko/Kiliakov.

Being coached by your parents is not nepotism. It just means access to unlimited ice and free coaching.

D/S are not being coached by the Diana's mother. Instead, they (1) benefited from politicking and inflated scores to get on the Oly team in their first senior year; and (2) were released by Rusfed no questions asked, while other teams were refused.

 

[DancingCactus]

This is very victim-blamey, I'm sorry.

Diana isn't a victim, quite the opposite.
The victims were the team who couldn't go to the 2022 Olympics because she was sent instead. The victims are the way better skaters with less political backing that have to make way for her.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Diana isn't a victim, quite the opposite.
The victims were the team who couldn't go to the 2022 Olympics because she was sent instead. The victims are the way better skaters with less political backing that have to make way for her.

You do realise that more than one person can be the victim of a situation?
But I guess you then must have also been a huge fan of Christine Brennan when she hounded Diana, who is hard of hearing, in an interview and then people made fun of her online for "not being able to speak English well". Newsflash, people being bullied for things out of their control does in fact also make them victims.

And if you think Diana is not a victim of Eteri's system I want you to think again. Diana literally lost part of her hearing because her mother didn't take her to the doctor soon enough, but I guess when it's her daughter, medical neglect is okay, just not when it's other people's children. (And to this day, I cannot forget how Tutberidze photoshops her own daughter's nose and body in IG posts, but I guess that too is okay, because Diana deserves it for having been born as her daughter.)

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Being coached by your parents is not nepotism. It just means access to unlimited ice and free coaching.

Just like being employed by your parents is also not nepotism? Or being able to train with the best coaches because your parents are friends is not nepotism?
Apart from that, T/K's sudden rise in scores is not at all suspicious to you? Of course, completely coincidental that their scores changed so much once Kiliakov decided to align himself with Tutberidze - No possible connection at all.... Because that would be nepotism, and that can't be the case here, no. Don't get me wrong, they are good - But are they 20+ points better than in 2022/23?

D/S are not being coached by the Diana's mother. Instead, they (1) benefited from politicking and inflated scores to get on the Oly team in their first senior year; and (2) were released by Rusfed no questions asked, while other teams were refused.

And again, how is that their fault? I didn't say they didn't profit from nepotism, I said that they are not at fault for it, and that the conversation about it and the anger at the situation shouldn't be directed at them, but at the system and the people who actively partake in it (i.e. the judges and federation officials).
It's the easy way out to hate on people for being overscored, instead of questioning the whole system and the judges in a constructive way - Because the truth is, D/S are not the first nor the last team to benefit from overscoring or unfair treatment. And in many ways, they aren't even the team benefitting the most. After all, they didn't make the top 10 at Worlds, or medal at any major championship this season, while other teams did.

 

[Magill]

Just like being employed by your parents is also not nepotism? Or being able to train with the best coaches because your parents are friends is not nepotism?
Apart from that, T/K's sudden rise in scores is not at all suspicious to you? Of course, completely coincidental that their scores changed so much once Kiliakov decided to align himself with Tutberidze - No possible connection at all.... Because that would be nepotism, and that can't be the case here, no. Don't get me wrong, they are good - But are they 20+ points better than in 2022/23?


And again, how is that their fault? I didn't say they didn't profit from nepotism, I said that they are not at fault for it, and that the conversation about it and the anger at the situation shouldn't be directed at them, but at the system and the people who actively partake in it (i.e. the judges and federation officials).
It's the easy way out to hate on people for being overscored, instead of questioning the whole system and the judges in a constructive way - Because the truth is, D/S are not the first nor the last team to benefit from overscoring or unfair treatment. And in many ways, they aren't even the team benefitting the most. After all, they didn't make the top 10 at Worlds, or medal at any major championship this season, while other teams did.

Alright, I think everyone here is criticizing the system for favouring nepotism, no doubt about it. But as victims may be multiple, so may be those at fault. Of course, no one, including Diana Davies, is at fault for having been born to certain parents, whoever the parents are. She is not responsible for whatever her mother did, nor did she invent the corrupt system she was born into. Fully agree on this.
Yet.
She did have a free choice to become a part of this system or simply walk away. If you are a privileged child of an influential parent in a corrupt system, you still have options..You may decide freely to use your unjustly privileged position to benefit your career at the expense of others, less privileged, or you may choose not to. It is as simple as this. Diana is an adult and she is 100% aware of the position of her mother and is intentionally and knowingly using this position to benefit her career in a judged sport, in a corrupt system. So, yes, here is when she comes at fault, this is where she can be called out and criticized. Just as all those on the other side who overscore her and/or grant her privileges they would not grant to her if she was not a daughter of her mother. In corruption and nepotism it is both sides that are at fault. Victims are elsewhere, sorry.
She might have been a victim of medical error or improper care - even criminally improper care - at her childhood. I sympathize with her for the disability she needs to live with. But this is not a part of this discussion and there is no rational reason to bring it up here. This does not justify her using her otherwise privileged position to promote her professional career and that of her boyfriend / husband.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Alright, I think everyone here is criticizing the system for favouring nepotism, no doubt about it.

Are they? Because I've seen is a lot of people criticising IAM for lack of morality for choosing to work with the daughter of Eteri Tutberidze - That has nothing to do with any system.

She did have a free choice to become a part of this system or simply walk away.

So what you are really saying is that she should have chosen to not become a skater at all (not that that was something she initially had much choice in, she didn't even want to do Ice Dancing but her mother forced her to), because there is no way for her to be a skater without profiting from an unjust system. Do you really not see any issue with what you're saying here?

By that logic, Chock/Bates are just as terrible people for continuing to skate because they too are profiting immensely from an unjust system. Same for Fear/Gibson and even Gilles/Poirier - Are you in agreement with that? If not, ask yourself why.

This does not justify her using her otherwise privileged position to promote her professional career and that of her boyfriend / husband.

And I ask you, what is she actively doing to use her privileged position? No, she doesn't decline opportunities that are offered to her due to her position, I guess one could criticise her for that.

But once again, where is that energy for other skaters? Zhu Yi was harshly criticised for being a nepo baby in Chinese circles, but internationally, that was ignored or she was even being defended, despite (similarly to Davis/Smolkin) "taking" an Olympic spot people didn't think she deserved. What about Ivan Bukin (son of 1988 Olympic Ice Dance champion Andrei Bukin)? Stepanova/Bukin were (and are) certainly not scored conservatively either, and one could argue that they took spots from better teams too.

 

[DancingCactus]

Bukin actually has talent?

I don't know what Diana's disability has to do with her being overscored. I also don't think Christine Brennan should have conducted the interview the way she did, no idea why you brought that up?

Also, even in an easy to corrupt system, individual actors can still have more or less integrity. IAM have enough talent and creatitvity to produce top athletes and phantastic programs without having to cosy up to the judges the way they seem to have been doing lately.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Bukin actually has talent?

Bukin is skating alone? Didn't know that, you learn something new every day, thank you. /s

I don't know what Diana's disability has to do with her being overscored. I also don't think Christine Brennan should have conducted the interview the way she did, no idea why you brought that up?

You were the one who said that Diana isn't a victim. Do you think Diana would have ended up in the same situation if she was not Tutberidze's daughter?

Also, even in an easy to corrupt system, individual actors can still have more or less integrity. IAM have enough talent and creatitvity to produce top athletes and phantastic programs without having to cosy up to the judges the way they seem to have been doing lately.

IAM has been cozying up with the judges for a long time. And still, it is not "criticising the system" when you don't criticise the system but only harp on one person. I'll put it like this - Saying someone looks "trashy" is not a criticism of any system.

 

[DancingCactus]

I don't remember me saying anything about wanting to critisize the system anyway? I mean, I do, but this thread is specifically about D/S, not about the state of ID judging in general. I can totally ciriticize the sytem and that specific pair ar the same time, though.

I think their costumes looked extremely trashy. Swan Lake with a corseted tutu and what the heck was going on with his sleeves. The choreo was also all flash and no skating skills. This is of course my personal opinion.

 

[Magill]

Are they? Because I've seen is a lot of people criticising IAM for lack of morality for choosing to work with the daughter of Eteri Tutberidze - That has nothing to do with any system.


So what you are really saying is that she should have chosen to not become a skater at all (not that that was something she initially had much choice in, she didn't even want to do Ice Dancing but her mother forced her to), because there is no way for her to be a skater without profiting from an unjust system. Do you really not see any issue with what you're saying here?

By that logic, Chock/Bates are just as terrible people for continuing to skate because they too are profiting immensely from an unjust system. Same for Fear/Gibson and even Gilles/Poirier - Are you in agreement with that? If not, ask yourself why.


And I ask you, what is she actively doing to use her privileged position? No, she doesn't decline opportunities that are offered to her due to her position, I guess one could criticise her for that.

But once again, where is that energy for other skaters? Zhu Yi was harshly criticised for being a nepo baby in Chinese circles, but internationally, that was ignored or she was even being defended, despite (similarly to Davis/Smolkin) "taking" an Olympic spot people didn't think she deserved. What about Ivan Bukin (son of 1988 Olympic Ice Dance champion Andrei Bukin)? Stepanova/Bukin were (and are) certainly not scored conservatively either, and one could argue that they took spots from better teams too.

Oh, she has just become a poster child for nepotism in the sport because of her mother's particularly exposed position, this I give to you. I do not usually research who is a child of whom, but in this case it is just hard not to notice and not to know.
As for other things, yes, in many fields many young people decide to decline easy shortcuts in their professional careers offered by their parents "connections". If they do not, their achievements often get attributed one day to these connections as there is no way to tell otherwise. Any adult should be aware of it and just make an informed choice, and advise the same to their children. As, yes, this is a choice you make in life. You do not want it, you do not follow that path. If you do, you might have to put up with some criticism.
It was obvious that if she decides to follow a career in skating, especially in ice dance where judging is even more subjective than in other disciplines, unless she proves she is a talent that happens once in a generation - which it was obvious she was not - she will be perceived by many, many people as a nepo baby and her achievements will be perceived accordingly. You did not need any clairvoyant abilities to know that, really.

 

[Kittosuni]

From what little I understand of immigration law (and it is very little) Gleb will lose his green card if he lives outside the US for more than a year, and he must show that he still intends to live in the US. I have no idea if that matters to him.

This is an easy fix since they travel a lot. As someone who used to have a greencard ( I am now a US citizen) you just need a visa run to the US to maintain your eligibility. A few hours trip to New York since they will be living in Montreal or a quick layover to any US city in their travels would suffice that and that one year period will reset again. He just need a stamp on his passport. For any reason he can't do that, a letter of explanation to the USCIS explaining why he is outside the US for more than a year is enough. (In my case I was studying outside the US and has no money to do a visa run). The issue for him is if he wants to obtain a US citizenship in the future because he needs to be in the US physically for a minimum 5 years.

If the move is true I am actually surprise that they are doing it just now.

 

[Kittosuni]

Being coached by your parents is not nepotism. It just means access to unlimited ice and free coaching.

LOL that is the definition of nepotism.

 

[saine]

Confirmation from Alexei Kiliakov (Ria Novosti)

 

[lariko]

I think figure skating is a small world and growing smaller, so more and more children and grandchildren enter the sport. Some of them, aided by early training and genetic predisposition excel. The trouble starts when the scoring system doesn't reflect their level of readiness for a competition. I had seen Davis/Smolkin live. Smolkin has notably better glide. They are capable of acrobatics. Their current placement is still a little inflated, because they shouldn't be in contention with Mrazkova/Mrazek. This was particularly obvious in Montreal when they competed back to back with the same music.

Where the Czech duet is storm on ice, the Georgians are Okay. Tutberidze's drive to give her daughter everything is familiar to any parent, and it is obvious that the couple works hard. If Tutberidze wants to do all that and accept 15-20th place graciously, nobody would comment. But I think everyone who comments senses the behind the closed doors push, and that push is what constitutes nepotism.

Also, if Tutberidze would have hassled with transfer for a certain talented student of hers who is no-end eligible for competing for another country, not just her daughter, I would be more accepting of exceptionalism that D/S received with their transfer, despite being Olympic participants. I am just worried that this was part of her deal with RusFed, to keep anyone from her school transferring and they would release D/S.

Anyway, Smolking will benefit from training in Montreal. Another silver lining is that maybe it foreshadows the eventual deal with the ISU and we'll finally have Russians back. If Montreal is willing to deal, maybe ISU will finally accept that the situation is untenable.

 

[4everchan]

Anyway, Smolking will benefit from training in Montreal. Another silver lining is that maybe it foreshadows the eventual deal with the ISU and we'll finally have Russians back. If Montreal is willing to deal, maybe ISU will finally accept that the situation is untenable.

I liked your post for everything you said before this paragraph. What does that mean ? I don't understand it. D/S represent Georgia anyway and were training in the USA. What does it have to do with Russia ?

 

[Andrina]

I think figure skating is a small world and growing smaller, so more and more children and grandchildren enter the sport. Some of them, aided by early training and genetic predisposition excel. The trouble starts when the scoring system doesn't reflect their level of readiness for a competition. I had seen Davis/Smolkin live. Smolkin has notably better glide. They are capable of acrobatics. Their current placement is still a little inflated, because they shouldn't be in contention with Mrazkova/Mrazek. This was particularly obvious in Montreal when they competed back to back with the same music.

Where the Czech duet is storm on ice, the Georgians are Okay. Tutberidze's drive to give her daughter everything is familiar to any parent, and it is obvious that the couple works hard. If Tutberidze wants to do all that and accept 15-20th place graciously, nobody would comment. But I think everyone who comments senses the behind the closed doors push, and that push is what constitutes nepotism.

Also, if Tutberidze would have hassled with transfer for a certain talented student of hers who is no-end eligible for competing for another country, not just her daughter, I would be more accepting of exceptionalism that D/S received with their transfer, despite being Olympic participants. I am just worried that this was part of her deal with RusFed, to keep anyone from her school transferring and they would release D/S.

Anyway, Smolking will benefit from training in Montreal. Another silver lining is that maybe it foreshadows the eventual deal with the ISU and we'll finally have Russians back. If Montreal is willing to deal, maybe ISU will finally accept that the situation is untenable.

Untenable for whom ? Personally, the day Russians are back, I will stop watching figure skating.

As for D/S, well, I wish these were the Czech teams who'd make the switch to Montréal.

But I understand that IAM needs judges' voices. Not only from Georgia, btw. I am sure Eteri is going along quite well with many Russia-satellite federations.

What makes me sad is that ice dance is going back to the times of queueing and nepotism. I thought it was over when IAM and P/C won that gold in 2015. But no, "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself".

 

[lariko]

I liked your post for everything you said before this paragraph. What does that mean ? I don't understand it. D/S represent Georgia anyway and were training in the USA. What does it have to do with Russia ?

If Montreal is willing to shake hands with Tutberidze while holding their nose with their other hand, I hope it forecasts that the old/professional connections and merkantile interest will eventually take precedent over all other considerations. That's my hope. History, far beyond sports, showed it happening again and again, so...I'm hopeful.

@Andrina I am not going to invalidate your feelings, and you can chose whatever you wish. I support all athletes so I stopped watching absolutely nothing in a huff, except one particular skater.

 

[icewhite]

If Montreal is willing to shake hands with Tutberidze while holding their nose with their other hand, I hope it forecasts that the old/professional connections and merkantile interest will eventually take precedent over all other considerations. That's my hope. History, far beyond sports, showed it happening again and again, so...I'm hopeful.

@Andrina I am not going to invalidate your feelings, and you can chose whatever you wish. I support all athletes so I stopped watching absolutely nothing in a huff, except one particular skater.

That's a very peculiar interpretation, firstly for the reasons 4everchan has already mentioned, and then because Tutberidze has done everything to "play both sides" in these times. She has not really shown herself as a Russian or tied her survival to the Russian government. Instead she for instance preferred going to ISU competitions over the domestic Russian events. Tutberidze has become such a big name herself that she's no longer just "the Russian coach" although for many she still stands for the Russian girls wonder. But mostly she's just "Eteri Turberidze", and she will survive whereever.

Everything else I cannot commentate on here.

 

[lariko]

That's a very peculiar interpretation, firstly for the reasons 4everchan has already mentioned, and then because Tutberidze has done everything to "play both sides" in these times. She has not really shown herself as a Russian or tied her survival to the Russian government. Instead she for instance preferred going to ISU competitions over the domestic Russian events. Tutberidze has become such a big name herself that she's no longer just "the Russian coach" although for many she still stands for the Russian girls wonder. But mostly she's just "Eteri Turberidze", and she will survive whereever.

Everything else I cannot commentate on here.

We can only wait and see.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

I can't.
I really like the programs IAM put out, they are an integral part of what makes modern ID so high class, but this smells of politicking.

Why else would you take on a team with political baggage like this, no skating skills and frankly no style? Though D/S surely could make do with an IAM glow up.

It does seem like a really odd move - I think it is more likely they are just doing a bootcamp or something there. The TSL is not always right - they were the ones who sparked the rumour the Gleb and Diana were switching countries to represent the USA and that was clearly wrong.