Japan Open 2024 Cancelled

[TT_Fin]

Yuzu had plenty of Japanese fans who went to see him, not FS. There were people who followed him where ever he went, but could not care less of FS itself. Some of them were interviewed by media when he skated my country. Usually those people had enough money or saved money to be able to follow him. None of foreign skaters will never get success like his in Japan, but some Japanese skater(s) may.

 

[mikeko666]

Worlds 2023 in Saitama was a big success without the Russians or Hanyu. The stands were filled during the all four disciplines.

 

[TallyT]

Worlds 2023 in Saitama was a big success without the Russians or Hanyu. The stands were filled during the all four disciplines.

That's why I said wait and see (they weren't that filled as far as I could see, but then I am rather spoiled these days..,) because Japan Open is not the measure, and for that matter neither is Worlds.

The mass of competitions and shows seem to be less attended, but that could be as much economic factors as no Russians or big Japanese drawcards. It is also a fact that TV ratings were and are way waaaaay down and the Japanese stations - who JSF really really want, for exposure and filthy lucre - may be less willing to broadcast for less 'major' competitions like Japan Open, and less exposure means less interest in tickets.

We'll know more when NHK comes round.

 

[Skating91]

The Denis Ten tournament last year had Petrosian perform, so would it would be strange and disappointing if the ISU stepped in and discriminated against particular people performing.

 

[mikeko666]

That's why I said wait and see (they weren't that filled as far as I could see, but then I am rather spoiled these days..,) because Japan Open is not the measure, and for that matter neither is Worlds.

The mass of competitions and shows seem to be less attended, but that could be as much economic factors as no Russians or big Japanese drawcards. It is also a fact that TV ratings were and are way waaaaay down and the Japanese stations - who JSF really really want, for exposure and filthy lucre - may be less willing to broadcast for less 'major' competitions like Japan Open, and less exposure means less interest in tickets.

We'll know more when NHK comes round.

TV ratings are no longer a reliable measurement as younger people don't even own a TV set.

 

[Magill]

Worlds 2023 in Saitama was a big success without the Russians or Hanyu. The stands were filled during the all four disciplines.

Depends on how you define a "big success".
According to Japanese press of the time:
The arena in Saitama was configured for Worlds to hold 16,000 viewers.
Attendance on Wednesday was 6100, on Thursday and Friday 10,000-11,000, Saturday "sold out except for the most expensive seats", whatever that means.
So it was not really full even for one day.
Of course, organizers will call it a "big success" and officially they will be "very happy", but ....
Further on, TV viewership in Japan dropped from Top 3 to outside of Top 30, advertising revenues dropped by 20-30% year to year (although I do not know what section of the ad data refers to Worlds specifically). what we know for sure from official sources is that Japanese TVs "complained" to ISU about poor viewership of Worlds.
As for the stalls, who knows how many of the tickets were really sold and how many given away freely, as is a common practice for televised events, as anyone in the business can tell you. They talk about "attendance", not "sales".
But the other data are not that great TBH to talk about a "big success". Was not a complete disaster, that's for sure and agreed, but a big success? Not so sure about it.

 

[Magill]

TV ratings are no longer a reliable measurement as younger people don't even own a TV set.

It's been years since you needed a TV set to watch TV

 

[Mathman]

We'll see. There is always ebb and flow. The whole Yuzuru Hanyu phneomenon was so huge there is bound to be a period where we catch our breath.

 

[TallyT]

The Denis Ten tournament last year had Petrosian perform, so would it would be strange and disappointing if the ISU stepped in and discriminated against particular people performing.

It's nothing personal.

TV ratings are no longer a reliable measurement as younger people don't even own a TV set.

True, but with caveats (as I understand it, the ratings shown were on a percentage basis, so still showed a drop in the percentage of all people who were watching TV.) It's still going to mean that the media companies, who are sponsors with both JSF and ISU, will be less willing to pay as much for rights. It's also a problem when TPTB everywhere are so hamfisted at pursuing other outlets like streaming. But at this stage it is about Japan Open, not big official competitions. Let's wait and see.

 

[Magill]

But if we are talking about shows, they say one pic is worth more than a 1000 words. This is the pic. It comes from an Eurosport TV commentator's official account. Yuzuru took part in Stars on Ice Japan last year which sold out alright but he did not take part this year, he was busy with his own solo show. But all the current world champions did take part nevertheless. To this effect which you can see at the top pic. It comes from late March so no show market saturation had a chance to have occurred yet.
Now, my question is what do you think as a potential sponsor when confronted with pics like this? With scenes like this? Cause it is not the matter of publishing pics like this. It is the matter of these scenes happening. It would be naive to think they do not know.
I know many people will not like it but that's the reality. At some point it needs to be faced and not to be avoided or covered with wishful thinking and fan sweet talk. One of the reasons JO was cancelled is pretending these half-empty venues simply do not exist. But they do.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

The sport is dying. And it has nothing to do with the Russian ban.

 

[Skating91]

The sport is dying. And it has nothing to do with the Russian ban.

It's not helping because I've been watching Russian streams while I could have watched international skating. I'm sure there's many like me. With proposals such as having skaters perform in silence on streams from North America, there will be many more people like me I imagine.

For most people, someone's passport or ethnicity is a non issue. Tennis has no such ban on athletes and this is a sport 1000x more visible than figure skating. So whatever figure skating is trying to achieve targeting one group of athletes with a ban, it's not going to achieve anything other than self sabotaging the sport since there are many of these people with the same passports competing without restrictions on the WTA and ATP tours, on television, each playing multiple times per week at times, making finals of the majors, lifting trophies.

Just because fans from a few particular geographical areas hate skaters from a particular nation does not mean the entire rest of the planet has this same mentality.

 

[Amei]

It's not helping because I've been watching Russian streams while I could have watched international skating. I'm sure there's many like me. With proposals such as having skaters perform in silence on streams from North America, there will be many more people like me I imagine.

For most people, someone's passport or ethnicity is a non issue. Tennis has no such ban on athletes and this is a sport 1000x more visible than figure skating. So whatever figure skating is trying to achieve targeting one group of athletes with a ban, it's not going to achieve anything other than self sabotaging the sport since there are many of these people with the same passports competing without restrictions on the WTA and ATP tours, on television, each playing multiple times per week at times, making finals of the majors, lifting trophies.

Just because fans from a few particular geographical areas hate skaters from a particular nation does not mean the entire rest of the planet has this same mentality.

And the Russian streams are free and there's no timetable on watching the competitions - I've seen remarks that skating on Peacock is usually only a 48 hour window to watch it which isn't great when most of these competitions happen on the weekend when people often have plans. Why would I pay money to watch something on a strict timeframe at an inconvenient time, when I can watch at my leisure the same general product for free?

 

[TT_Fin]

Some of you don't like this, but I don't care. The audience who buys tickets is mostly a. Other skaters (edit3: and their coaches, family members etc who are involved in skating in some way) b. people who watch only what is shown on national TV and don't know much about figure skating.

FS needs a singular attraction to succeed, like Yuzu. Javier was also one, though not so big. Jumping teens are not one. The other skaters may like them, but they would be there anyway. It is probably country specific, but here skaters who are not skating themselves or are not volunteers must buy tickets, probably get some benefit through their club, group discounts maybe - I have seen some announcements about that. To become a big audience's attraction (sorry I use translator and it did not give better word so I am not sure if this is correct) needs some years, some success and also "the certain something". Being a figure skater is not enough but you must have something else outside FS, some positive media. You must have "something it" at your personality. One jumping teen would be one, if there was only one sensation - even that maybe not enough - but when they come and go, they will be forgotten soon and some forget them as soon as they leave the arena.

You can see it best in small countries. When they have medal contenders of their own, audience is always biggest on that discipline. But if there is attraction like Yuzu, his fans follow him and arena's are sold out. There are people for example watching SP - I have talked with those people - who don't understand why skater who fall gets better scores than skater who douples single jump. Even I did not know - and did not care - about the rules that much let's say 10-15 years ago and I don't understand still about all the rules - and I don't care. I do not need to care. It makes it too complicated to enjoy if thinking about levels all the time. I just listened what commentators said and knew nothing else. I also did not watch much else. This season as I have busy autumn in many ways, both work and personal life, I have decided to watch only some JGP because I like seeing newbies, I like to watch babies' competition when they compete where they belong to, and some GPs. Have not decided if to go GP Finland or, depends on schedule. Probably will not go if Id is on Sunday. So also scheduling has big affect to how much tickets are sold and people's personal situations.

On A local closed FB group I was was some years ago playful came: Name some celebrity and if other know it, they give a smiling emoji, if you do not, give a sad emoji and if you are not sure, give a neutral emoji. I named Nathan Chen. About 20 % knew who his was, some gave neutral and most gave sad. I would have named more skaters, but Facebook decided to remove that game. Note that it was quite soon after Olympics where Nathan won. I am sure if I would have named Tonya H there would have been many more who had known her.

Summary: What FS needs is a long-term attraction and when that retires, immediately another one. Teenage jumpers who are in 2-3 years will never be outside their own countires. Hardly anybody who does not follow forums like this or are not involved in skating in a way or another can name any of those teens. They will be forgotten very soon. Negative news get more media attention than FS itself in most countries and those skaters will be remembered for a long time.

Edit: PS. My country also has teens who are better in jumping, skate only seniors thought they are junior age eligible. I have decided to be neutral about that. I'm just saying impartially I like new age limits, though I think 16 would have been enough. I would also decrease age limit in juniors to 18.

Edit2: Overwhelming dominating by one country reduces interest in the species in other countries towards every sport, but if it is dominated by one attraction that people come to see, the situation is different. People come to see that person even more than the sport. Armand Duplandis is a good example, and he hasn't always been unbeatable either. People will come to see if he can still increase the world record by one centimeter.

 

[Magill]

Still, if a niche sport is blessed with a huge and widely loved global superstar and they seem to be insulted by their stardom rather than celebrating it, you might come to believe they do not really deserve neither this one, nor another one, do they? Why give them your money and fill their arenas when it just makes them so unhappy?
Look at the ATP. One of the most popular and richest sports on the planet. Look how they celebrate the stardom of their stars. How they celebrate them, when they compete and after they have retired. How they make sure they keep both them and their fans happy and involved.
How many official farewells did Rafa Nadal have this year so far? In each and every court he visited. And he did not even officially announce he would retire yet! How did Paris celebrate him at the Olympics opening ceremony? By inviting him to carry the torch even though he was not French. How was Federer celebrated at Wimbledon anniversary even though he did no longer compete? Huge.
Any farewell benefit for Yuzu from ISU or JSF? None.
To me, it says more than I would like to know.

 

[skatesofgold]

It's not helping because I've been watching Russian streams while I could have watched international skating. I'm sure there's many like me. With proposals such as having skaters perform in silence on streams from North America, there will be many more people like me I imagine.

For most people, someone's passport or ethnicity is a non issue. Tennis has no such ban on athletes and this is a sport 1000x more visible than figure skating. So whatever figure skating is trying to achieve targeting one group of athletes with a ban, it's not going to achieve anything other than self sabotaging the sport since there are many of these people with the same passports competing without restrictions on the WTA and ATP tours, on television, each playing multiple times per week at times, making finals of the majors, lifting trophies.

Just because fans from a few particular geographical areas hate skaters from a particular nation does not mean the entire rest of the planet has this same mentality.

Figure skating isn't the only sport that doesn't have Russians competing, at this point, and I don't think they're dying. I've been watching the Olympics and I haven't missed the Russians at all. Even artistic swimming has been exciting.

 

[Mathman]

Just because fans from a few particular geographical areas hate skaters from a particular nation does not mean the entire rest of the planet has this same mentality.

Skating fans do not hate skaters from Russia.

 

[Mathman]

Still, if a niche sport is blessed with a huge and widely loved global superstar and they seem to be insulted by their stardom rather than celebrating it, you might come to believe they do not really deserve neither this one, nor another one, do they?

Everybody loved Hanyu from the moment he took the skating world by storm in 2014 until the present day. Fans of all nations heap praises on him, declaring him to be the leading candidate for greatest of all tme, plus being an all around admirable person aside from his skating success.

Granted, it is npt possible to come up with adulation effusive enough to satisfy his most enthusiastic partisans. But no one feels "insulted" by Yuzuru's stardom.

 

[Magill]

Everybody loved Hanyu from the moment he took the skating world by storm in 2014 until the present day. Fans of all nations heap praises on him, declaring him to be the leading candidate for greatest of all tme, plus being an all around admirable person aside from his skating success.

Granted, it is npt possible to come up with adulation effusive enough to satisfy his most enthusiastic admirers But no one feels "insulted" by Yuzuru's stardom.

I was not talking about fans... I thought it was clear but apparently it was not.
When a sport is blessed with a star, new fans appear, But it is up to the sport officials to keep them in and involved when the stars leave. This demands some kind of awareness, intention and effort, a conscious and intentional effort, usually before they leave the sport. Other sport organizations know it and do what they can to keep such people in. Here it was obviously lacking, to say no more. And let's be honest - it is not Yuzuru and his fans who are missing out most on this.
This is what my post referred to. I compared ISU and JSF to ATP, not skating fans to tennis fans.
Of course, skating fans at large loved Yuzuru, and still love him, no doubts about it.

 

[TallyT]

Everybody loved Hanyu from the moment he took the skating world by storm in 2014 until the present day. Fans of all nations heap praises on him, declaring him to be the leading candidate for greatest of all tme, plus being an all around admirable person aside from his skating success.

Granted, it is npt possible to come up with adulation effusive enough to satisfy his most enthusiastic admirers But no one feels "insulted" by Yuzuru's stardom.

I have to demur here (but with the understanding that hindsight is a very very useless gift). Firstly, when and in the years since I joined the sport there were more than a few people who kept going on and on that he was past it (despite still always being on podiums and thrilling audiences), calling for him to leave and take his fans - not just the fringe, but all of them - with him, and when he did retire from competition these people celebrated.... riiiiiight up until it started dawning that said fans very unfairly had taken their money and attendance figures with them. Secondly, a spokesman for JSF came right out and stated that they wanted and worked for Shoma to replace Yuzu as the champion and star, to have the 'Uno' era just as there had been the 'Mao Asada' era and would presumably be the.... well I'm not sure who era after this. JSF (from how I understood the statement) thought this would fit their long term plans.

However... it is now what it is. Can't be changed. What is happening with the Russian skaters and USFS's problems with music licences etc is also unlikely to change. JSF and ISU just have to put on their big official's panties and deal with it as it is. Again, let's wait for NHK.

And we still don't actually know why JO was cancelled......... no one's talking.