Nikolaj Sorensen banned for six years for "sexual maltreatment"

[Ic3Rabbit]

I find it a bit weird how more of this discussion is about IAM's behaviour than about the guy who actually committed the rape.

IAM knew him personally whereas they didn't know the victim. Makes sense to me that they'd be disinclined to condemn him without evidence, especially since there were no criminal charges. You also have to take into consideration what this would have meant for Laurence.

Now that there seems to be irrefutable evidence, things are different of course.

You can't say that they didn't know the victim. They probably did or do. The victim was a former American skater/coach. The skating world is small.

 

[Remilia]

Justice: Innocent until proven guilty?

And this doesn't contradict anything I said. They can think he's innocent while still having the tact to not be so public about it. If he turned out to be innocent, no one would criticize IAM for remaining purely professional with him while the investigation was ongoing, but now that he ended up being guilty, people are rightfully being critical of them for making a big show of supporting him

 

[Ziotic]

And this doesn't contradict anything I said. They can think he's innocent while still having the tact to not be so public about it. If he turned out to be innocent, no one would criticize IAM for remaining purely professional with him while the investigation was ongoing, but now that he ended up being guilty, people are rightfully being critical of them for making a big show of supporting him

I think people who advocate for them not being sent to 4CC and worlds are forgetting the monetary aspect of it.

They has reasonable shots at medals and thus $$. Taking that opportunity away without proof when it would be obvious the only reason they weren’t assigned was related to the allegations opens up SC to lawsuits.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

I am sorry that we learn so much from Christine Brennan, who I wouldn't trust to tell me the sun rises in the East.

Why not? She's better than 99% of these other so-called "journalists" nowadays, who are no more than glorified public relations stenographers.

 

[el henry]

Why not? She's better than 99% of these other so-called "journalists" nowadays, who are no more than glorified public relations stenographers.

To start with, I have never seen a "journalist" start so many sentences with I, me, mine, me, whoops, did I tell you it was me me me? Back when I would give Dave Lease clicks, I was quite taken aback with the number of sentences she could manage to make a story all about her. .And my conclusion is now confirmed by what she is doing in other sports, which IMO can scarcely be dignified with the word journalism, but is just super charged "how can I make it all about me".

I already mentioned how folks could miss me with the "brave Christine sticks it to man" narrative, so that doesn't excuse the "me me me".

But I only mentioned that as an aside to my principal point. There are other sources for news for this sad event, and I base my opinions on those sources.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

To start with, I have never seen a "journalist" start so many sentences with I, me, mine, me, whoops, did I tell you it was me me me? Back when I would give Dave Lease clicks, I was quite taken aback with the number of sentences she could manage to make a story all about her. .And my conclusion is now confirmed by what she is doing in other sports, which IMO can scarcely be dignified with the word journalism, but is just super charged "how can I make it all about me".

I grant that Ms. Brennan can be self-centered at times, but I think her dogged commitment to truth and fairness and safety in sport far outweighs her vanity.

I find her mild WNBA controversies are overblown and perpetuated by bitter folks.

And I adore the episodes when she guests with Dave Lease—a true figure skating dream team!

 

[slider11]

Nic was found guilty by a legal process that dealt with facts, testimony and evidence. If any of the facts, testimony or evidence is false then Nic should appeal. I hold no malice to anyone who may have associated with him during the last decade if they had no knowledge of this abuse. Anyone who kept facts silent or attempted to deflect the truth, are also culpable and may find a case against them. Skaters, coaches, anyone who has contact with athletes are accountable. I am glad SafeSports is in place. There is no place for sexual or drug abuse.

 

[amanda b]

I managed someone accused of sexual misconduct - in a totally different work environment, but we removed them from public view, not because we assumed guilt, (and behind the scenes they received tremendous personal support), but because of potential reputational damage to the organisation. IAM will probably have to accept that rightly or wrongly there will be some reputational damage. And I remember being horrified by Gabriella's recollection of IAM's response when she became pregnant - zero compassion, just have an abortion, keep the skating show on the road.

 

[peepsquick]

I managed someone accused of sexual misconduct - in a totally different work environment, but we removed them from public view, not because we assumed guilt, (and behind the scenes they received tremendous personal support), but because of potential reputational damage to the organisation. IAM will probably have to accept that rightly or wrongly there will be some reputational damage. And I remember being horrified by Gabriella's recollection of IAM's response when she became pregnant - zero compassion, just have an abortion, keep the skating show on the road.

The bit about Gabriella is false: she took the decision on her own and talked about it afterwards. IAM as such had nothing to do with it. The situation she was in didn't have any potentially good outcome and she made a choice. I totally understand the pressure she was under but it is unfair to lay it at the feet of trainers or partners. It was also the worst time possible to get the help she needed: Olympic season.

 

[Arigato]

Is the use of the word maltreatment a way to lessen the severity of what happened, so as to take scrutiny off Skate Canada. If the testimony I read is correct, then this was an extremely violent and sadistic crime he should be imprisoned for. Sexual maltreatment that makes it sound like he may have made her feel awkward in a work environment, maybe a a sexually suggestive comment, maybe put his arm around her in a way that made her uncomfortable, not a violent and sadistic crime.

The testimony is where?

 

[ajingmarg]

I managed someone accused of sexual misconduct - in a totally different work environment, but we removed them from public view, not because we assumed guilt, (and behind the scenes they received tremendous personal support), but because of potential reputational damage to the organisation. IAM will probably have to accept that rightly or wrongly there will be some reputational damage. And I remember being horrified by Gabriella's recollection of IAM's response when she became pregnant - zero compassion, just have an abortion, keep the skating show on the road.

Why the coaches need to solve problems her pregnancy?

It is her personal deal.

 

[Magill]

The bit about Gabriella is false: she took the decision on her own and talked about it afterwards. IAM as such had nothing to do with it. The situation she was in didn't have any potentially good outcome and she made a choice. I totally understand the pressure she was under but it is unfair to lay it at the feet of trainers or partners. It was also the worst time possible to get the help she needed: Olympic season.

Of course she made the decision. Which does not change the fact she received zero support or empathy, and it was made clear to her what was expected of her, which she also made clear in the interview you have mentioned, and it is exactly what the coaches are blamed for.
Another of IAM's student made it clear when asked in her social media she received zero support from them when raped at a competition and filing legal charges for this.,
And you can't help but wonder how the same coaches who find no empathy for Gabby, or for Solene, find no problem to support another student when he was accused of rape.
This really shows some sort of weird and twisted priorities, sorry.
And no, you do not need to be trained to show support. Nobody expected of them to provide therapy, some ordinary gestures of support would do. Some human decency is usually a sufficient tool for this.

 

[ajingmarg]

Of course she made the decision. Which does not change the fact she received zero support or empathy, and it was made clear to her what was expected of her, which she also made clear in the interview you have mentioned, and it is exactly what the coaches are blamed for.
Another of IAM's student made it clear when asked in her social media she received zero support from them when raped at a competition and filing legal charges for this.,
And you can't help but wonder how the same coaches who find no empathy for Gabby, or for Solene, find no problem to support another student when he was accused of rape.
This really shows some sort of weird and twisted priorities, sorry.
And no, you do not need to be trained to show support. Nobody expected of them to provide therapy, some ordinary gestures of support would do. Some human decency is usually a sufficient tool for this.

Noone is obligated to do charity work for others

 

[Jumping_Bean]

What kind of horrible world are we living in where basic human decency and empathy are considered "charity work" that "no one is obligated to do for others"?

Humans are social animals. We cannot survive without social relationships, cooperation and communication. We literally have whole neurons entirely dedicated to mirroring the neuronal activity of our peers. Empathy and basic human decency are not charity work.

And for the prices athletes pay to the coaches at IAM, I am expecting more than from a run-of-the-mill volunteer coach. For these prices, they should be trained on how to take care not just of the physical, but also of the mental health of their skaters. Even if they were to not do it out of basic human decency, anyone with even some understanding of the topic and a mediocre amount of intelligence should be able to understand how mental health impacts the potential results someone can achieve.

 

[ajingmarg]

What kind of horrible world are we living in where basic human decency and empathy are considered "charity work" that "no one is obligated to do for others"?

Humans are social animals. We cannot survive without social relationships, cooperation and communication. We literally have whole neurons entirely dedicated to mirroring the neuronal activity of our peers. Empathy and basic human decency are not charity work.

And for the prices athletes pay to the coaches at IAM, I am expecting more than from a run-of-the-mill volunteer coach. For these prices, they should be trained on how to take care not just of the physical, but also of the mental health of their skaters. Even if they were to not do it out of basic human decency, anyone with even some understanding of the topic and a mediocre amount of intelligence should be able to understand how mental health impacts the potential results someone can achieve.

We live in a realistic world.

Mental problems - you consult psychologists (sport psychologists)

Not coaches

 

[ajingmarg]

What kind of horrible world are we living in where basic human decency and empathy are considered "charity work" that "no one is obligated to do for others"?

Humans are social animals. We cannot survive without social relationships, cooperation and communication. We literally have whole neurons entirely dedicated to mirroring the neuronal activity of our peers. Empathy and basic human decency are not charity work.

And for the prices athletes pay to the coaches at IAM, I am expecting more than from a run-of-the-mill volunteer coach. For these prices, they should be trained on how to take care not just of the physical, but also of the mental health of their skaters. Even if they were to not do it out of basic human decency, anyone with even some understanding of the topic and a mediocre amount of intelligence should be able to understand how mental health impacts the potential results someone can achieve.

Imagine are the coach and your student came to you and said that she's pregnant.

What kind of suggestion can you make?

To do an abort? To keep the baby?

Who are you in relations to the student to suggest something?

Besides the student can say afterwards so and so advised me to do this.

Would you want to take the blame for what ever happened to the student afterwards?

Of course the coach would tell her to deal with the situation and make her own decisions

 

[Jumping_Bean]

We live in a realistic world.

Mental problems - you consult psychologists (sport psychologists)

Not coaches

This is not a realistic world, and even if it were, that would not make it any less horrible. It would just mean that terrible things have been normalised - Or do you think for example m*rder is any less horrible just because it's a realistic end to a person's life it some countries?

Support does not mean acting as a psychologist, sometimes it literally just means being kind and taking it easy on someone for a few days. It can also mean removing triggers (like, I don't know, a literal person accused of sexual assault) and pointing someone in the right direction to get help (like a psychologist or the police).
Do you tell your friends who come to you asking for advice to go to a psychologist? Maybe you do, in which case I pity you.

And coaches are just as responsible for the mental health of their athletes as for their physical health.
IAM is located in Canada, so let's look at the Code of Ethics of the National Coaching Certification Program:
Core principles and ethical standards of behaviour:

1. Leadership and professionalism - This principle considers the inherent power and authority that a Coach holds.
2. Health and safety - This principle considers the mental, emotional, physical health and safety of all participants.
3. Respect and integrity - This principle considers respect and integrity, which are the rights of all participants

I'm sure Patinage Quebec and Skate Canada have some additional information about the responsibility of coaches as well.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Imagine are the coach and your student came to you and said that she's pregnant.
What kind of suggestion can you make?
To do an abort? To keep the baby?

The same kind of suggestion if anyone came to me and told me that they're pregnant?
Ask them how they feel, what they want to do, listen to them, help them weigh their options, encourage them to search advice and information from friends, family, doctors, etc. and then help them deal with the aftermath of whatever decision they make.

Who are you in relations to the student to suggest something?

I'm their coach, but above any other relationship I have with them, I am a person this student sees as someone they can confide in, someone they think they can trust, and it is my responsibility to honour that trust and confidence.

Besides the student can say afterwards so and so advised me to do this.
Would you want to take the blame for what ever happened to the student afterwards?

If you do nothing and put it all on them, tell them to deal with it themselves, you are still to blame for whatever decision they make, you know that? Do you understand that doing nothing is in fact doing something and you are indeed influencing the outcome of a situation by making the choice to not get involved?

Of course the coach would tell her to deal with the situation and make her own decisions

Gabi didn't complain about that, she didn't tell them until after she had an abortion. She criticised how her coaches and Guillaume treated her in the aftermath of the decision she made. When she was in the height of her suicidal depression, they would get angry at her for struggling mentally and told her "to deal with it". Maybe don't do that? Because a person who is suicidal might take that a different way and the next time you see them might be in a casket.

 

[ajingmarg]

The same kind of suggestion if anyone came to me and told me that they're pregnant?
Ask them how they feel, what they want to do, listen to them, help them weigh their options, encourage them to search advice and information from friends, family, doctors, etc. and then help them deal with the aftermath of whatever decision they make.

I'm their coach, but above any other relationship I have with them, I am a person this student sees as someone they can confide in, someone they think they can trust, and it is my responsibility to honour that trust and confidence.

If you do nothing and put it all on them, tell them to deal with it themselves, you are still to blame for whatever decision they make, you know that? Do you understand that doing nothing is in fact doing something and you are indeed influencing the outcome of a situation by making the choice to not get involved?

Gabi didn't complain about that, she didn't tell them until after she had an abortion. She criticised how her coaches and Guillaume treated her in the aftermath of the decision she made. When she was in the height of her suicidal depression, they would get angry at her for struggling mentally and told her "to deal with it". Maybe don't do that? Because a person who is suicidal might take that a different way and the next time you see them might be in a casket.

Are the I AM coaches doing anything legally wrong?

If they did they would be in the courts already.

Telling the students to deal with it by themselves doesn't break any laws

 

[Sabsi]

Are the I AM coaches doing anything legally wrong?

If they did they would be in the courts already.

Telling the students to deal with it by themselves doesn't break any laws

If you read the posts you're replying to, you'd know that's not exactly what this is about... Sorry, but that doesn't lead to anything.