Joubert's reaction to Lambiel's retirement

[Buttercup]

He does? At least not when it comes to fans. He's friendly, he's unbelievably patient and kind and all

I've never met him but it's nice to hear that any athlete interacts so well with fans. Good for him.

My impression is that he's just very competitive and maybe impulsive on occasion. I doubt he always counts to ten before saying potentially controversial things. I wonder how much of his reaction at Worlds was the result of his annoyance about the music deduction.

 

[Ptichka]

Natacha, I'd also add that there is always a balance between politeness and sincerity. In general, American culture puts more stock in the former, at the expense of the latter. This is actually not at all bad, as it tends to lead to fewer conflicts. However, I think Americans therefore expect that same reserve of all adults, making statements by skaters such as Joubert or Slutskaya rather hard to stomach.

 

[Buttercup]

However, I think Americans therefore expect that same reserve of all adults, making statements by skaters such as Joubert or Slutskaya rather hard to stomach.

That's an interesting observation. Do you think maybe Johnny Weir has been affected by this expectation as well?

 

[calica]

Ptichka, its a fantastic observation. I read forum: russian and american, and the americans are more angry with Joubert but in the russian forum , they are not so harsh and even they gives him the reason.
I think it is not so much bad or little elegant reviews , but of political correctness.
:agree:

 

[psycho]

Even though he could have phrased things in a more sensitive way, or even better, said "no comment", I think that Brian's reaction is an example of how affected he will be by Stephane's departure.

Based on my observations, Brian seems to rely strongly on a presense of a 'rival' in order to keep competing at the top of his game. A rival fires him up. Remember when Brian had a meltdown at Moscow worlds? There has been a suggesting that this was a result of Plushenko's withdrawal. He was his main rival at the time, and when he was suddenly out of the competition, Brian was at a loss and we all saw how that turned out.

Brian has been calling Lambiel his main rival since Evgeni left. Even last year, despite the fact that based on the season's results up to that point Takahashi and even Weir had better outings than Lambiel, Brian named only Lambiel as his competition, and only when he was called on the fact that Daisuke has been kicking *** all season, he begrudgingly added him to the list of contenders.

The fact that Stephane is gone will affect Brian the most out of everyone. I think this is a huge blow to his mental game, and his reaction is a reflection of that.

 

[stevlin]

Jeff's program not difficult?

I feel Jeffrey Buttle did a beautiful and difficult sp and lp at Worlds. I wonder if Joubert thought jeff's program was easy? Jeff did more harder jumps than Brian. Brian did a quad. But didn't he also have a fall and also did a single jump? Jeff did triples in combination. Two lovely triple axels, etc. His spins are far better than anyone else and his footwork is fabulous. Brian needs to look at jeff's sp and lp and try to do a better sit spin and footwork too. :think:

 

[Binthere]

I feel Jeffrey Buttle did a beautiful and difficult sp and lp at Worlds. I wonder if Joubert thought jeff's program was easy? Jeff did more harder jumps than Brian. Brian did a quad. But didn't he also have a fall and also did a single jump? Jeff did triples in combination. Two lovely triple axels, etc. His spins are far better than anyone else and his footwork is fabulous. Brian needs to look at jeff's sp and lp and try to do a better sit spin and footwork too. :think:

Agreed. I'd settle for a better sit spin since camel spins from Joubert? Uh... what is considered "difficult" seems all too one dimensional for him

 

[Ladskater]

You said it! I used to be a fan of Brian, but his negative comments this year of Jeff and Stephane have really turned me off!

What goes around comes around, I guess.

Yes, I agree. He showed poor sportsmanship when Jeff won his World's title. Usually skaters have more class. They may kick a few tires outside the rink, but don't display such a poor attitude.

 

[Buttercup]

I feel Jeffrey Buttle did a beautiful and difficult sp and lp at Worlds. I wonder if Joubert thought jeff's program was easy? Jeff did more harder jumps than Brian. Brian did a quad. But didn't he also have a fall and also did a single jump? Jeff did triples in combination. Two lovely triple axels, etc. His spins are far better than anyone else and his footwork is fabulous. Brian needs to look at jeff's sp and lp and try to do a better sit spin and footwork too. :think:

When I saw that part of Natacha's original post I had the feeling it would draw some reaction, and I'm not surprised this matter has come up again... So, at the risk of repeating myself, here goes:

Buttle and Joubert got the same level 3s for their SP and LP step sequences, and very similar GOEs (Brian's maybe a shade higher). Both did the same triple-triple combination in the LP, but Buttle did it in the first half while Brian had a wrong edge call. Buttle did have harder combos apart from that while Joubert had the quad. Brian's fall was in the SP, not the LP, but he was also the only person to land a clean quad-triple in the SP and one of only two skaters who attempted it (Stephane Lambiel being the other). I think the funny combination at the end, as someone (Ant?) suggested on another thread, may have been a Zayak thing.

Brian Joubert's main issue for several years has been the way quads are scored and the lack of quads in many skaters' programs, especially the SPs; he has stated in the past that skaters who can do them should go for it and not play it safe (I don't think this was in reference to Buttle specifically, as it was before Worlds). Joubert has acknowledged that he needs to work on his spins - in the past he did get higher levels for them than this season. I think the athletic aspect of figure skating is very important to him - this being the jumps - and it's a valid viewpoint even if one does not feel the same. But his contention that the most difficult thing to do is quads and quad combinations is validated to some extent by the fact that not many skaters do them, especially not the combinations.

 

[rosee]

Here's my 2 cents:

IMO Brian is a competitor, Figure Skating is a sport to him and he's not out there to be an "artist" but to win.
It's not my PoV about Figure Skating but I respect his
He wants to compete against people and not against himself. Which is what IMO COP tend to do because you are always trying to beat you PB by trying to get you levels up.

What I don't really get is why so many people are upset that he spoke about his PoV during the press-conference at worlds, next to Jeff. I think that shows his honesty. I would have not liked it if he started to speak behind Jeff's back. And it got Jeff to reply that "Figure skating is not all about jumps"

 

[Tigger]

Regardless of culture there is one major thing to come out of Brian's comments from last March regarding Jeff's win (and actions as well. That YouTube video is still up over there where Brian kicked that table and broke something back stage after seeing that Jeff beat him) to now. That is a loss of respect from many of Skating's fans.

Going into Worlds, so many were pulling for Brian to do well after an awful season battling an illness. Then he opened his mouth at the Press Conference after the LP and said what he said. That was the start of it. Then that video got posted to YouTube and didn't help matters. Now we have his comments of Stephane's retirement and the damage keeps growing. I haven't seen a turnaround on a skater like this ever before and Brian only has himself to blame for it.

Brian's always had a bit of an attitude, but it never crossed the line into classlessness until this past year. Sad too, as the guy is a good skater and a good performer, but he's sure lost an awful lot of support due to what's come out of his mouth the last few months.

 

[Hsuhs]

That is a loss of respect from many of Skating's fans.

Where do these generalisations come from?

 

[chuckm]

Where do these generalisations come from?

I think some North American fans may have lost respect for Joubert, but I doubt many of his European fans have been offended by his remarks.

IMO, Brian has still not fully physically recovered from the virus that attacked his muscles last winter. He is blaming his blades for his difficulties, and they may have had some impact, but I think he's not at 100% of his capabilities. I also wonder whether his catastrophic reaction to Buttle's victory and the depression he is feeling now about his skating problems are also an aftermath of the virus attack.

 

[Buttercup]

I think some North American fans may have lost respect for Joubert, but I doubt many of his European fans have been offended by his remarks.

I'm guessing those who disliked him to begin with were unhappy with his behavior, his fans didn't care or didn't think it was a big deal, and more casual fans have already forgotten about it, if they even took notice to begin with.

IMO, Brian has still not fully physically recovered from the virus that attacked his muscles last winter. He is blaming his blades for his difficulties, and they may have had some impact, but I think he's not at 100% of his capabilities. I also wonder whether his catastrophic reaction to Buttle's victory and the depression he is feeling now about his skating problems are also an aftermath of the virus attack.

If that's true, I doubt he'll admit it. He doesn't look bad like he did last season - at Europeans he looked gaunt and really ill, and at the end of his Worlds LP he seemed to be running on fumes. I think his reaction at Worlds may have been tied to his disappointment over what was obviously a very difficult season. I hope he's fully recovered and in it mentally.

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm guessing those who disliked him to begin with were unhappy with his behavior, his fans didn't care or didn't think it was a big deal, and more casual fans have already forgotten about it, if they even took notice to begin with.

sad to think sportsmanship is so devalued these days.

 

[Buttercup]

sad to think sportsmanship is so devalued these days.

Or maybe, as Ptichka has suggested, definitions and perceptions of sportsmanship and how athletes should conduct themselves vary by culture.

 

[Tonichelle]

then I guess it's sad that some cultures think temper tantrums backstage are acceptable as good sportsmanship.

 

[Mathman]

Or maybe, as Ptichka has suggested, definitions and perceptions of sportsmanship and how athletes should conduct themselves vary by culture.

In the U.S., I think traditionally fans most admired the "strong, silent type." If you've got something to say, say it with your blades on the ice, not with your mouth afterwards.

In the 1960s boxer Muhammad Ali came along and changed all that. He is just as famous for telling everyone how great he was as he is for being great. Nowadays many athletes in the U.S. are more entertaining for the insults against each other's mothers than for their play on the field.

At Worlds, I would have prefered that Brian had just quietly congratulated Jeffrey on his victory and saved his suggestions for improving the CoP for another day.

But then again, Brian didn't ask me what my preference was. He was upset because he thought he had won -- and then he didn't. (BTW, I thought he had won, too.) No wonder he said, basically, "I can't believe I lost to this twerp!"

 

[Buttercup]

In the 1960s boxer Muhammad Ali came along and changed all that. He is just as famous for telling everyone how great he was as he is for being great. Nowadays many athletes in the U.S. are more entertaining for the insults against each other's mothers than for their play on the field.

Mathman, thanks for an interesting post. I quoted this part of it because as someone living outside the US, my question would be, are we talking about trading insults or about actually expressing opinions - even controversial ones? Muhammad Ali did more than just talk about his greatness, if I'm not mistaken.

I'd rather see athletes make their statements on the ice, on the field or on the court (or wherever else the compete). But this doesn't mean they shouldn't speak their mind - even if Brian Joubert could have picked a better time and venue for it.

then I guess it's sad that some cultures think temper tantrums backstage are acceptable as good sportsmanship.

Do we really need a discussion of whether some cultures are better than others, even on a matter this minor? I recall something similar a few months ago, and I would much rather not go there.

 

[museksk8r]

Well, I can say in all honesty that I WASN'T surprised when Jeff triumphed over Brian. He had already beaten Joubert convincingly in the SP with as perfect a skate as he was capable of while Brian fell. Also, history tells you that the judges LOVE Jeff's style, even when he has made mistakes in the past, he soared with his high PCS marks, as much so as a Sasha Cohen. Unlike Sasha though, Jeff managed to skate a beautiful competition in a major event the entire way through in the SP AND LP, no major or minor mistakes. A clean Jeff is an overall better skater than Brian and he was rock solid in both programs while Brian fell in the SP and singled a jump in the LP. I expected Jeff to win and was ecstatic when he did it! I was VERY surprised that Dick Button wrote Jeffrey off during the broadcast after his LP skate, basically saying there was no way he would beat Brian Joubert. For me, Buttle was convincingly the best of the mens' event! I'm so glad the best man won!!