Ladies LP | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP

I wish people should stop judging spiral solely on how flexible it looks but look at the edge control and speed. One thing I dislike about Mao's spiral is that no matter how stretched she is, she looks like she's crawling during her spiral sequence. Not to mention her weak edge change.

I actually dislike Mao's spirals for this very reason, or I have in the past at least. She has wonderful extension, but edges and speed is weak! Reminds me a little bit of how everyone thought Sasha's spirals were textbook (and the positions were just amazing, I'll definitely give her that). But Sasha's edges, IMO, were weak on the spiral. But I realize I'll probably be alone in that opinion; that's ok.
 
But Sasha's edges, IMO, were weak on the spiral. But I realize I'll probably be alone in that opinion; that's ok.

You're not alone. Like I said, as much as I don't care for Kostner's skating, her speed and edge control during spiral is spectacular. I think that's the reason why I loved MK's spiral so much. She had deep edge and total control.
 
I actually dislike Mao's spirals for this very reason, or I have in the past at least. She has wonderful extension, but edges and speed is weak! Reminds me a little bit of how everyone thought Sasha's spirals were textbook (and the positions were just amazing, I'll definitely give her that). But Sasha's edges, IMO, were weak on the spiral. But I realize I'll probably be alone in that opinion; that's ok.

Not alone at all. I don't think edge quality was ever a strength of Sasha's, and I think others have noted it. She usually looked to be almost on the flat of the blade a lot of the time. But the gumby flexibility was certainly a strength.

ETA: Looks like several of us had the same thought at the same time!

Also: Not a fan of Mao's spirals, either, as you pointed out.
 
You're not alone. Like I said, as much as I don't care for Kostner's skating, her speed and edge control during spiral is spectacular. I think that's the reason why I loved MK's spiral so much. She had deep edge and total control.

Same. Kostner is basically the opposite; wonderful speed and control, yet ugly positions IMO. I just don't find them pretty to watch.

Ah good I'm not alone! :) And I LOVED MK's spirals. Didn't she start the whole inside edge to outside edge (or something like that lol) trend in spirals? But yeah, hers were the best.
 
I just watched Mirai, Kimmie, and Miki. These are all that are posted on YOUTUBE so far.

Mirai - I am sorry that Mirai has an ankle injury. I heard that they consulted with a doctor to decide whether or not to attend this comp. I suppose that it's affecting a lot on her landing. She also seems to have lacked stamina towards the end. She said in the interview yesterday that she felt tired that completing everything would be just good enough for her.

Kimmie - Her practice videos looked so much stronger. I think that she just got nerves. Good luck in the next comp.

Miki - The opening 3-3 was so huge. The second loop jump was a lot bigger than the first one. That's amazing. 3S was also very big. She was also so extremely solid in all of her jumps. All of her jumps are so extremely high, too. It's unfortunate that she got downgrade though. Her spins looked slow and she stumbled in strange places. Presentation-wise, it reminded me of her 2006-7 LP and last year's SP. An element after an element using the music as a background. Beautiful music, but a boring program. I like her LP costume better than her SP one. I like it very much except for the white decorative long sleeves.

ETA: I just watched Yuna and Rachael, too.

Rachael: A very beautiful program. She has very smooth, elegant moves that go so well with this music.
Unfortunate mistakes on a couple of jumps, but I liked the program very much. I wonder if she can stretch her knees more because they are bent, or if this is as far as she could go given her natural leglines.

Yuna: A very gorgeous, elegant, classy LP costume as her SP costume is. 200% better than any of her previous ones. Although I used to find her too skinny in her previous costumes, her bodyline looks very mature and beautiful in these two. She might have grown, but I feel that the dresses are effectively helping her, too. I especially like the long skirts on her. They are not long, but just common lengths. But she used to wear short skirts, which accentuated her skinny body and girlish look. These new dresses give her real womanly class.
As for the performance, I was less impressed by this than I was by her SP. I also felt that she did better in her practice on Sat. But still, an extremely beautiful program with fantastic choreos and gorgeous music.
I thought that her sit spins are too high in her positions. I also feel that she could go without Loop. I also wonder if she could strech her knees a bit more during her spirals. Other than these, simply fantastic, as always. Great speed overall and wonderful height and distance in her jumps. It's also good that she did not look very tired towards the end.
 
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About Kimmie

Just don't know what to think. Many have pointed out that it was probably unrealistic to expect a whole lot of improvement in the jumps, but, as was also noted by another poster, the press was very positive and the reports of her practices were very positive. So, yeah, I guess I was expecting she'd do better on the jumps in the competition.

And it does seem a mental issue as much as a tech one, so I don't know how much that can be improved. She has reported so often since her coaching change that Todd and Richard really try to help her put the enjoyment back in her skating, but competition seems to really unnerve her now. And I used to think, up through her 2006 season, that she had steady competition nerves! Anyway, I'm sure she has access to sports psychologists to work on the confidence issues.

But I really wonder what has happened. Just a downward spiral that once mistakes started happening, she couldn't shake them? The pressure from the younger American ladies nipping at her heels? Never adjusted to her growth spurt? What?

She's said in the past she'd reached a point where she thought she had to be perfect on everything all the time, and presumably that thinking would lend itself to a notion that as soon as a mistake is made, it's all over -- but still. Truthfully and sadly, she's been far from perfect for the past two seasons, and no matter how much I still hope she can improve, this is not an auspicious beginning. Darn, I want her to succeed and not end her competitive skating days so far back in the field. She's a former World Champion, and it's just so gotta hurt.
 
The media backlash when she started having trouble, I think, got to her... I think she like most of the other american skaters in her generation let themselves think that what the media says is what the skating public/fans feel... which just isn't true...

my generation seems to worship any form of news media as absolute truth, and it's frustrating.
 
Not alone at all. I don't think edge quality was ever a strength of Sasha's, and I think others have noted it. She usually looked to be almost on the flat of the blade a lot of the time. But the gumby flexibility was certainly a strength.

ETA: Looks like several of us had the same thought at the same time!

Also: Not a fan of Mao's spirals, either, as you pointed out.

Count me in!!!! It's not too much to say that skating is all about edge and speed. I was nver wowed by Sasha's spirals and charlotte that lacked not only speed but edge quality. She was never in it with Michelle.
 
Regarding YuNa's spiral. She has to learn to point the toe out. her knee is turned out and it is fine. It's very easy in ballet slippers but very tough in skate boots. It can be done, however. Irina Slutskaya had a dreadful spiral for years, and then in her later and best years, she had a more than decent spiral with toe pointed out.
 
Well, Mirai said in the interview, according to the icenetwork article, that she was happy just to land the triples in her practices this week, which she wasn't doing before! So, she must have been having some major jump problems for a while. Aside from her opening 3Z, all her triples and one of her doubles (the 2R in the 3R-2R) looked obviously under-rotated even without slow-motion. Actually, the 2R in her 3R-2R has always looked under-rotated to me, including at last National's, and she has never been penalized until now. I was wondering how long she was going to get away with it. Her grow spurt really has set her jumps back, and exacerbated problems she already had before.

I don't think too much can be blamed on the ankle injury specifically (though lost training time and momentary distraction can be a general problem), because while it might cause her to lose balance or get scratchy on landings (which she didn't do), it shouldn't really make her under-rotate in the air (which she did a lot). If it's a matter of not being able to use that right foot as usual on take-off to get sufficient height, then it shouldn't affect her jumps that doesn't depend on that ankle, like the 3S, and maybe also not the 3R. I really feel like it's more a matter of growth spurt combined with technique issues. I voiced my wish last season that she would go to another coach to fix her jumps, and my worry that it would be hard to switch away from Charlene Wong with all the apparent success. But she had falls or downgrades in almost every competition last season despite her success, and it was something that would come back to haunt her more when she started growing more, not to mention encountering stricter senior level international tech panels/judges.

I think Charlene Wong was great for her in terms of getting some confidence and mental toughness, which helped to transform Mirai from someone who fell or popped jumps frequently to suddenly a national champion. But I don't think Charlene is the right person to really help Mirai with the jump techniques. It's true that Mirai doesn't jump quite as high or rotate quite as fast as she used to with her thinner smaller body, but she still has good height and I'm sure she can get her rotations tighter/faster, too.

The worst that can happen is if Mirai started to lose confidence and heart like Kimmie, if the jump problems were to continue. It may seem unimaginable for Mirai now, but I remember not so long ago when I used to think, Wow, Kimmie is such a tough cookie mentally -- she is so "on" and never falters with one jump after the next, and always pulls through despite whatever problems she's having. It's hard to believe now that this was the mental image I had of Kimmie.
 
I agree about Mirai. She needs a new coach fast. I really wish she'd go to Rafael. He's a jump specialist and I think could really help her there. She's by many accounts a hard worker too.
 
The worst that can happen is if Mirai started to lose confidence and heart like Kimmie

Why on earth should Mirai be discouraged?? It's only her FIRST international senior comp. I thought she did very well given the circumstances...Flatt too. And I'm really surprised at how SOLID Flatt is technically. Just one mistake, but everything else was BAM. In fact, I worry more about Flatt than Nagasu...should that consistency be lost when she fills out, she could easily find herself in Meissner's current position.

I think it's time to look to Nagasu, Flatt and Caroline Zhang to carry US skating through to the Olympics. A big burden, I know, but they're finding themselves needing to fill some pretty big shoes. Emily Hughes is struggling after her injury, and Meissner, well, we all know about her.
 
I saw Mirai and her coach Charlene Wong a few days ago in person. They look cute together but I have to agree with you guys about coaching change. Mirai really needs someone to fix her landing techniques. It's easier now since she is still young. There are so many great coaches in LA, it shouldn't be too hard to find one, plus she can probably afford it now that she is the US champ??
 
I agree about Mirai. She needs a new coach fast. I really wish she'd go to Rafael. He's a jump specialist and I think could really help her there. She's by many accounts a hard worker too.

wasn't he the one that complained about the underrotation and wrong edge deductions last year? why would you want her to go to someone who doesn't see it as a problem to begin with?
 
I think YuNa's spiral has improved so much and is almost excellent at this point. She has so much speed and has such control during the edge change. She has nice arch on her back and also doesn't glide sideways like so many ladies with more "stretch". As much as I don't care for Kostner, her spiral has amazing ice coverage because she has such deep edge.

I wish people should stop judging spiral solely on how flexible it looks but look at the edge control and speed. One thing I dislike about Mao's spiral is that no matter how stretched she is, she looks like she's crawling during her spiral sequence. Not to mention her weak edge change.

emma --- I wasn't directing this at you but just used your quote as a starting point for my soapbox.

No worries - and I agree, for me the spiral is not just about flexibility - the edging is key. And, for me, Kwan set the standard in edging, edge control, speed, and aplitude that few have met...again, imo. I actually think Mao's spiral's are pretty good, although I understand others will disagree and I guess I'm a little surprised you think her's is slow, but I will make sure to try to notice that (but my sense is her edging is quite good) - and I do agree that Yu-na's have really improved. Add to that her speed and control - and I really am putting her in a class of her own (i just think Mao, and maybe there too - and I'm thinking maybe even Miki's spiral has improved - just got caught in a rut this time).
 
Those who still deny that Yu-Na lips should look at the replay at the 7:07 mark. The technical panel blew that call rather badly.

Yu-Na doesn't look as thin to me as she did last year. Not only does she look healthier, it may indicate that she is wisely aiming to peak for Worlds rather than the GPF.

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IMO Ando should've won the silver medal over Nakano. Ando's jumps were much better than Nakano's in both the SP and the LP, but the scoring didn't reflect that enough. I agree with the technical panel that Ando's 3Lo combos were short on rotation, but I don't agree with how downgrades are scored, especially concerning combos. Also, Nakano's 3Lz in the LP should've been downgraded IMO.
 
I agree about Mirai. She needs a new coach fast. I really wish she'd go to Rafael. He's a jump specialist and I think could really help her there. She's by many accounts a hard worker too.

Why the hell going to another coach is always the solution? Kimmie went to a widely renowed jump specialist. Everybody, skating fans, Kimmie herself was cheering that she'd soon find her mojo back. Look at what happened? Consistently landing jumps is always key to success in figure skating, and it's ALWAYS hard.If it's easy, there would be 10, 20something that can vie for world podium at any given year. In reality, there are only 5 or 6 ladies who have solid jumps and can legitimately be called medal contenders.

Many, if not most promising junior ladies have lost jumps after growth spurt and most of these ladies simply disappear for good, and then there will be the next wave of prodigies...There is NO magic coach that can pass out magic pills to get those jumps back. Rafael couldn't help Jeff nail 3A, quads, he didn't even try to correct Mao's 3lutz, why do you believe he's that magic?

Usually junior ladies with solid jump technique will be able to come through. Mao , Ando are good examples. Kimmie's jumps were iffy as a junior, and I doubt she will ever get them back.
 
Mao's spiral is slow because she doesn't do the forward running skating right before the spiral like Yuna and Miki do.
 
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