2024-25 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2024-25 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

Do you mean they are lacking political backing in their own federation or in the ISU in general? Megan Duhamel said recently in This and That that Kam/OShea have been judges favorites from the start, getting scores above what their technical skills normally merit, and that this year they are getting a big boost for Worlds in Boston. The PCS scores of the other US pairs even the new ones like Shin/Nagy also seem very solid.
U.S. pairs have historically been given short shrift domestically and internationally, as well as being looked down on generally by fans. Especially during the period of 2003 to 2021. Even at 2022 Worlds, it was Miura/Kihara who received the favored focus when U.S. pairs were 1 and 2 in the short program! Knierim/ Frazier logically should have been considered favorites at Worlds due to their high placement at the '22 Olympics (6th when they were arguably good enough to compete for 4th and certainly to place 5th ahead of Peng/Jin had K/F been viewed with the rep stature they deserved). Later, K/F skated brilliantly and deserved their championship win at Worlds, while Miura/ Kihara made multiple mistakes in the fp and were unfairly given silver over James/ Radford (with Cain/LeDuc having to WD after Ash's fall mishap).

In the lead-up to 2022 Olympics, the U.S. had a number of talented pairs teams but judges were slow to reward them fairly. Again, likely due to nearly two decades of U.S. pairs not being perceived as a strong discipline, despite U.S. pairs teams' many strengths and contributions, including record-setting feats. Poor perception of U.S. pairs was seemingly due to a dearth of winning medals at Worlds and Olympics, likely in part because of U.S. fed placing more emphasis and attention on singles development. Only in the past 10 or so years has the U.S. begun paying more dedicated attention to pairs development.

Still, the U.S. has never been the best at knowing how to beneficially support their skaters politically. They were especially not skilled at politics during the European bloc judging years. Past U.S. coaches and officials have even admitted U.S. fed's historical tendency to expect their athletes' excellence to be fairly rewarded without any maximizing of political strategies by the fed (partly because U.S. fed has lacked skilled political know-how). Perhaps they are learning more about playing the political game in the past 12 years or so.

For sure, Kam/O'Shea are an excellent team. Anyone with eyes and knowledge of pairs can see that. Plus, international judges know Danny O'Shea as a pairs veteran. I also believe U.S. fed is strongly backing K/O, and as I said, U.S. fed may be learning how to politically support their skaters better bts in recent years. The U.S. should certainly be pushing hard for their top pairs team with 2025 Worlds taking place in Boston. I am not sure of the context of Duhamel's comments about K/O. Clearly, K/O opened the 2024-25 season with excellent performances that surprised some people. I do not think judges were overly boosting their scores. When Ellie is able to land her jumps and throws, K/O are world-class in everything else, so they deserve to be highly rewarded. Anyone who can't see that are either blowing smoke or retaining an unfairly negative view of U.S. pairs regardless of their excellence and hard work.

Ironically, Bruno Marcotte (Duhamel's husband) worked with Ellie in helping improve her triple jumps and throws. It is also Danny's loyalty, patience, experience, and his own coaching skills that have helped him and Ellie improve as a team. They move beautifully together, plus they have excellent choreo and gorgeous transitions. 😍 With Duhamel assisting her husband in coaching Shin/ Nagy, I would not be surprised if Duhamel favors S/H over K/O.
 
To further elaborate on the historical aspects I referenced:

In the lead-up to 2022 Olympics, there were 4 U.S. pairs teams in the top 15 in World standings and 3 U.S. pairs teams in the top 10! To me that means there's no way the fed can excuse not moving heaven and earth to ensure 3 U.S. pairs teams made the Olympics. There was a lot more that could have been done politically to promote the excellent veteran U.S. pairs teams and to change the faulty negative perception about U.S. pairs that persisted. Ultimately, Cain/ LeDuc demanded judges' respect over the course of the 2021-22 season and Knierim/ Frazier's excellence was undeniable. But, at 2021 Worlds, after 6 and 7 U.S. pairs finishes in the short program, U.S. officials should have done more backstage politicking to ensure no matter what happened in the fp that the two U.S. teams would prevail in the close contest to win a third spot for the following season by virtue of how good they were and by the fact of the depth of U.S. pairs evidenced by their multiple World ranking stats! Take nothing for chance or for granted. Back your skaters politically.

Another example of U.S. fed's lame unpreparedness is how they did not get ahead of things at 2022 Worlds. By not having a statement ready celebrating and supporting the history of U.S. pairs and their achievements, erroneous assumptions and faulty statements were made by organizers, media, and commentators. There's no excuse for anyone getting it wrong by saying the U.S. had last won a World pairs championships 79 years prior to 2022. :palmf: It was actually 43 years prior in 1979 when Babilonia/ Gardner won Worlds. Prior to that it was 1950 when the Kennedy siblings won Worlds, the first ever World championships won by a North American pairs team. It should not have been that hard for U.S. fed to take the lead in having a statement ready! They knew Knierim/Frazier were 6th at the Olympics with Cain/LeDuc not far behind. Meanwhile, none of the 1-5 teams at the Olympics were competing at '22 Worlds! Duh!
 
Wow that's alot of history, thank you. I actually didn't follow pair skating at the 2022 Olympics because all my attention was on Nathan Chen and the Russian ladies. That's crazy how the US fed was not prepared to celebrate K/F's victory and promote a positive narrative. In fact, I have a memory of it being downplayed in the media because the Russian pairs were excluded (so "of course" the US won).

This is the video with Duhamel's comments. They're talking about Worlds 2025. They start talking about Ellie and Danny around 9:00.
OK, I'm a new pairs fan and not an expert, but maybe an example of what she's talking about is 4CC in Ellie and Danny's first season. I think they get high PCS scores for a new pair, even considering one is a returning partner. In their FS all of their jumps are messy (and they are only doing double throws) but they still get 53.35 for technical and 58.85 for PCS. So maybe this chaotic history of US pairs is paying off and the US fed is really backing their pairs now.

 
Wow that's alot of history, thank you. I actually didn't follow pair skating at the 2022 Olympics because all my attention was on Nathan Chen and the Russian ladies. That's crazy how the US fed was not prepared to celebrate K/F's victory and promote a positive narrative. In fact, I have a memory of it being downplayed in the media because the Russian pairs were excluded (so "of course" the US won).

This is the video with Duhamel's comments. They're talking about Worlds 2025. They start talking about Ellie and Danny around 9:00.
OK, I'm a new pairs fan and not an expert, but maybe an example of what she's talking about is 4CC in Ellie and Danny's first season. I think they get high PCS scores for a new pair, even considering one is a returning partner. In their FS all of their jumps are messy (and they are only doing double throws) but they still get 53.35 for technical and 58.85 for PCS. So maybe this chaotic history of US pairs is paying off and the US fed is really backing their pairs now.


Ellie and Danny have vastly improved since 4CCs in Ellie and Danny’s first season. They get high scores because their skating skills are incredible. Their side by side jumps and the triple throws are much better - not 100% but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them at that level next year. In time for the Olympics. Let’s gooooooo Ellie and Danny!!!❤️⛸️
 
OK, I'm a new pairs fan and not an expert, but maybe an example of what she's talking about is 4CC in Ellie and Danny's first season. I think they get high PCS scores for a new pair, even considering one is a returning partner. In their FS all of their jumps are messy
As a new pairs fan and/ or a fairly recent fan to skating generally, there's a lot for you to absorb and to learn. Even for myself as a nearly 5-decade 👀 fan of figure skating, I am always continuing to learn. The learning never stops. Of course, skating fans and prognosticators will have preferences for certain skaters and may not warm to others for whatever reasons.

The episode of TSL you posted is 2024 Cup of China review. I listened to that when it aired. I have to review it again in regard to Duhamel's commentary about Kam/ O'Shea. I respect Duhamel as a fierce, passionate, and knowledgeable pairs athlete and competitor. She started out in singles and switched to pairs. Her initial partnership was not very successful, but ultimately she soared to the top with Eric Radford. When they first paired, to me they seemed mismatched due to the huge height difference and their rather rough around the edges skating in the very beginning. Eventually, I was won over by their sheer passion and desire to excel, as well as by their improvement and mutual commitment to succeed. They pushed tech boundaries in pairs that made watching compelling, intense, and entertaining. They were not a perfect pair but they fought the hard fight and gave us memorable, uplifting performances.

I say all that to say this: every skating journey is different, yet similar in the sheer difficulty of numerous obstacles faced. To overcome even a small portion of challenges, setbacks, and ups-and-downs, to be competitive at or near the top of this sport is a huge accomplishment. I have my fave teams, too. But I also always try to be fair in my assessments. TSL and their guests often give us thoughtful, interesting insights, but their commentary is a mixed bag. Some of the views expressed should be examined carefully and not taken as gospel.

I will share more of my impressions later when I have a chance to review Duhamel's comments in the episode you posted.
 
@aroundtheworld778 , I didn't have an opportunity to fully respond to your earlier post. I love pairs and I enjoy discussing current and past partnerships and trends in the skating community. Figure skating is endlessly fascinating because of its cultural significance as art and sport. In addition, there are so many different, intriguing facets and dimensions to delve into re the sport's progression, even just over the past 25 years. So much has happened in this current millenium already! 👀

In any case, regarding Ellie & Danny, they should win their second U.S. Nationals this week. They have grown and grown, but right from the beginning, their fluid, stylish movement quality was apparent. Ellie had much work to do in mastering triple jumps and throws because she had been a junior recently new to pairs, so she was just learning triple pairs elements and had to do so under a huge microscope due to her partnership with an established, skilled veteran. In fact, it is Danny's kind patience, superb guidance and instinctive loyalty that has helped steer this team to the top. That is the key, along with the expert assistance of their coaches and the important technical consulting with Bruno Marcotte (re improving Ellie's jumps and throws).

In the TSL video, it was Dave Lease claiming that Ellie/ Danny's scores were being 'boosted' this year. In fact, they are just being given due credit for their significant improvements and their skilled, beautiful skating. They have excellent programs. Every team has to work through rough spots and improve weaknesses. Many teams do not get through these difficulties. Ellie/ Danny are making it through, in large part due to their mutual commitment, good communication, and well-forged bond that is cemented by Danny's selfless patience and caring. Respecting and honoring who Ellie is as a person is more important to Danny than harsh, dismissive ambition for the sake of winning medals. In the end, this is what being a true partner is all about! I doubt Dave Lease can understand this concept. He was too fixated in the beginning on their 'age gap,' and now Dave is into denigrating this fantastic team with dismissive comments about them 'getting a boost in scores.' 🙄

In her TSL comments from that episode, Duhamel was much more honest voicing fair assessments of Ellie/ Danny, though I do not completely agree with Duhamel's views on some other top pairs teams. In a recent TSL episode, Elena Bechke was also very fair in acknowledging Ellie/ Danny's skills, improvements, and promising prospects. Of course, E&D are being supported by U.S. fed, but since the int'l judges know a good team when they see one, I think E&D's good scores are obviously fairly earned when they skate with minimal to no jump landing errors.

Check out this brief Nationals pairs practice clip with notable commentary by Jean Luc Baker:


"These two are so good at expression, and Danny's partnering skills and them as a team is so so good. Their power, their glide, their weight transfer. Danny is such a leading, commanding yet not dominant partner in that he doesn't look like he's forcing [Ellie] anywhere. He's only inviting her...."

🫠 Jean Luc Baker knows whereof he speaks!
 
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Yes, I'm crazy for thinking about 2025 Skate America right now, but this thought just popped into my head, and I need to write it down otherwise I won't be able to let it go.

So, one spot for either Kam/O'Shea or Efimova/Mitrofanov because I don't think they'd want either team to potentially take points from the other since both teams have shown GP medal potential, and GPF in the case of K/O.

I think Shin/Nagy have earned a host spot, and I don't know if they'll get one of their own.

And then, if Plazas/Fernandez are ready to compete again, I could see them also getting a host spot.
 
They're out - https://www.usfigureskating.org/new...s-world-world-junior-and-four-continents-team

2025 World Championships
Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov
Ellie Kam and Danny O'Shea

Alternate 1: Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman*
Alternate 2: Emily Chan and Spencer Howe
Alternate 3: Audrey Shin and Balazs Nagy

2025 World Junior Championships
Olivia Flores and Luke Wang
Reagan Moss and Jakub Galbavy
Naomi Williams and Lachlan Lewer

Alternate 1: Saya Carpenter and Jon Maravilla
Alternate 2: Addyson McDanold and Aaron Felberbaum
Alternate 3: Elizabeth Hansen and William Church

2025 Four Continents Championships
Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov
Ellie Kam and Danny O’Shea
Audrey Shin and Balazs Nagy

Alternate 1: Emily Chan and Spencer Howe
Alternate 2: Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman*
Alternate 3: Nica Digerness and Mark Sadusky

*Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman have been assigned to Road to 26 Trophy (OWG Test Event) from February 19-20, 2025.
 
Is USFS giving Shin/Nagy the boost? I wonder if this means they’re the second best Olympic hope after Kam O’Shea in terms of citizenship and potential.
 
It's also another chance for them to get the Worlds minimums since they're listed as the 3rd alternate.
Yeah, with the improvements they've made since Golden Spin, I think they'll get them. They're only .60 off, so it really won't take much.
 
In any case, regarding Ellie & Danny, they should win their second U.S. Nationals this week.
Well, I was wrong. What a drama! My goodness. 😳 I 'm sure Efimova/ Mitrofanov are thrilled. They are so lovely and I'm so happy for them. Altho' I don't think they wanted to see Kam/ O'Shea completely fall apart. 🥺Alisa/ Misha fought so hard in both programs, but especially in the fp, Alisa was gritting out those jumps trying to stay clean. She did have an underrotation on one of her jumps, but I was impressed by her fight. She and Misha both fought so hard, showing their passion and desire. That's the essence of what champions are made of. ✨

In the sp, I thought E/M should have been in second over training mates, Chan/Howe. But honestly, perhaps by being placed so tightly behind Chan/Howe in 3rd, a further fire was lit under E/M that pushed them to their grittiest mindset which helped them excel to the point of gaining those intimidating high scores in the fp. E/M wanted to make that World team outright. They did not expect to win. Winning is the bonus. But it was sad seeing K/O come undone after all they built together with their partnership. K/O need to learn from the extreme nerves they experienced and use what happened to gain focus and stay in tune with each other under tough, nervewracking pressure.

I think Danny was trying to look at Ellie to calm her and she was looking the other way when they skated onto the ice. They needed to take a moment to breathe and tell each other 'It's okay. We're okay. We can do this together!' In fact, these unexpected results should lead to a unified and determined celebration for U.S. pairs as a whole to go into battle together at Worlds and get back those three spots for the foreseeable future! That's the way forward for U.S. pairs to further develop and build a consistently strong and winning discipline on the world stage! 💪
 
Is USFS giving Shin/Nagy the boost? I wonder if this means they’re the second best Olympic hope after Kam O’Shea in terms of citizenship and potential.
McBeath and Parkman are being sent to the Olympic test event, which I think clashes with 4CC, so they are being sent to something reasonably high profile. Shin and Nagy need the experience and need to get the Worlds minimums, so I can understand them being sent to 4CC. As a singles skater, Audrey tended to do better internationally than she did in the US and I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue for them as a pair. I also suspect that they probably are the second best Olympic hope given than Efimova doesn't have US citizenship. They are close to overtaking Chan and Howe, even though Audrey has been doing pairs for less than a year. Chan and Howe have been struggling since his shoulder injury and I am not sure they will regain their previous standard. Pairs is very hard on men's shoulders and, despite the surgery, I would not be surprised if his shoulder injury was career-limiting to some extent. Chan and Howe need recovery, rather than 4CC experience. They already have plenty of experience at major competitions.
 
And then, if Plazas/Fernandez are ready to compete again, I could see them also getting a host spot.

They'll need to come back stronger than they ever were. I think USFSA will be interested in summer comps.

I feel like the window for Plazas / Fernandez may have already closed with the increased strength of US Pairs. I kept hoping that, in particular, Plazas could solve her jump issues because there's so much to like about this team, and their lifts are really some of the best. But with their technical weaknesses, I just don't know that they'll still get some of the opportunities that they used to.
 
I feel like the window for Plazas / Fernandez may have already closed with the increased strength of US Pairs. I kept hoping that, in particular, Plazas could solve her jump issues because there's so much to like about this team, and their lifts are really some of the best. But with their technical weaknesses, I just don't know that they'll still get some of the opportunities that they used to.
Unpopular opinion: He is better at being a pair boy that she is at being a pair girl. He would probably have been in high demand on the market if he had moved on from her a couple of seasons ago. Don't know about now - but older pair guys are having a resurgence, so maybe.
 
I feel like the window for Plazas / Fernandez may have already closed with the increased strength of US Pairs. I kept hoping that, in particular, Plazas could solve her jump issues because there's so much to like about this team, and their lifts are really some of the best. But with their technical weaknesses, I just don't know that they'll still get some of the opportunities that they used to.
Plazas has been posting her jump practices on Instagram stories and looking good.
 
I feel like the window for Plazas / Fernandez may have already closed with the increased strength of US Pairs. I kept hoping that, in particular, Plazas could solve her jump issues because there's so much to like about this team, and their lifts are really some of the best. But with their technical weaknesses, I just don't know that they'll still get some of the opportunities that they used to.
There is truth to that, but I also think they'll be given a chance to show what they can do.
 
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