Ladies LP

[Okami]

Huge congratulations for Joannie, Fumie and Alissa!

I'm especially happy for Fumie, it's great to see her skate well again after her bad two seasons. I agree that it would be great to see all of Mao, Miki, Yukari, Fumie and Akiko at Worlds... The Japanese Nationals will be like mini-Worlds in singles.

As for Fumie, I am glad she is getting her jumps back but she didn't even attemp a salcow nor loop. She also fluzed pretty bad. I thought she was going for a 3axel and a 3/3 this season.

Her Lutz got better, IMHO (at least in the LP, I wasn't paying much attention to edges in the SP). Fumie landed a 3S very recently at Japanese Regionals, where she beat Yukari Nakano. She switched to Morozov only a few month ago and I think it takes more time than that to fully improve one's technique.
As for 3A and 3-3... She didn't say that she was going to attempt them, just that she would like to be able to land them (and who wouldn't). I don't think she can land 3A, but she has great height and power in her toe jumps, so maybe she could land a 3-3 if she improved the flow out of her jumps.

I was pleasantly surprised by Joannie's programs, especially the LP. Usually I just can't get into her skating and it leaves me cold, but this time her choreo was actually exciting and went well with the music. Colour me impressed.

 

[Kinga]

No, Rochette had overscoring in both of her programs, though they were good, but c'mon, you cant compare hers to Yuna's. And Im not tryin to be mean or anything, I dont have anything against Joannie.

Why cannot we compare Joannie's programs to Yuna's? Isnt it a bit exaggerated to state that no one can compete with Yuna or Mao?? Joannie showed to be excellent in all skating elements, plus she is extremely elegant, mature and feminine, more than Yuna and Mao taken together. She also showed confidence and that she will be a real fighter this season. It is really frustrating to hear that people exclude her already from a healthy competition for the gold!

That probably helped, but there's no way she'll (Joannie) score close to what Mao and Yu-Na are capable of getting unless the judges start favouring her ala Kostner. Maybe there's an advantage for her in that the Olympics are being held in Canada, I don't know.
Her programs, to me, were still nowhere near what Yu-Na showed us at SA. Both Mao and Yu-Na are fairly consistent at the most important competitions, and with Mao probably having fixed her flutz and steadied the 3A, Joannie will be lucky if she can hang onto the bronze medal position.

I hope that Joannie really proves that she can mix with top 3 ladies. It is annoying when Mao's and Yuna's fans 'generously' give someone a bronze medal spot. Joannie has everything to compete with and maybe beat both Yuna and Mao. This is sport.

 

[Andalusia]

It's good to see that she got credit for her 3S. Was she close on rotations on the landing and was her takeoff technique okay? (When she did the 3S, I thought it was another one of 3Lo's and so I didn't really focus on it.)

The sal looked clean to me and it wasn't downgraded. Kudos to Caroline for at least hitting the sal, since it's been incognito in all her previous performances. However, same as with all her other jumps, it could do with loads more height. Plus she is so sloooow going into the jumps, and not just with the 2A.

The main problem with her is that she is not relying on speed and her legs to do the jumps, but rather on powering and twisting her torso as much as possible to get into the rotations. As Paul Wylie mentioned, that explains the double-pump technique she has with her arms in all the jumps. The way Caroline uses her arms to get into the air is really distracting and ugly. It's just so contrary to the rest of her skating.

Her technique seems so ingrained that I think her time to shine might be at Sochi rather than Vancouver. I just hope she sticks around if she fails to make it or does badly in 2010, as a skater like her, who has added speed, power and maturity, could be quite thrilling to watch. She wouldn't be too old in 2014 either, she'd only be 21. Right now she's nowhere near the level of the big guns, and I think it will take her a lot of time to get into those ranks.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Myriane Samson

- was just painful to watch. and my question is why she has to bomb every third competition? She will be competing with Diane Sziemtt at the Nationals. I get the feeling that Diane may leapfrog over Samson.

Elena Glebova

- I noticed her 2a take off is very similar to that of Evan Lysacek. It was a night- after-Halloween 2A. Her program is average and obviously she just struggled through the whole program.

Jenni Vahamma

- Compared with the other up and commers, Jenni has speed, carriage and flow across the ice. She just had to calm down and jump.

Nana Takeda

- For some reason, I got the impression that she did a half decent LP and she was held down. After studying the protocol, I do realize that she goofed up 2 3s and it cost her a lot.

Cynthia Phaneuf

- I enjoyed her LP, as it showed a different side of Cynthia and she is a muse. She really got the crowd going when she landed 3Lutz and that was good. Having said that, the inconsistency with jumps is still plaguing her.

Jenna MCCORKELL

- She or her costume wasn't as bad as someone commented nor was she slow (She was miles ahead of Caroline Zhang in terns of speed and Caroline has the knack for making everyone else look faster ). She is a charming lady and her personality shows through the program. She rolls around the ice like a diesel engine and her jumps are excellent when she lands them. She was so mad at herself after her LP, so the crowd basically cheered her up with loud applause.

Beatrisa LIANG

- She wasn't too bad with her interpretation of Geisha program. Had she done all her jumps, it would have been better. I heard that she was a fast skater, but I didn't notice her speed particular faster than any others.

Caroline ZHANG

- She is incredibly flexible and fast in her spins. She came to a screetching halt before she jumped, this is particularly noticeable before her 2A.

Carolina KOSTNER

- Not bad. She is a beautiful skater and it shows. The much hyped speed was non-existent, though. I think it was her first fall competition and she will grow into her new program.

Alissa CZISNY

- Crowd's favourite and I am sure people remember her as 2005 Skate Canada Champion and paid due respect to her. She is very graceful lady on and off the ice, with gorgeous smile. Her timing going into the jumps is just perfect, and she didn't rush anything and let the audience just enjoy watching her program.

Fumie SUGURI

- this one surely got good speed. It was really exciting to see her skate like a jet engine into her finest flutz and vault up in the air to complete rotation. The flow, speed, the lightness of her movement and height to her jumps was such that I wouldn't mind seeing her doing flutz. I could clearly see why she has been a world class skater for so many years.

Off the ice, she is very graceful and appreciates fans.

Joannie Rochette

- What more can I say?

 

[Bennett]

I was finally able to access the protocol.

Alissa deservingly got huge points on her spirals and spins. One judge gave her GOE +3 on her spiral.

Joannie got huge GOEs on her jumps, well deserved!

Fumie did not get any edge calls on her lutzs. As I watched them on TV, it looked more like she had an undefined edge on this jump.

Overall, I feel that the caller and judges were pretty generous in this comp.

 

[Andalusia]

I am sure that Caroline gets better next times. She perhaps just had a very bad day. But she's still very young and has a lot of time.

But I found Caroline's music edits underwhelming. It just did not flow well. Any thoughts?

I for one have come to love Caroline's music edits this season, and I wasn't expecting to. I loved the beginning parts of her LP because those sections were used in the Disney cartoon, and I'm a big fan of the cartoon. The way the music flowed from fast to slow seemed quite seamless IMO, but it probably helps that I'm not familiar with the ballet at all. I especially loved her choreography during the harp section, and they can't have picked a better edit to use during her spiral sequence. Overall, CZ's choreography has improved vastly from last season, and her programs seem to have more substance to them. They're just waiting for her to give them the treatment they deserve.

I hope that Joannie really proves that she can mix with top 3 ladies. It is annoying when Mao's and Yuna's fans 'generously' give someone a bronze medal spot. Joannie has everything to compete with and maybe beat both Yuna and Mao. This is sport.

That's not putting Joannie down, it's just stating facts. She is very far behind both Yu-Na and Mao in terms of technical content, both jumps-wise and in non-jump elements. Sure, Yu-Na and Mao have been known to slip up at times and the Olympics is a whole different ballgame, but the same could happen to Joannie and she hasn't exactly been Miss Consistency in the past either. Unless she greatly improves her technical content, and that is unlikely considering her age, I don't see her as a serious contender to Mao and Yu-Na.

And because I've harped on Caroline far too much already , I must say I loved Fumie's reaction to her scores in the kiss and cry after her LP. You could tell she was just so thrilled to find she'd be on the podium after having been counted out so often, and I <3 that.

 

[jyshin]

That's not putting Joannie down, it's just stating facts. She is very far behind both Yu-Na and Mao in terms of technical content, both jumps-wise and in non-jump elements. Sure, Yu-Na and Mao have been known to slip up at times and the Olympics is a whole different ballgame, but the same could happen to Joannie and she hasn't exactly been Miss Consistency in the past either. Unless she greatly improves her technical content, and that is unlikely considering her age, I don't see her as a serious contender to Mao and Yu-Na.

"I" can only say two things.
If I were Joannie, I rather be the under-dog before the Olympics.
With a program like this, I will not be complaining too much if she walks away with the gold medal at the Olympics.

 

[fiercemao]

Fumie's score could be even higher as her last spin did not count. With 4 triples, that's quite a score for her.

 

[turino]

Does anybody know why Fumie's final spin in her program was not scored? I'm still trying to learn the finer points of the IJS scoring system. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Mathman]

^ It was classified by the tech apecialist as being the same kind of spin that she did earlier in the program -- a "change-combination" spin (CCoSp). Since she only got a level 1 on it (compared to a lvel 4 on the earlier version, element 10 inthe protocols) maybe she was planning to put in some more positions or something, but didn't(?)

Anyway, the rule is that all three of your spins have to be of different categories.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Joannie has everything to compete with and maybe beat both Yuna and Mao.

No she doesn't.

 

[shine]

If she lands her 3-3, she does.

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

That's not putting Joannie down, it's just stating facts. She is very far behind both Yu-Na and Mao in terms of technical content, both jumps-wise and in non-jump elements. Sure, Yu-Na and Mao have been known to slip up at times and the Olympics is a whole different ballgame, but the same could happen to Joannie and she hasn't exactly been Miss Consistency in the past either. Unless she greatly improves her technical content, and that is unlikely considering her age, I don't see her as a serious contender to Mao and Yu-Na.

I sort of agree with most of what you said. I think that Joannie's score was inflated and when you take a close look at her protocol sheet, it looks like Joannie pretty much maxed out her scores. In fact, I wonder if Joannie' will get the kind of score she did here had she been at other grand prix events against Mao or YuNa. YuNa would probably have gotten higher score with the same skate had she been skating here.

What Joannie does have over YuNa and Mao is her jump technic. YuNa' loop is still inconsistent, and we still have to see if Mao has consistent 3A and fixed her flutz. The Youtube clips show that Mao has probably fixed her flutz, but I won't really count on that until I see her doing consistent lutz in actual competitions. There are too many reports of Miki landind 4S or Mao landing multiple 3A in practices, but doing them in practice vs. doing them in competitions are two different things.

Had Joannie ever gotten credit or landed 3-3? YuNa always gets credit & + GOE for her 3-3, and Mao also usually gets credit for her 3-3. YuNa and Mao's technical layout seems higher than Joannie's.

Why are some people offended or upset with Kurt Browning for suggesting that CZ needs to revamp her jump technic? I thought he said something nasty, but when I watched the CBC Youtube clip, he was just stating the fact. Many people on this board have been saying the same thing since last year when CZ made her senior debut.

I watched her flip entrance over and over, and it makes me wonder how much longer her back and hip can hold out before CZ start having serious issues. She puts so much stress on her body, especially from her waist to hip area, and just muscles those jumps. I don't know much about jump mechanics, but I don't think she'll be landing them consistently when she starts filling out and gaining weight. She's only 15, and so she still has a few years of maturing to deal with.

By the way, what is up with her 2A? She nearly comes to a stop before the entrance? Is this due to her speed or just another strange technic? I rarely feel like she's going to land that jump.

It was so hard to see her skate the last half and sit at K&C. She looked like she wanted to stop skating after falling on her flip. Then, you could just see that she SO didn't want to even see her score. Her body was turned away from her coach and couldn't even look at the camera. It's hard to see young athletes deal with disappointment, but how else do you mature as an athlete? Not just any athlete but an Olympic hopeful?

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

If she lands her 3-3, she does.

Yes, "if" she does but she has yet to land a 3-3.

 

[museksk8r]

If she lands her 3-3, she does.

Yes, I believe she can too. Joannie has come alive with choreography and confidence. She seems at peace with her life off the ice and it's reflecting onto her on ice persona too. She seems to be free from the chains of nerves that were holding her back in the past and as a result there is a joy and lightness to her performance execution. I really hope she can keep up this momentum. I've always said the basis of her technique is just as strong as Yu-Na Kim's. They both have tremendous quality in their jumping, both do not get called for wrong edges nor under-rotation. With performances like these at Skate Canada and the performances she brought out last season, she is beginning to reach the consistency level that Yu-Na is known for too. I love that the judges are taking note and rewarding all the hard work she has put into improving her skating skills, transitions, choreography, interpretation, and performance/execution. She is skating like a reborn phoenix with a new love for her sport . . . I couldn't be more happy for her! The technique is there, the attack is there, and the passion and joy is there too. I wish she could bring the consistency of her 3flip+3toe in practices to the competition ice and she does need to work out that 2Axel+2Axel sequence. I hope this momentum builds and builds!

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

With a program like this, I will not be complaining too much if she walks away with the gold medal at the Olympics.

Well, I think very few people will be complaining if Joannie has the same skate & walk away with gold, but I doubt that both Mao AND YuNa will have the kind of melt down that Joannie needs to take home the gold medal.

 

[museksk8r]

During the 2004-2005 season, Joannie successfully landed a clean 3toe+3toe in 3 out of 5 attempts, at Cup of China, Nationals, and Worlds. It wasn't clean at Trophee Eric Bompard and at the Grand Prix Final.

Joannie did the 3flip+3toe in her SP at the 2008 Four Continents Cup, but she was downgraded and only given credit for a 3flip+2toe, just as Mao Asada and Miki Ando were downgraded on their 3+3 attempts.

 

[shine]

I never got why people seem to make Kim and Asada seem like the unbeatable and unshakable top 2? Didn't Ando win Worlds beating both in 2007? Didn't Kim slip to bronze last year? And to me, the level Joannie was skating at at this competition, aside from the 3-3, is beyond anything Ando has ever reached. So if she gets her 3-3, I don't see how she cannot be AT LEAST competitve?

 

[bekalc]

Yes, I believe she can too. Joannie has come alive with choreography and confidence. She seems at peace with her life off the ice and it's reflecting onto her on ice persona too. She seems to be free from the chains of nerves that were holding her back in the past and as a result there is a joy and lightness to her performance execution. I really hope she can keep up this momentum. I've always said the basis of her technique is just as strong as Yu-Na Kim's. They both have tremendous quality in their jumping, both do not get called for wrong edges nor under-rotation. With performances like these at Skate Canada and the performances she brought out last season, she is beginning to reach the consistency level that Yu-Na is known for too. I love that the judges are taking note and rewarding all the hard work she has put into improving her skating skills, transitions, choreography, interpretation, and performance/execution. She is skating like a reborn phoenix with a new love for her sport . . . I couldn't be more happy for her! The technique is there, the attack is there, and the passion and joy is there too. I wish she could bring the consistency of her 3flip+3toe in practices to the competition ice and she does need to work out that 2Axel+2Axel sequence. I hope this momentum builds and builds!

Not to sound mean or anything, but I don't think one performance makes someone consistent.... I have to see more from Joannie before I can call her that.. It will be interesting to see how she does in France.

I mean there have been too many occassions at big meets where Joannie has faltered under pressure. And those meets are a lot bigger than Skate Canada, where she didn't exactly ha ve a lot of competition.

I think one of the things is that her jump content in the long program doesn't match up well I think with Mao or Yu-na... I heard them talking in the short while the judges were waiting about Joannie not going for the 3/3 in the long program, and her coach said that there's not enough incentive to go for it.

I've got to disagree with them about that one.. I mean first of all, doing the triple salchow sequence, Joannie takes a hit on base value...And I could be wrong but I think it's the same with the double axel/double axel sequence.


Mao and Yu-na's jump composition is smarter.....Plus, I think that doing the 3/3 in the long would help Joannie get more consistency on that combination. She's still yet do to in competition.

As for Yu-na's inconsistency on the loop. I don't know. Yu-na was landing that jump in practice. I think it's just a weak jump for her but if she's healthy I think it will be okay. The fact is Yu-na's triple loop is more consistent than Joannie's triple flip/triple toe.

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

As for Yu-na's inconsistency on the loop. I don't know. Yu-na was landing that jump in practice. I think it's just a weak jump for her but if she's healthy I think it will be okay.

It's not like YuNa even needed to land 3R at SA. She didn't look like she was even really committed to going for 3R. I think she would have really gone for 3R had it mattered.