Ladies SP
- Thread starter bibi
- Start date
This is ridiculously laughable.Fans have been arguing about her LIP for ages. Being lavished by rabid commentators as a 'textbook' jumper does not necessarily make you so. I was more pissed off by not-calling-her-URs in the past instead of LIPPING though.
"Fans" have been arguing about her lip for "ages"? you mean, like FIERCE Mao fans? I think they might probably cheer for the fairness of the technical panel, whilst mao's fans were crying for unfairness
then comes another 'battle' on YT
oh yeah but there's difference between a right jump marked wrong and a wrong jump marked wrong.. either way fans will complain because whoever they love got downgraded/'e'.
Wow, I missed all the skating action today. I'm downloading the high-resolution IN video right now, but I had a peek at Yu-na's Youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PYle36v_dk
I thought the performance aspect was amazing, possibly better than SA. But the jumps looked iffy. The 3Z was rightly downgraded, it's very obvious from the slow-mo in the YT video.
The 3F... Well, Yu-na has rather unusual technique. If you watch the slow-motion, you can see that while her upper-body continue moving backwards in a flat line, her left ankle dips down and she's literally on an outside *edge*, I say literally because there are two edges to the blades, and she's clearly making contact with the ice using the outside rather than inside edge. Nevertheless, as a whole, she's continuing straight without going into an outside *curve* because the rest of her body is leaning the other way. If you weren't looking at her blades, you'd say that she's on a flat or even a very shallow inside curve. If you only looked at her blades, you'd say she's on an outside edge.
Now, when most people speak of inside and outside edges, they're really thinking about the *curves*, and usually this is not a problem, because an inside edge produces an inside curve, and outside edge produces an outside curve. Especially with respect to jumps, people speak of lutz being harder than the flip, because the flip involves a shallow inside *curve* in the motion that goes *with* the rotation of the jump, whereas lutz has a shallow outside "curve" in motion that goes *against* the rotation of the jump.
With Yuna, she's really literally on the outside *edge* but not making a visible outside *curve* -- so especially if you don't have slow-mo and can't see her left blade clearly, you'd think she's not on an outside edge. And also in terms of the mechanics of the jump, she's not on an outside curve so she's not counter-rotating against the jump during the take-off.
However, all definitions of flips and lutzes (that I know of) still define them in terms of the *edge* not in terms of body rotation, so I think if a technical panel wants to take that definition literally, then they are right to give Yu-na's 3F an edge call.
One might argue that the definition of flip/lutz ought to be changed so that it really reflects *with* versus *against* body rotation during preparation, but first of all, it would be very hard to assess rotation, especially in borderline cases (whereas the edge you can pretty easily spot with the right camera angle), and secondly very very few skaters have Yu-na's technique of having an outside edge and inside curve on the flip, or vice versa on the lutz. So considering a change in the definitions now would only affect Yuna's case, and there will be an outcry of unfairness/favoritism no matter which way the decision goes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PYle36v_dk
I thought the performance aspect was amazing, possibly better than SA. But the jumps looked iffy. The 3Z was rightly downgraded, it's very obvious from the slow-mo in the YT video.
The 3F... Well, Yu-na has rather unusual technique. If you watch the slow-motion, you can see that while her upper-body continue moving backwards in a flat line, her left ankle dips down and she's literally on an outside *edge*, I say literally because there are two edges to the blades, and she's clearly making contact with the ice using the outside rather than inside edge. Nevertheless, as a whole, she's continuing straight without going into an outside *curve* because the rest of her body is leaning the other way. If you weren't looking at her blades, you'd say that she's on a flat or even a very shallow inside curve. If you only looked at her blades, you'd say she's on an outside edge.
Now, when most people speak of inside and outside edges, they're really thinking about the *curves*, and usually this is not a problem, because an inside edge produces an inside curve, and outside edge produces an outside curve. Especially with respect to jumps, people speak of lutz being harder than the flip, because the flip involves a shallow inside *curve* in the motion that goes *with* the rotation of the jump, whereas lutz has a shallow outside "curve" in motion that goes *against* the rotation of the jump.
With Yuna, she's really literally on the outside *edge* but not making a visible outside *curve* -- so especially if you don't have slow-mo and can't see her left blade clearly, you'd think she's not on an outside edge. And also in terms of the mechanics of the jump, she's not on an outside curve so she's not counter-rotating against the jump during the take-off.
However, all definitions of flips and lutzes (that I know of) still define them in terms of the *edge* not in terms of body rotation, so I think if a technical panel wants to take that definition literally, then they are right to give Yu-na's 3F an edge call.
One might argue that the definition of flip/lutz ought to be changed so that it really reflects *with* versus *against* body rotation during preparation, but first of all, it would be very hard to assess rotation, especially in borderline cases (whereas the edge you can pretty easily spot with the right camera angle), and secondly very very few skaters have Yu-na's technique of having an outside edge and inside curve on the flip, or vice versa on the lutz. So considering a change in the definitions now would only affect Yuna's case, and there will be an outcry of unfairness/favoritism no matter which way the decision goes.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
Katrina got level 4s on all three of her spins.
Katrina's spins were beautiful as was the rest of her SP.
Great start for Katrina Hacker. She and Laura Lipisto were the only skaters in the top 6 who skated cleanly.
They both did the same jumps, too. 3T+2T, 3Lo and 2A.
Katrina got level 4s on all three of her spins.
I was happy about Katrina too considering she had some rough skates over the summer. I wish the judges would reward her with more PCS.
Some posters have mentioned Yu-na's iffy 3F+3T at SA, here's a high resolution video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GuzcjWn5c
She's clearly on an outside *edge* on take-off (again, I'm talking about the literal edge that touches the ice), and she also under-rotated both the 3F and 3T, especially the 3T. She's very lucky that she wasn't called on either the edge or the two UR's. Her reputation certainly helped her out there. Her 3F was as under-rotated as Miki's two 3R's were, and her 3T was more under-rotated. If the tech panel had applied calls consistently across these two skaters, the results would probably have been quite different, seeing how Miki was hit with two downgrades on her two 3+3's.
I'm sure reputation played a role there. Yu-na rode on her stellar reputation on jumps. It's not her fault, it's the way ISU judging works. Tech panel only goes back to review jumps for down-grades if they called the jump as an UR in real time. So someone with Yu-na's reputation would very unlikely be called UR, and therefore the tech panel would never go back to it to assess potential UR.
I have said time and again that I dislike the way the tech panel is set up. Inconsistent tech calling on edges and UR's can change a whole competition result, and they often have. Judges should be allowed to make their own independent evaluations, and give different shades of penalties for different severities of infractions.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GuzcjWn5c
She's clearly on an outside *edge* on take-off (again, I'm talking about the literal edge that touches the ice), and she also under-rotated both the 3F and 3T, especially the 3T. She's very lucky that she wasn't called on either the edge or the two UR's. Her reputation certainly helped her out there. Her 3F was as under-rotated as Miki's two 3R's were, and her 3T was more under-rotated. If the tech panel had applied calls consistently across these two skaters, the results would probably have been quite different, seeing how Miki was hit with two downgrades on her two 3+3's.
I'm sure reputation played a role there. Yu-na rode on her stellar reputation on jumps. It's not her fault, it's the way ISU judging works. Tech panel only goes back to review jumps for down-grades if they called the jump as an UR in real time. So someone with Yu-na's reputation would very unlikely be called UR, and therefore the tech panel would never go back to it to assess potential UR.
I have said time and again that I dislike the way the tech panel is set up. Inconsistent tech calling on edges and UR's can change a whole competition result, and they often have. Judges should be allowed to make their own independent evaluations, and give different shades of penalties for different severities of infractions.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2007
anyone know what happnned to Mira Leung? Did anyone see her skate?
My (very slow) IN download has just gotten as far as Ashley's K&C. Wow, Priscilla Hills looks totally different! *laugh* Look at that flowery dress and cute hairdo, she looks like a "grown-up" hippies girl, and she totally matches Ashley (maybe outshining Ashley's outfit a bit). 
What a transformation! I mean, she looks younger and in better shape, but just the radical transformation from Johnny Days!
Laura Lepisto, btw, is skating *beautifully*. Great jumps, great energy & speed, nice spins, secure edges, energetic footwork sequence. She's so on! But don't ask me about the music or choreography 'cause I'm peeking at it in mute mode at work.
What a transformation! I mean, she looks younger and in better shape, but just the radical transformation from Johnny Days!Laura Lepisto, btw, is skating *beautifully*. Great jumps, great energy & speed, nice spins, secure edges, energetic footwork sequence. She's so on! But don't ask me about the music or choreography 'cause I'm peeking at it in mute mode at work.
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- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
My (very slow) IN download has just gotten as far as Ashley's K&C. Wow, Priscilla Hills looks totally different! *laugh* Look at that flowery dress and cute hairdo, she looks like a "grown-up" hippies girl, and she totally matches Ashley (maybe outshining Ashley's outfit a bit).
Laura Lepisto, btw, is skating *beautifully*. Great jumps, great energy & speed, nice jumps, secure edges, energetic footwork sequence. She's so on! But don't ask me about the music or choreography 'cause I'm peeking at it in mute mode at work.
can you post that on youtube pleaase!! I wanna see Ashley!! sounds like Ashely made a good coaching change and I am so happy for her!
Well, first I have to let it finish download, and then try to save it. Then I have to find some software to cut it up, and then figure out some way to down sample it so that YT would accept it. And oh, yeah, I've never uploaded to YT before so I'm sure I'll hit snags, too. Actually, I'm sure someone else will put up YT videos of all the performances before I can figure it out.
Laura Lepisto, btw, is skating *beautifully*. Great jumps, great energy & speed, nice jumps, secure edges, energetic footwork sequence. She's so on! But don't ask me about the music or choreography 'cause I'm peeking at it in mute mode at work.
She was fantastic. I thought it was the most musical performance I've ever seen from her. Definitely my favorite of the night.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
not to mention copyright laws.
I was just wondering, how could someone go into *inside curve* while skating with *outside edge*? *Inside curve* means curve created when someone's skating with *inside edge*. It is an irony to say that somebody can skate into *inside curve* while her/his *outside edge* of the blade is on the ice, it just literally and technically doesn't make sense.
Yuna skates into *inside edge* because SHE SKATES WITH HER *INSIDE EDGE* when she performs flip jump... GOT IT????
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
You're taking the LP of SA as an example to explain what happend in the SP of COC. The 3F of COC SP was very different from that of SA LP in edge-wise. Even 3F of SA SP is very different from that of SA LP. I would bring 07 World SP if I followed your logic.
I hope you can watch her SP of COC with a high resolution video.
BTW, I really liked your point that explains the difference between Flip and Lutz with "with" and "against". If I can add one more thing on top of edges for the difference, it is where the center of gravity is located at take-off. more left or more right? It also determines "with" or "against" the direction of rotation.
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- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
And for the underotation of SA LP, did you consider the convention that 1/4 rotation less at the landing is NOT called as an UR?
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- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
Just finished watching some videos.
Yu-Na:
Her 3Lz was short on revolution compared to her other lutzes she did before, but I felt that if her Lz was DG'ed, then Ashley's 3Lz and Miki's 3Loop should've been downgraded too. I don't understand how they ratified Ashley and Miki's jump while they DG'ed Yu-Na's. I felt that it was little unfair to Yu-Na. Does she have to have like the perfect-est jumps and not underrotate any of her jumps while it's okay for some skaters to UR their jumps a little?
Yes, she is in 1st place, but what if this blatantly unfair judging continues until the LP? GPF? Worlds? Olympics? Why did figure skating lose its popularity? Did scandalous judging not play a role in that?
Also, she definitely did not deserve an 'e' mark on her flip. Did that look OBVIOUS, people who argue that she deserved the 'e' mark? I couldn't tell. Please tell me how you could've tell that she had an OBVIOUS lip.
I also thought Lepisto should've been 2nd ahead of Miki. I thought she was just so wonderful and delightful. Very good for her. I hope she can stay tough and medal.
So sad for Sarah. I was also rooting for her to get a medal, so I hope she can pull through this.
Man, I have so many skaters that I want to see medal.
Yu-Na, Ashley, Sarah, Miki, Lepisto, etc etc :$
Yu-Na:
Her 3Lz was short on revolution compared to her other lutzes she did before, but I felt that if her Lz was DG'ed, then Ashley's 3Lz and Miki's 3Loop should've been downgraded too. I don't understand how they ratified Ashley and Miki's jump while they DG'ed Yu-Na's. I felt that it was little unfair to Yu-Na. Does she have to have like the perfect-est jumps and not underrotate any of her jumps while it's okay for some skaters to UR their jumps a little?
Yes, she is in 1st place, but what if this blatantly unfair judging continues until the LP? GPF? Worlds? Olympics? Why did figure skating lose its popularity? Did scandalous judging not play a role in that?
Also, she definitely did not deserve an 'e' mark on her flip. Did that look OBVIOUS, people who argue that she deserved the 'e' mark? I couldn't tell. Please tell me how you could've tell that she had an OBVIOUS lip.
I also thought Lepisto should've been 2nd ahead of Miki. I thought she was just so wonderful and delightful. Very good for her. I hope she can stay tough and medal.
So sad for Sarah. I was also rooting for her to get a medal, so I hope she can pull through this.
Man, I have so many skaters that I want to see medal.
Yu-Na, Ashley, Sarah, Miki, Lepisto, etc etc :$
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