Jump hype or soap opera: what can make the general public of the U.S. fall in love with figure skating again?

[TallyT]

You think allowing people to know who is actually competing for the United States would get more people to watch...

It didn't with Nathan, and he won! Now it is true that the US are going into the Olympic season with good prospects in three disciplines, and Alysa as a possible breakout star. However, without any idea of how much money and time fixing the music copyright issue will take, it's impossible to say whether it's worth it to NBC. In any case, they have other winter sports they can focus on, remember, so it's really a matter for the ISU and USFS to work on.

 

[TallyT]

Yes, I was thinking about the music.

But TV networks are also funny about their own broadcast rights. They always make a big deal about announcing, "NBC (or the National; Football League, etc.) owns the rights to this broadcast and you can't reproduce it or rebroadcast it it without our permission, etc., etc." For big money sports like football I think they sell the rights to old games to some minor network for a fee, if anyone wants to rewatch USC against Notre Dame in the Rose Bowl in 1926. It always amazed my that anyone would want to re-watch an old football game when you already know who won. I guess figure skating is unique in that regard, that fans like to watch performances over and over.

Hey, I know people who have had their old videos of 1970s-80s rugby games converted first to DVD and then ripped and they watch them several times a year... and I can't talk, because will not for one minute admit how many times I have watched the same dearly loved performances (and not just by him over there). There was a study that showed that rereading loved books or rewatching TV shows/films is actually good for your health, and I would argue that it would extend to sporting performances that we've watched so often we know every move...

 

[Mathman]

It didn't with Nathan...

I don't think it has ever happened for an American man ("It" being pre-Olympic type that induced American audiences to watch the Olympics.). The closest was probably Brian Boitano and the "Battle of the Brians" -- ooh, fierce! Boitano and Scott Hamilton are the only two U.S. men skaters that the general public has ever heard of, and both became famous only as pros, from made-for-TV specials and pro tours, plus being producers. Kristi Yamaguchi was also more famous as a pro than as an Olympian.

 

[cailuj365]

This seems to be standard operatuing procedure now, perhaps related to copyright issues. As I understand it ,copyright laws allow exemptions for "news." In the first few days, a sporting event is news. After that, it's not news any more and stricter rules apply. (?)

Sometimes, there's a bit of a delayed effect to really take off though. Alysa's LP took off immediately, of course. Ilia's took off more slowly but really started to climb after 5 days or so. Both of them were actively still amassing views. Ilia's LP last year was at 3.2M before being pulled. There are even reaction videos (people who react to viral or popular things) to Ilia's Vampire skate that were posted just 2 days ago. One day later, the actual performance video is gone, lmao. I laugh so I don't have to cry at the ridiculousness of the situation.

Just crazy that USA/NBC doesn't care when it's their own champions. CBC and Eurosport have no problem keeping the performances of these skaters up on YouTube in Canada, France, etc.

 

[TallyT]

The closest was probably Brian Boitano and the "Battle of the Brians" -- ooh, fierce!

And that's another reason why Alysa (or Amber, or Isabeau... or maybe had the fates been kind, Gracie) might be the breakout rather than Nathan Chen or Ilia Malinin. There's suspense, there's an actual 'battle' for them to fight. Nathan was more a triumphal and seemingly pre-determined march to the OGM throne, especially after 2018 where it was clear that he was the judges' favourite (I am not saying he was not a great skater, but there is absolutely no real excitement about something everyone knows is going to happen, and when PCS and GOE are adjusted to a ridiculous and unnecessary extreme to make sure). Ilia Malinin is pretty much the same. So are Madison and Evan. much as I like them.

Some of the best and most exciting competitions tend to be when someone comes from an underdog position (as Alysa did this year, from dropping the sport entirely to WC and beating the favourites), so if someone zooms up from nowhere to topple the expected winners... that's good stuff. But who is there?

 

[cailuj365]

I also love how NBC did a 3-hour Worlds recap show today only to not have any of it be available online afterward. Fantastic timing.

I wouldn't worry about the US not being into some domination narrative, lol. Maybe for Nathan or Ilia's figure skating fan critics, they see their journeys as completely boring and pre-ordained, but I don't think the US media and/or public will care about that and they'd just revel in the win. If Ilia continues to be the frontrunner by the time of Milano, NBC will have crafted some story about how it's not about if he wins or by what margin, but if it's going to be a history-making moment. Besides, America (or any country really) loves seeing one of their own completely obliterate the competition and put on a show. See Team USA basketball in Paris 2024. But also, Nathan Chen absolutely flopping in the SP in 2018 is a good example of nothing being guaranteed in figure skating. The narratives can change extremely quickly.

 

[Magill]

I also love how NBC did a 3-hour Worlds recap show today only to not have any of it be available online afterward. Fantastic timing.

I wouldn't worry about the US not being into some domination narrative, lol. Maybe for Nathan or Ilia's figure skating fan critics, they see their journeys as completely boring and pre-ordained, but I don't think the US media and/or public will care about that and they'd just revel in the win. If Ilia continues to be the frontrunner by the time of Milano, NBC will have crafted some story about how it's not about if he wins or by what margin, but if it's going to be a history-making moment. Besides, America (or any country really) loves seeing one of their own completely obliterate the competition and put on a show. See Team USA basketball in Paris 2024. But also, Nathan Chen absolutely flopping in the SP in 2018 is a good example of nothing being guaranteed in figure skating. The narratives can change extremely quickly.

And yet nothing of it made Nathan a big star outside of the narrow FS fandom, and, as for now, Ilia is not such a star either, nor in US, nor elsewhere. With all the "quadgod" hype of the past seasons, Alysa has beaten him in views on NBC easily, and by a big margin. And this despite all the obvious pushing for the guy from USFS, ISU, his PR agent, and who else not. AFAIK, these last two weeks in Stars on Ice Japan he was not even offered to open the show, this distinction went to Jason Brown who followed in the footsteps of Yuzuru Hanyu, Shoma Uno and, yes, Nathan Chen.... Again, despite the obvious push to make Japanese audiences warm up to Malinin by making him the only non-Japanese skater to take part in the otherwise all-Japanese-stars press conference (which looked pretty silly TBH, as he was so obviously out of place there).
So it seems expressing an ambition to be a "global celebrity", like he did just before Worlds, does not really bring him much closer to this goal and, in fact, makes him look a bit silly when he self-compares himself to the likes of Ronaldo or Messi, of all people, at this stage of his career
His declared fans might be blind to it but in terms of PR Ilia Malinin is his own worst enemy as he obviously lacks the natural feel for it, for what to say and when, the natural charisma and the mysterious "IT" factor no real stardom can really go without in the end of the day. Alysa, OTOH, has plenty of it all, plus a great come back story to make people warm up to her.

 

[Mathman]

Well... I don't know about all that.

First, Nathan Chen was not a "judges' favorite" in the sense of teacher's pet. When he delivered his quads he got10 points for this and 11 points for that and 12 points for something else and ended uo way ahead of everybody else. When he missed, like in the 2018 Olympic SP, the judges cheerfully buried him down un17th place as appropriate. Same with Yuzuru Hanyu. He was not a "judges' favorite" he just skated better than everyone else. Patrick Chan? He was roasted by fans of other skaters for winning competitions with performances that sometimes had a fall or other viisible mistake. That wasn't "favoritism" it was -- 10 points for this, 11 points for that, throw in some big SS points and there you are.

Don't like Ilia Malinin s personality? Too. braggy? Too exuberant? Mot as famous as Ronaldo? Meh, whatever.

Do you think that Chen deserved only 8.75 instead of 9.50 in choreography? Again, whatever. Do you think hat all these modern kids are not as marvelous as the stupendous, colossal Gillis Graftstrom wirth three Olymoc gold medals? Whatever.

Sometimes it seems like if your friends are "skating fans," you don't need any enemies.

As for the Alysa Liu phenomenon, good for her for her accomplishments. Will the American public care? I think that this is the problem -- figure skating in the U.S. has fallen so deeply into it's"niche," that it is beyond the power of any individual skater to dig it out, be she ever so talented, ever so sparkling, ever so female. Well, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[cailuj365]

And yet nothing of it made Nathan a big star outside of the narrow FS fandom, and, as for now, Ilia is not such a star either, nor in US, nor elsewhere. With all the "quadgod" hype of the past seasons, Alysa has beaten him in views on NBC easily, and by a big margin. And this despite all the obvious pushing for the guy from USFS, ISU, his PR agent, and who else not. AFAIK, these last two weeks in Stars on Ice Japan he was not even offered to open the show, this distinction went to Jason Brown who followed in the footsteps of Yuzuru Hanyu, Shoma Uno and, yes, Nathan Chen.... Again, despite the obvious push to make Japanese audiences warm up to Malinin by making him the only non-Japanese skater to take part in the otherwise all-Japanese-stars press conference (which looked pretty silly TBH, as he was so obviously out of place there).
So it seems expressing an ambition to be a "global celebrity", like he did just before Worlds, does not really bring him much closer to this goal and, in fact, makes him look a bit silly when he self-compares himself to the likes of Ronaldo or Messi, of all people, at this stage of his career
His declared fans might be blind to it but in terms of PR Ilia Malinin is his own worst enemy as he obviously lacks the natural feel for it, for what to say and when, the natural charisma and the mysterious "IT" factor no real stardom can really go without in the end of the day. Alysa, OTOH, has plenty of it all, plus a great come back story to make people warm up to her.

Uh... according to Jason Brown's recent instagram on the SOI Japan show, he's like 4th in the starting order. The person who closes the show before the final group number? Ilia Malinin.

Ilia also cannot be a global celebrity (not even a national celebrity or any kind of household name) before going to the Olympics. World titles are a drop in the bucket compared to the Olympics. Even if he wins the Olympics, that would only be the beginning, and if he retires right after and leaves the spotlight like all the recent US Olympic champions before him (Nathan Chen, Evan Lysacek, Davis/White, Sarah Hughes), he will have changed nothing for figure skating. If he is interested in changing anything (and whatever about his Messi comments, not gonna happen, but let the kid dream and it sure is provocative), he would need to keep going and he would need someone like Alysa or a popular women's champion to help him. I've said this before.

Lastly, Alysa had a skate that had 3.1 million views. Good for her!!! She had the skate of her life, and she had the best, most exuberant skate against all odds and that deserves all the views. Last year, Ilia had a skate that had 3.2 milllion views (yes, actually slightly more than Alysa's). Good for him!!! He had the skate of his life and broke a world record, and it deserves all the views. I say that 2 million views for his Vampire FS given that it wasn't a world record and wasn't a perfect skate is still pretty impressive. Last year, he had an interview on Good Morning America that has 150K+ views. This year, he and Alysa only managed 35K views for their Today show interview together, which of course was taken down, because NBC are terrible people, but sure, more people are definitely more interested in Alysa? No, it seems to me that the US is just interested in GREAT wins.

But, seriously, we could have Michelle Kwan or Brian Boitano themselves come back and skate a blinder at the World Championships, and their skates would not be kept up on US YouTube. This is truly the major problem in the US right now, not the skaters, not the performances, but the copyright.

 

[cailuj365]

Also, I always see this sentiment that Nathan Chen did nothing for the popularity of US figure skating. IMO, he saved it from being in the absolute ditches and kept it relevant for NBC to keep figure skating on the air. Without him, the US would have only had a handful of medals in ice dance for like 10 years, and this sport really would have lost all relevance to the US public.

 

[Jeanie19]

Also, I always see this sentiment that Nathan Chen did nothing for the popularity of US figure skating. IMO, he saved it from being in the absolute ditches and kept it relevant for NBC to keep figure skating on the air. Without him, the US would have only had a handful of medals in ice dance for like 10 years, and this sport really would have lost all relevance to the US public.

And having 3 disciplines winning gold going into the Olympic season should help with some hype. And possibly having 3 pairs teams, so all 4 disciplines being fully represented would be amazing.

 

[Magill]

Uh... according to Jason Brown's recent instagram on the SOI Japan show, he's like 4th in the starting order.

Just to clarify. For all I know, the opening number in SOI Japan is always a group number, traditionally started by a single skater, usually the greatest star of the show, appearing first on the ice and skating solo for a little while, just to be joined this while later by the remaining cast. This is what I was referring to and this has nothing to do with the subsequent skating order to which you are referring.
As for the last week's SOI shows, whoever was the first one or the last one to skate proved basically inconsequential as everyone is talking about Mao Asada only anyway.
Just another occasion when a retired skater, long time no see on SOI, stole the whole show from the full crop of current champions proving who really is the star and who is stil just aspiring to be. And, no, FYI, Mao has never won any Olympics.
End of

 

[el henry]

I don't think it has ever happened for an American man ("It" being pre-Olympic type that induced American audiences to watch the Olympics.). The closest was probably Brian Boitano and the "Battle of the Brians" -- ooh, fierce! Boitano and Scott Hamilton are the only two U.S. men skaters that the general public has ever heard of, and both became famous only as pros, from made-for-TV specials and pro tours, plus being producers. Kristi Yamaguchi was also more famous as a pro than as an Olympian.

I would argue "it" happened with Scott Hamilton, before any SOI or media opportunities. Scott was also energetic and outgoing. He wasn't breaking any records, but he was so happy to win gold and he was all about gold for the USA. That means more in terms of "promotion" (not saying it's right or fair, I am saying it does).

Of course that is ancient history, buried in the mists of time.

 

[Arigato]

So it seems expressing an ambition to be a "global celebrity", like he did just before Worlds, does not really bring him much closer to this goal and, in fact, makes him look a bit silly when he self-compares himself to the likes of Ronaldo or Messi, of all people, at this stage of his career

Where did he post that?

 

[Mathman]

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with a figure skater hoping to make a mark on his sport, even as these soccer players have excelled in theirs.

 

[Mathman]

As for the last week's SOI shows, whoever was the first one or the last one to skate proved basically inconsequential as everyone is talking about Mao Asada only anyway.

Bingo. Fans of figure skatingwould rather watch Mao Asada skate than any current Olympic eligible. So would I.

 

[Mathman]

I would argue "it" happened with Scott Hamilton, before any SOI or media opportunities. Scott was also energetic and outgoing. He wasn't breaking any records, but he was so happy to win gold and he was all about gold for the USA. That means more in terms of "promotion" (not saying it's right or fair, I am saying it does).

Scott Hamilton was the Billie Jean King of figure skating. He made people notice that men skate, too, just as King did in women's tennis.

The funny thing about the 1984 Olympics was that Brian Orser outskated Scott Hamilton and won both the short program and the long, leaving audiences to react... "huh?" What was cleverly concealed by the TV commentators was the fact that Hamilton had already won the gold medal when Orser finished 7th in figures, and the rest was just exhibition.

A similar situation happened in ladies in 1992. The pre-Olympic ballyhoo was Midori Ito (spunk and triple Axel, and furthermore figures were gone by that time, which had held Ito back in the pst) against Kristi Yamaguchi (spunk and grace). Scott Hamilton. commentating on American TV, was asked, when Kristi messed up her triple Salchow in the free skate, "So, will that take her out of the running for the gold medal?" and Scott seriously intoned, "It could." Oh the drama.

No it couldn't., Scott. Kristi would have won anyway even if Midori had hit her fist triple Axel attempt and skated lights out, because she had finished 4th in the SP and Kristi could have coasted to 2nd and still won on factored placements. (In the short program Ito had been startled by Surya Bonaly doing a backflip in her face in the warm-ups. Ito abandoned the planned triple Axel and substituted a triple Lutz -- which the fell on.)

In hose days the TV folks were always careful not to spoil the suspense of heir programming by explaining the scoring rules. That's one advantage of the IJS. You score more points than the other guys, you win. What's not to understand?

 

[synesthesia]

Bingo. Fans of figure skatingwould rather watch Mao Asada skate than any current Olympic eligible. So would I.

According to a fan, who attended shows in Osaka and Sapporo, the skaters who received the biggest standing ovations were both Maos, Kana and Daisuke, Kazuki, Shun, Kaori and Jason - so there were four current Olympic eligibles among them. The biggest factor is that even Japanese skating fans/audiences, known for supporting athletes of all nationalities, favor their own skaters (as most audiences do). Highly artistic skaters, like Jason, are outliers who are universally beloved:

https://x.com/Chaosice4/status/1911296342980542637



In Mao Asada's case, not only the fact that she is beloved by most figure skating fans (I am one of them), but also her nine-year absence from Stars on Ice Japan played a role in why the initial promotion focused almost exclusively on her. Still, apparently ticket sales didn't go as well as the organizers had hoped, because five weeks before the shows, Kana and Daisuke were added to the lineup, and then the promotion shifted to the narrative that Mao and Daisuke would be performing/collaborating together at SOI for the first time in nine years. (And despite this incentive, the Osaka shows were not sold out.) As for Mao being the only skater talked about - I can't confirm that based on my sns timelines. I've also seen fan reports/comments about Kaori, Kana and Daisuke, Kazuki, Amber, Jason and Ilia. It really depends on where you look/who you follow.

 

[cailuj365]

Just to clarify. For all I know, the opening number in SOI Japan is always a group number, traditionally started by a single skater, usually the greatest star of the show, appearing first on the ice and skating solo for a little while, just to be joined this while later by the remaining cast. This is what I was referring to and this has nothing to do with the subsequent skating order to which you are referring.
As for the last week's SOI shows, whoever was the first one or the last one to skate proved basically inconsequential as everyone is talking about Mao Asada only anyway.
Just another occasion when a retired skater, long time no see on SOI, stole the whole show from the full crop of current champions proving who really is the star and who is stil just aspiring to be. And, no, FYI, Mao has never won any Olympics.
End of

Wow, are you telling me, that a Japanese 2x Olympian and 3x World champion and beloved skater who skated for 10+ years and also made her mark in figure skating and who has garnered a lot of sympathy (possibly even more because she didn't get that OGM) and respect over the years, who doesn't do a lot of shows, skates at Stars on Ice JAPAN and gets big applause and adoration from a Japanese audience, perhaps more so than the new guy from America who just started his senior career a few years ago?! Shocking. Was this thread about the US general public or Stars on Ice Japan??

 

[skatingfan4ever]

You know, the more I read this thread, the more I realize that discovering favorite skaters seems to better maintain one's engagement with the sport. At least, that's how it's been for me. The biggest ones, for me, have been Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, Andrew Torgashev, and Jason Brown. This may shock some of you, but I liked both Yuna Kim and Mao Asada and enjoyed Joannie Rochette. (Vancouver podium forever!) I was a Kwan fan, but I could see Tara Lipinski's qualities too. I enjoyed Sasha Cohen, even though she made so many jump mistakes, and Sarah Hughes was nice to watch too.

Growing up, I focused on Ladies, mostly, and I have only scattered memories of the other disciplines. I didn't start caring about Ice Dance at all until the "North American revolution" (i.e. Belbin/Agosto, Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, etc, plus I was fascinated that all three teams trained in Michigan together back then). I followed those three through their careers, and along came the ShibSibs and I followed them too. Initially, IJS greatly helped my enjoyment of Ice Dance.

Patrick captured me in his first Senior season (he was so young!) and I still love his skating to this day. Patrick and Jason started competing together, and Jason reminded me of Patrick in some ways but had a different flair. Like Patrick, Jason has had a long career, growing from boy to man on the ice.

When Patrick stopped competing, I was not sure if or when I'd find another favorite to that level. I liked Nathan's skating eventually, but not right away. But I kept watching this amazing sport, and I discovered Andrew Torgashev's comeback story at 2023 Nationals and his skating hooked me.

In my anecdotal evidence, I have said very little about scores or results. That's not the primary reason I watch competitive figure skating. I watch because I enjoy watching skating itself. I am always on the lookout for skaters and programs that I might like, and it's a pleasant surprise when I find those. I don't focus on the results because I know I have no control so I don't find it productive or a good use of my time to talk endlessly about scores or tech calls. Several pages ago, I shared about how I am sharing skating with my friend, which has nothing to do with the results of competitions. I like what I like, and that's good enough for me.

So, it all depends on why you choose to watch figure skating, aided by whether there are skaters you choose to follow because they fulfill what you enjoy about skating. (And it helps when they can avoid injuries). There's no guarantee I'll find another favorite when Jason and Andrew stop competing, but I thought it would take longer when Patrick stopped competing and it didn't. Plus, though Men is my favorite these days, I do watch all the disciplines, which I wouldn't and couldn't do growing up. (For all Peacock's flaws, and the ISU stream's flaws, it does allow us to watch entire segments and see the lower-ranked skaters). There's bound to be a few interesting skaters/programs across four disciplines to sink my teeth into each season. I go in knowing I won't enjoy everything but expecting to enjoy something. And the results are beyond my control anyway, so I focus on my personal enjoyment instead.

But I am only one person. Thank you for reading my somewhat long TED Talk.