Programs you want to comeback for the Olympic season? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Programs you want to comeback for the Olympic season?

:shrug: Why does a great musician like Glenn Gould perform the same pieces over and over (and people like me and mine buy those performances over and over)? For those who are that great, there are always nuances of interpretation, shades of difference. For the not so great majority, there is the familiarity and feel that may make that fractional difference to their skates at the moment they really really need it.

We the fans, after all, aren't the ones reaching for Olympic glory in one of the few sports where doing the same thing as before is even noticed...

True, but both pieces are close to his heart - both are included in his shows and Seimei (which he has called his masterpiece) is pretty much always the encore. And every performance is inimitable - I don't believe you can say that about many other skaters, either.

I am content to leave it in their own hands.
The analogy is limited because skaters are competitive athletes. The main reason for their performance is not to please the great public with fine nuances of the same program but to win medals.

I saw Hanyu skate Seimei live. I agree it is his best program. I didn't have a problem with him performing it over and over and over, until it no longer worked for me. After a time, it didn't feel special to me anymore. Of course, that's me... but it can do this to fans.... many like S/D's Dune right now... but if they keep it another year, fans may not appreciate it as much as they did this year. I won't even mention that some of the programs repeated by many skaters, including Hanyu's are not to the same level as Seimei or other great pieces. So imagine, getting the same program when it's not even "that' good to start with.

My position is certainly that I would like "all new programs" every year... but where I agree with you is that skaters are the ones deciding... money can be a factor too.. . not just comfort or masterpiece level...
 
The analogy is limited because skaters are competitive athletes. The main reason for their performance is not to please the great public with fine nuances of the same program but to win medals.
This is of course not true for Yuzuru who is 2 x OGM but most skaters do not win medals and they know they will not come back home with a Worlds gold. Who knows then what is the main reason behind their performances and them staying in the sport? Perhaps connection with the audience and their appreciation is more important to them than you seem to think? Figure skating is really very different in this aspect from most other sports. In most sports you mostly win the big public love when you win the medals, in FS - not necessarily so and there is a lot of space for fan appreciation even for those outside the podiums.
With no relation to repeating programs or not, but it makes me think of Katia Kurakova who received a standing ovation at the Boston Worlds when skating in, I think, the first FS group. Even if she had a better SP, she would not have been in a mix for medals anyway. And she is truly loved by a big part of the public who do not care for her TES deficits, just enjoy the performance aspect and her happy, bubbling personality. I am pretty sure this appreciation is really important and rewarding to her, especially in the absence of medals and appreciation from the judges. So, yes, I think pleasing the public is also important, also from the point of view of the organizers, if they expect this public to pay for tickets which it seems they do.

To go back to the main question, I think a few selected iconic programs become legendary like evergreen hits in live music performances, and most of the public is happy to see them whenever they can, especially that there are not so many events most of them can actually watch in person so it is not like they can see them live every time they are skated anyway. The number of people going back to rewatch these programs over and over on YouTube throughout the years may point to this. Which, of course, is not true for each and every member of the said public, like in any other case, you cannot make everyone happy. :)
Seimei, of course, is one of these very few most iconic programmes in the sport. Like it or not, thousands of people filling Saitama Super Arena still scream with enthusiasm and rise to their feet each year when they hear the first chord, and they seem to never get tired of it, no matter if it is the first or xth time for them to see it... So it seems it is still doing it for them. Not so many skaters with their programmes, new or old, would be able to fill Saitama, and do it on their own, these days, so let it speak for itself. ;)
Speaking of which I'd be happy to see Kevin skate to Bolero, SD to Diuna, Jason to Sinnerman - or, for example, Rika Kihira to Breakfast in Baghdad - any time, any place, no matter which season, or off-season, or any other time, place or circumstance. But I'd be also happy to see each one of them in any other new or old programme of their choice :)
 
This is of course not true for Yuzuru who is 2 x OGM but most skaters do not win medals and they know they will not come back home with a Worlds gold.
There are still competitive athletes first. The OP was comparing repeating programs to a performing artist performances of the same repertoire. Not the same goal and we have been over this many times in various threads. I do not see figure skating as an art form but as a competitive sport. They have some limited things in common but it's superficial. YMMV
With no relation to repeating programs or not, but it makes me think of Katia Kurakova who received a standing ovation at the Boston Worlds when skating in, I think, the first FS group. Even if she had a better SP, she would not have been in a mix for medals anyway. And she is truly loved by a big part of the public who do not care for her TES deficits, just enjoy the performance aspect and her happy, bubbling personality. I am pretty sure this appreciation is really important and rewarding to her, especially in the absence of medals and appreciation from the judges. So, yes, I think pleasing the public is also important, also from the point of view of the organizers, if they expect this public to pay for tickets which it seems they do.
and the public will be pleased with new programs since they like her bubbly personality... :)
To go back to the main question, I think a few selected iconic programs become legendary like evergreen hits in live music performances, and most of the public is happy to see them whenever they can, especially that there are not so many events most of them can actually watch in person so it is not like they can see them live every time they are skated anyway. The number of people going back to rewatch these programs over and over on YouTube throughout the years may point to this. Which, of course, is not true for each and every member of the said public, like in any other case, you cannot make everyone happy. :)
Seimei, of course, is one of these very few most iconic programmes in the sport. Like it or not, thousands of people filling Saitama Super Arena still scream with enthusiasm and rise to their feet each year when they hear the first chord, and they seem to never get tired of it, no matter if it is the first or xth time for them to see it...
As mentioned, I saw it live. Have you ? It's great. But it lost its magic on me because it got repeated so many times. Sorry, I am just like this. It's not about Hanyu, it's about a number of times I will be able to appreciate a program that I have seen so often. Furthermore, I get bored with skaters using the same types of programs over and over... for instance Lilah and Lewis doing yet another party free dance with acrobatics... I like diversity. I like being surprised with something new. That's exactly why I liked Seimei at first. Some fans are like me just like some fans are not. You gotta accept that there is more than one point of view here and that this will not change.
:)
 
Last edited:
Andrew has skated L'Enfer two seasons already. As the original Andrew fangirl :) personally, I would love to see Bloodstream again, but that's not going to happen. IMO he will and should get new programs.

IMO the Olympic season repeats (except for GOATs like Yuzu) are generally repeats from one season, or programs that were cut short by injury or other issues. For example, I don't know if we consider Jason's Spiegel im Spiegel as impacted by his boot issues, and should he try it again? Tarzan on the other hand has had its day, and Rohene needs to come up with another one. ;)
I absolutely love L'Enfer and hope that he finds something similar for his long. I think it suits him so well!
 
There are still competitive athletes first. The OP was comparing repeating programs to a performing artist performances of the same repertoire. Not the same goal and we have been over this many times in various threads. I do not see figure skating as an art form but as a competitive sport. They have some limited things in common but it's superficial. YMMV

and the public will be pleased with new programs since they like her bubbly personality... :)

As mentioned, I saw it live. Have you ? It's great. But it lost its magic on me because it got repeated so many times. Sorry, I am just like this. It's not about Hanyu, it's about a number of times I will be able to appreciate a program that I have seen so often. Furthermore, I get bored with skaters using the same types of programs over and over... for instance Lilah and Lewis doing yet another party free dance with acrobatics... I like diversity. I like being surprised with something new. That's exactly why I liked Seimei at first. Some fans are like me just like some fans are not. You gotta accept that there is more than one point of view here and that this will not change.
:)

I think there is more to it than just number of times watched. I still watch Shoma's 2018 OLYG SP - Vivaldi. I have yet to tire of it.
 
You gotta accept that there is more than one point of view here and that this will not change.
:)
And it works just the same the other way, right? Some people get bored, but some love to get even more of the same great thing and never have enough. I said earlier already you cannot make everyone happy and that's ok. No use to try.
In the end of the day, I guess the skater needs to do what they themselves feel right and hope the crowd goes along with it. As long as the likeminded crowd is big enough to sell out any venue they skate in, as is the case with Yuzu, I guess they're alright and no need to worry much about those of a different mind who will always be there, whatever they do or don't do .... :coffee:
 
Don't totally disagree with you Tally but the difference between a competitive figure skater and a musician performing in a concert is that the musician isn't being judged for medals. Skaters like Hanyu are in a class by themselves and really shouldn't enter into this discussion. But here's another way to look at it.......Jane Doe Anonymous skated to XYZ, the judges saw her probably multiple times between the Gran Prix series. local and international competitions. Perhaps why tempt fate and throw that at them again? Yes it isn't always the same judges but I would bet anything that judges see those programs whether they're in a judges chair or not. If all of you love those programs so much, you can probably find them on YouTube and watch them over and over. I guess it's personal preference but I want to see new and fresh programs in an Olympic year.
 
So we have judges who could tire of programs but not music? Honestly, I think it would make a great viral video if a judge jumped up from their chair, put their hands over their ears, shook their head left and right while shouting, "NO MORE BOLERO!"

(Think of Faye Dunaway in Mommie Dearest when she shouts, "No wire hangers!")
 
Last edited:
The analogy is limited because skaters are competitive athletes. The main reason for their performance is not to please the great public with fine nuances of the same program but to win medals.
Agreed, but somewhat irrelevant? - since 'new music and costume and step sequence' are not at all part of the criteria to win medals. Under IJS rules, a skater could rework the same two pieces every single year for a decade and it should not make a difference. (It may, of course, because judges are human. On the other hand, judges watch waaaaaay more programs than any of us sit through and probably don't rewatch as much on video so a repeated one may not affect them as much as a warhorse. They have handed out a lot of world records to the same programs after all.)

My position is certainly that I would like "all new programs" every year... but where I agree with you is that skaters are the ones deciding... money can be a factor too.. . not just comfort or masterpiece level...
That - money - is an important point, yes. At the elite level new programs with everything they entail (choreography, costumes, practice, and oh god these days music) are not cheap and the vast majority of elite skaters do not have that much in the way of sponsorship, funding or show earnings. Gotta get the maximum bang for each program's buck.

Don't totally disagree with you Tally but the difference between a competitive figure skater and a musician performing in a concert is that the musician isn't being judged for medals. Skaters like Hanyu are in a class by themselves and really shouldn't enter into this discussion. But here's another way to look at it.......Jane Doe Anonymous skated to XYZ, the judges saw her probably multiple times between the Gran Prix series. local and international competitions. Perhaps why tempt fate and throw that at them again? Yes it isn't always the same judges but I would bet anything that judges see those programs whether they're in a judges chair or not.
I know, and I also know said above that the judges shouldn't let it affect them, and I also said they might. Again it's a juggling act. After all, ice dancers have to come up with a new RD every year but I don't think anyone can claim that 'fresh' was on the ice menu this year (oh god if I heard BoneyM one. more. time...) And warhorses are warhorses for a reason (we will, I predict, see a lot of them this year too).

People want to have it both ways, I guess. People want to call our sport a sport first and foremost, but sport does involve doing the same thing over and over and over and over and.... yeah, just better, reaching for perfection. And the current technical demands have given rise to complaints that so many of the skaters, with all their different programs, are blurring into all looking the same.

I guess what I am saying is... I have no problem with watching repeated programs as long as the skater brings something new and fresh to it, or betters it in some way. I wouldn't mind seeing what say Jun and Rino (from my very small collection of saved this year, it was an unimpressive season all told) could do with those lovely ones. Kevin will always do something new with Bolero (and let's be honest, every performance so far has been unique!)

So we have judges that could tire of programs but not music? Honestly, I think it would make a great viral video if a judge jumped up from their chair, put their hands over their ears, shook their head left and right while shouting, "NO MORE BOLERO!"
But people - lots and lots of people - like Bolero. And Phantom of the Opera. And Swan Lake. And.... :slink:
 
Last edited:
PS - before I go off and do the study I have to do today and am avoiding...

Rewatching or relistening to the same things is apparently good for our mental health, said a scientific study in 2023, so all those program repeats? They're just being kind and looking out for us the audience :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
Agreed, but somewhat irrelevant? -
I was simply answering your analogy because it was not relevant indeed. Glad we agree :)
That - money - is an important point, yes. At the elite level new programs with everything they entail (choreography, costumes, practice, and oh god these days music) are not cheap and the vast majority of elite skaters do not have that much in the way of sponsorship, funding or show earnings. Gotta get the maximum bang for each program's buck.
the issue is that one of the examples discussed largely in this thread is not exactly a skater who did struggle financially.
I know, and I also know said above that the judges shouldn't let it affect them, and I also said they might. Again it's a juggling act. After all, ice dancers have to come up with a new RD every year but I don't think anyone can claim that 'fresh' was on the ice menu this year (oh god if I heard BoneyM one. more. time...) And warhorses are warhorses for a reason (we will, I predict, see a lot of them this year too).

People want to have it both ways, I guess. People want to call our sport a sport first and foremost, but sport does involve doing the same thing over and over and over and over and.... yeah, just better, reaching for perfection. And the current technical demands have given rise to complaints that so many of the skaters, with all their different programs, are blurring into all looking the same.
Yes. People want it all. They want the best skated programs but they also want diversity. Tough crowd :)
I guess what I am saying is... I have no problem with watching repeated programs as long as the skater brings something new and fresh to it, or betters it in some way. I wouldn't mind seeing what say Jun and Rino (from my very small collection of saved this year, it was an unimpressive season all told) could do with those lovely ones. Kevin will always do something new with Bolero (and let's be honest, every performance so far has been unique!)
But people - lots and lots of people - like Bolero. And Phantom of the Opera. And Swan Lake. And.... :slink:
This is very in the eye of the beholder. Do some skater bring new things to old programs. Sometimes. Not always. Some programs are better than others to start with. Do I prefer a repeat than a poorly composed new program? Probably. Do I think some programs should not have been repeated but have been ad nauseam ? Definitely.

All of this is personal taste. My first post in this thread said it all. I would like all new programs. It's not a judgment on those who will bring up old programs. It's not a judgment on former skaters who did that as well. Some of my favourite programs were indeed repeated, Some were not. But, if the OP is asking : what programs would you like repeated for the Olympic year ? My answer remains the same : I hope for all new programs. Why would I wish for repeated programs ? I love seeing new costumes, new music, new choreography. Why would anyone wish for repetition ?

Here's my final point : a repeated program prevents fans from something that could have been magical. It doesn't matter that the repeated program was a great one... a new program could have been even better... but we will never know :)

Since you brought the analogy of a great pianist, I will tell you something, from that specific field, every time I learn new repertoire for recitals, it changes me... and I have been doing this forever. It gives me more insight. It changes how I do play things. It shapes my mind in different ways. This is why, and how, when I go to repertoire that I have been playing for years even decades, my interpretation gets often refined, even at times, completely changed. It comes from pursuing discovery with new repertoire. Of course, skaters have a much shorter career. Skaters skate for points. Skaters have required elements they need to train for. So, the analogy is still false IMHO... but just because you brought it up, I thought I would play along and let you know that I play some repertoire so much better and differently than before, because I have explored other repertoire... and the impact of learning new things is greater than sticking to the old, even with refinement opportunities. In that sense, I do admire skaters who reinvent themselves season after season, and especially for an Olympic season.
 
PS - before I go off and do the study I have to do today and am avoiding...

Rewatching or relistening to the same things is apparently good for our mental health, said a scientific study in 2023, so all those program repeats? They're just being kind and looking out for us the audience :biggrin:
Rewatching, relistening can indeed be great to relieve from anxiety.

Discovering new things can be great for those who need to be inspired and relieved from chronic boredom/fatigue.

It all depends what your needs are.
 
But people - lots and lots of people - like Bolero. :slink:
a91de123fec53ba74734197d58213e27.gif
 
I repeat - go watch those old programs on YouTube. They're all out there! I can see using an old program if the skater was injured during the season and didn't skate it all that much. But to me, using an old program is just not being very creative. One would hope that skaters improve from season to season and why not challenge them with something new? And I am now done beating this "dead horse!"
 
Not exactly a comeback, but a musical return/tribute. This is what Tenley Albright skated to when she won the Olympics in Italy:

 
Back
Top