The one spot available for the Milan Olympics?

[Arigato]

Some posts scream, "I need information." While the title reads Paris 2024, it's relevant to other years.

Examining the Political Dynamics Behind Russia’s Paris 2024 Olympics Ban

Russia’s Olympic sanctions aim to limit their precedential value, as the IOC worries about politics increasingly influencing global sports.

www.newamerica.org

 

[Mathman]

^ That was a very interesting and scholarly take on the situation, from the liberal Think Tank organization New America. I see that the author has a master's degree from Stanford in Russian history, as well as a law degree from Columbia, and has served as editorial page editor of he New York Times.

As i understand his main thesis, it is that the reason the IOC came down uniquely on Russia is that Russia had the nerve to invade another country right during the Olympics, while the IOC rules specifically insist that nations must hold off on waging war when the Olympic Games roll around every four years.

Possibly this stance by the IOC can be held to scrutiny from the "tail wagging the dog" perspective? Possibly national dictators and world leaders do not honor the requirements of the "Olympic Truce."

 

[saine]

As i understand his main thesis, it is that the reason the IOC came down uniquely on Russia is that Russia had the nerve to invade another country right during the Olympics, while the IOC rules specifically insist that nations must hold off on waging war when the Olympic Games roll around every four years.

That was the reasoning from the IOC, so it is not a thesis - https://www.olympics.com/ioc/news/i...events-currently-planned-in-russia-or-belarus

It also links to the UN resolution adopted by the UN General Assembly for the truce for the Beijing 2022 Olympics - https://docs.un.org/en/A/RES/76/13

 

[Mathman]

To me, this just adds to the theater of the absurd. The IOC, backed up by the United Nations, solemnly declares that it is naughty to start a war in February but ff you have an itch to kill a million people in May, hey knock yourself out with our blessing. (?)

 

[saine]

To me, this just adds to the theater of the absurd. The IOC, backed up by the United Nations, solemnly declares that it is naughty to start a war in February but ff you have an itch to kill a million people in May, hey knock yourself out with our blessing. (?)

If it's that important for a country to start a war during the Olympics, they can take it up with CAS. When a country participates in the Olympics, they agree to follow the rules, no matter how absurd they may seem to you.

 

[TallyT]

If it's that important for a country to start a war during the Olympics, they can take it up with CAS. When a country participates in the Olympics, they agree to follow the rules, no matter how absurd they may seem to you.

It's also irrelevant outside the time of the Games, because the Games are irrelevant outside the time of the Games, After all, if someone starts a war midquad, what can the IOC do, ban them in 2-3 years time?

 

[Mathman]

The Olympic Truce (f776 BCE) meant that athletes from countries at war would be guaranteed safe passage to participate in the games, and further that rival ccity-states would refrain from attacking the host city while they were distracted by the games.

The modern version (1992 CE) did serve to protect Kristi Yamaguchi from being attacked in Albertville by partisans of the wars in Bosnia and Afghanistan, so that's a useful outcome anyway.

 

[saine]

The Olympic Truce (f776 BCE) meant that athletes from countries at war would be guaranteed safe passage to participate in the games, and further that rival ccity-states would refrain from attacking the host city while they were distracted by the games.

The modern version (1992 CE) did serve to protect Kristi Yamaguchi from being attacked in Albertville by partisans of the wars in Bosnia and Afghanistan, so that's a useful outcome anyway.

If the Olympic truce evolved to encourage countries to keep the fighting to the sports field every two years, I'd rather that that reading absurdity into the original intentions.

At this point, I'm done if this is continuing to read absurdity into what's supposed to encourage some peace in the world.

 

[Mathman]

I.m sorry I used the word :absurd." I should have said "unrealistic." It is unrealistic to expect that Vladimir Putin will hold off from invading Ukraine just because the International Olympic Committee doesn't like the timing of his adventure.

 

[Arigato]

Without rules and laws the world would simply be filled with quasi-animals running loose doing as they please. Including on the ice.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The pairs gold will have an asterisk against it in my opinion. The people who watch once every four years won't care (nor remember who wins pairs one week after the Olympics), but people who follow the sport will understand the best team in the world did not win gold.

Correction: people who follow the sport will understand one of the best teams in the world did not have the opportunity to try to win gold. People acting like Mishina/Galliamov would automatically skate at their best, like none of the other teams themselves would skate well (or even better than they've done in the past). Would I bet against them? Certainly not. But it is not a foregone conclusion they'll rise to the pressure, or happen to have an off day.

If Valieva hadn't been allowed to compete in the 2022 Beijing individual event, people would have claimed the best skater didn't win gold... but she did compete — and didn't even make the podium. If Zagitova hadn't competed at 2018 Worlds, people would have delegitimized Osmond's gold medal because the "de facto" gold medalist was absent... but Zagitova did compete and placed 5th, losing gold by about 16 points even though people might have "understood" her to be the best skater.

 

[Mathman]

rules and laws the world would simply be filled with quasi-animals running loose doing as they please.

Sort of like the world with rules and laws.

 

[Skating91]

If Valieva hadn't been allowed to compete in the 2022 Beijing individual event, people would have claimed the best skater didn't win gold... but she did compete — and didn't even make the podium.

She was 15, had the most devastating news of her life lumped on her after team event, had to sit through hearings at the Olympics, training was interrupted, the world's press were like vultures, she was an emotional wreck (Eteri did her best to stay by her side and give emotional support), in the warm up they were flashing in front of her face on the screens there would be no medal ceremony if Valieva is on the podium. The fact she got out there and competed at 15 despite all of this shows what kind competitor and warrior she is. Still in the short program with all that pressure completed a solid program with just the step out on the triple axel. Extraordinary under the circumstances!

 

[jenaj]

She was 15, had the most devastating news of her life lumped on her after team event, had to sit through hearings at the Olympics, training was interrupted, the world's press were like vultures, she was an emotional wreck (Eteri did her best to stay by her side and give emotional support), in the warm up they were flashing in front of her face on the screens there would be no medal ceremony if Valieva is on the podium. The fact she got out there and competed at 15 despite all of this shows what kind competitor and warrior she is. Still in the short program with all that pressure completed a solid program with just the step out on the triple axel. Extraordinary under the circumstances!

The point is, the favorite doesn't always win. So if the favorite isn't there, there is no reason to add an asterisk.

 

[Arigato]

The fact she got out there and competed at 15 despite all of this shows what kind competitor and warrior she is.

Dopers aren't competitors, they're failures.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She was 15, had the most devastating news of her life lumped on her after team event, had to sit through hearings at the Olympics, training was interrupted, the world's press were like vultures, she was an emotional wreck (Eteri did her best to stay by her side and give emotional support), in the warm up they were flashing in front of her face on the screens there would be no medal ceremony if Valieva is on the podium. The fact she got out there and competed at 15 despite all of this shows what kind competitor and warrior she is. Still in the short program with all that pressure completed a solid program with just the step out on the triple axel. Extraordinary under the circumstances!

Sure, but she could have also not had those circumstances and still failed to deliver.

Also while I felt bad for Valieva not making the podium (not for lack of trying by the judges with their 70.62 PCS), it was definitely a win for figure skating that she wasn't and the ceremony was able to proceed.

Similarly, on a personal level for Petrosian, I hope she skates well and even wins. But for the sake of figure skating (and in the context of Tutberidze's transgressions/the Russian fed's shadinesss/Russia still at war with Ukraine), I'd rather she end up off the podium. If she was with anyone other than Tutberidze I'd have a different disposition about all of it (e.g. I'm not as affronted by Gummenik/Dikidzhi other than the special treatment being made even with the war going on).

If anything Adelia winning would be one of the biggest asterisks because many are going to be questioning the legitimacy after the doping shenanigans in 2022 (and Russia historically at the Olympics, at that). I guess the medal/result is all that matters to them really though and they don't really care about following the rules or not, let alone worry about others questioning if they followed the rules or not.

 

[Mathman]

That was the reasoning from the IOC, so it is not a thesis - https://www.olympics.com/ioc/news/i...events-currently-planned-in-russia-or-belarus

It also links to the UN resolution adopted by the UN General Assembly for the truce for the Beijing 2022 Olympics - https://docs.un.org/en/A/RES/76/13

I was willing to let it go, but I just took the time to actually read these two documents that the whole kit and kaboodle seems to be based on.

The UN resolution consists on one sentence which rambles on and on with, frankly, meaningless platitudes for 17 pages, referencing the Delphic Oracle and who knows what else, and concludes that the U.N. would "welcome" a decision by any nation that wished to to observe a pause in battlefield hostilities around the time of the Olympics.

The IOC document is titled "(The IOC) urges all International Federations to relocate or cancel their sports events currently planned in Russia and Belerus."

And that’s just what it does, along with some mumbly-pumbly about expressing concerns and about appointing a task force to monitor the situation, blah blah blah.

I confess I am disappointed in this thin gruel.

 

[TallyT]

She was 15, had the most devastating news of her life lumped on her after team event, had to sit through hearings at the Olympics, training was interrupted, the world's press were like vultures, she was an emotional wreck (Eteri did her best to stay by her side and give emotional support), in the warm up they were flashing in front of her face on the screens there would be no medal ceremony if Valieva is on the podium. The fact she got out there and competed at 15 despite all of this shows what kind competitor and warrior she is. Still in the short program with all that pressure completed a solid program with just the step out on the triple axel. Extraordinary under the circumstances!

None of which, whether true or not, whether she was brave or not, is relevant.

 

[Mathman]

None of which, whether true or not, whether she was brave or not, is relevant.

Valieva messed up, whether of her own volition or under pressure from the powerful adults who were in charge of her career. She paid the price. The end.

For me, I cannot dismiss this thought: If someone cheats at sports, the result is that one person gets a prize that they don't deserve and another person is deprived of a prize that they did deserve. Both go on with their lives, one gloating about having gotten away with something, the other full of righteous indignation.

Now compare this to war. The victims do not go on with their lives. They are dead.

I wish we wouldn't conflate these two issues as if they exist on the same moral plane.

 

[Tutto]

Is there a precedent when a skater who skated in the first group in SP (or even actually skated under No1 ) then would end winning OGM?

I know of a few debutants who won the Worlds but they would have been building their resume with the judges the whole season leading to the Worlds. To enter the Olympics as a no-name and win? I think some of you are dreaming.
Regardless of Adelia's tech content, I have a full confidence in all the tools such as PCS, GOE, <, <<, ! etc, which judges got at their disposal to get to a desirable score beautifully.
For those who are still in doubt, please refer to Mikhail Shaidorov (yes, he did succeed in the end but it took him how many competitions to skate his content consistently?)
I have no doubt Adelia will get a pass in China, the Olympics will be a different story, just my humble opinion...