The role of fans in shaping skaters’ careers

[TallyT]

There's also another type of fan to be considered, those of the sport rather than of particular athletes.

Some countries skaters have far better facilities and access to coaches, equipment etc because they are in countries where a higher proportion of the general public follow or are fans of the sport itself even if not of specific skaters. Whereas for others (South America, India, Indonesia, all those countries of the little juniors we are seeing at the minute, including mine), there are less fans of skating, the facilities and funding isn't there and the chances of a successful career are definitely impacted (it's not impossible, but much harder and less likely to reach the top.) And when they are held back by this, their skating suffers, they don't get the profile to attract more fans...

 

[rabidline]

Another trend these days that I see is some people treating fandom activities as activism.

Because of the consumerism and the decline in financial capability, some people cannot accept that their fandom activities are simply a hobby or simply entertainment. That they do this to simply have fun, to be entertained, to enjoy the moment and the art. No, they need fandom activities to mean something, to raise their moral and social value, because they have invested and spent so much of their time, energy and (most importantly) money in it.

So it's not enough to do something good and let that thing be a good thing. No, every activity in the fandom has to be a moral deed. So with that comes the witch hunts. No, we are not supporting X person and Y person because they are bad people. The badness range from actual criminal charges to personal ideology to a like on social media posts to claims of laziness. "No, you shouldn't support them, they are lazy. They don't want to improve. They are corrupted. They came from a rich family. They are homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, racist, conservative, radical, extremist. They are associating with problematic people. They don't like their fans. They bully other skaters. They are NOT. GOOD. PEOPLE."

And on the flipside, the people latch on to things that feel meaningful to them. "Because I support Z person, I have contributed to ABC cause, therefore my fandom activities are morally good. Therefore I. AM. A. GOOD. PERSON. Therefore I can do anything that I want, because I am better than those other people who don't do that, or not inspired enough in their fandom activity to do that."

I mean, I'm all for supporting people leading to supporting good causes. But also this is... sports. Only 1 person/team can win the whole competition, only 3 people/teams can be on the podium. Of course there are fan favorites, I have loved watching skaters who have zero chance of making it to the podium. But like... no amount of donations or contributions can help the skater not fall on their asses when shit happens on ice. If it makes the fans feel better about the time and energy and money spent doing this, then great! Wonderful! But again, it's not a replacement for actual shit that goes down in competitions.

(And not gonna lie sometimes I go... do some fans actually enjoy what they're watching from the skaters, or do some fans just exist in the fandom because they want to feel better about themselves as people.)

 

[Arigato]

 

[Wynter]

Another trend these days that I see is some people treating fandom activities as activism.

Because of the consumerism and the decline in financial capability, some people cannot accept that their fandom activities are simply a hobby or simply entertainment. That they do this to simply have fun, to be entertained, to enjoy the moment and the art. No, they need fandom activities to mean something, to raise their moral and social value, because they have invested and spent so much of their time, energy and (most importantly) money in it.

So it's not enough to do something good and let that thing be a good thing. No, every activity in the fandom has to be a moral deed. So with that comes the witch hunts. No, we are not supporting X person and Y person because they are bad people. The badness range from actual criminal charges to personal ideology to a like on social media posts to claims of laziness. "No, you shouldn't support them, they are lazy. They don't want to improve. They are corrupted. They came from a rich family. They are homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, racist, conservative, radical, extremist. They are associating with problematic people. They don't like their fans. They bully other skaters. They are NOT. GOOD. PEOPLE."

And on the flipside, the people latch on to things that feel meaningful to them. "Because I support Z person, I have contributed to ABC cause, therefore my fandom activities are morally good. Therefore I. AM. A. GOOD. PERSON. Therefore I can do anything that I want, because I am better than those other people who don't do that, or not inspired enough in their fandom activity to do that."

I mean, I'm all for supporting people leading to supporting good causes. But also this is... sports. Only 1 person/team can win the whole competition, only 3 people/teams can be on the podium. Of course there are fan favorites, I have loved watching skaters who have zero chance of making it to the podium. But like... no amount of donations or contributions can help the skater not fall on their asses when shit happens on ice. If it makes the fans feel better about the time and energy and money spent doing this, then great! Wonderful! But again, it's not a replacement for actual shit that goes down in competitions.

(And not gonna lie sometimes I go... do some fans actually enjoy what they're watching from the skaters, or do some fans just exist in the fandom because they want to feel better about themselves as people.)

You’re not really talking about fandom here, you’re talking about people. Everyone sees things differently because they grow up with different moral and social values. Just joining a fandom isn’t going to change those core values.

Since people have different moral and social values, they’re going to react differently to certain issues. If someone doesn’t like abuse, they won’t tolerate the abusive side of figure skating. If someone identifies as LGBT, they won’t put up with homophobia, transphobia, and so on. And that’s completely fine. I don’t see a problem with people saying, “I can’t support the Eteri camp because they’re abusive” or “I can’t support Yagudin because he’s homophobic.”

I also don’t think fans support skaters just because they expect great competition results. Most of the GoFundMe campaigns I’ve seen are for lower-ranked skaters who don’t have enough support to compete. If that support helps them do well, then great — that’s just a bonus. But I’ve never seen fans get mad at Deniss (for example) for not medaling at Worlds, even though he’s had a GoFundMe for years.

 

[rabidline]

You’re not really talking about fandom here, you’re talking about people. Everyone sees things differently because they grow up with different moral and social values. Just joining a fandom isn’t going to change those core values.

Yes, well. That's why I said "Another trend I see is some people treating fandom activities as activism..."

It's about people, but if those people identify themselves as fans, I think it's also relevant to the discussion as it impacts their roles.

 

[Wynter]

Yes, well. That's why I said "Another trend I see is some people treating fandom activities as activism..."

It's about people, but if those people identify themselves as fans, I think it's also relevant to the discussion as it impacts their roles.

I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t really agree. Once you frame it around “fans,” it shifts the focus away from individual responsibility and makes it sound like fandom itself changes people’s values. To me, it’s still about people at the core — their personal morals and choices — not the label they happen to use. Being a fan might shape how they express their support, but it doesn’t redefine the underlying values they already hold.

 

[Arigato]

The End of My Love Affair with the Figure Skating Fandom

When my sheltered twelve-year-old self set up a Twitter account on my mom’s laptop, I thought it would be a fun way to contact my favorite figure skaters, wish them good luck, and maybe even get a …

madforskating.wordpress.com

 

[rabidline]

I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t really agree. Once you frame it around “fans,” it shifts the focus away from individual responsibility and makes it sound like fandom itself changes people’s values. To me, it’s still about people at the core — their personal morals and choices — not the label they happen to use. Being a fan might shape how they express their support, but it doesn’t redefine the underlying values they already hold.

Exactly. And how they express their support as a fan is something that is relevant to the discussion.

Back to my other post, I think people can express their support to others in any way, but I think when the people start thinking that it's their responsibility to support others, especially people they don't know outside of a fan & athlete context, it can get a bit awry. It's not a skating exclusive problem, it's showing up in how entertainment is generally consumed these days, with the emphasis on numbers to show support. For some people, their money simply must go to a cause, it's not simply paying money for entertainment.

Of course it's great if the people are able to channel that energy positively without strings attached. But at times I do observe some entitlement for the support that has been given, because it's not just support, it's support for "something" (usually a good cause). So there is this desire for... acknowledgement, or even validation. Not just from the people they supported, but from others. Validation of what? I think some people really need to be acknowledged that they are good people with good moral values and judgement who do good deeds. Hence the desire to support the "good" people. Hence the hackles rising up when the concept of "fans of good people are good people too, those who are not good are not fans" itself is questioned.

My opinion likely stems from the fact that I have limited ability to provide or show support, so I can't really worry about things I can't control. And I'm still approaching entertainment, art and sports as something I find enjoyment from consuming and discussing, not necessarily a thing I do to show my moral values. I mean if I prioritize showing good morals, I wouldn't get interested in this sport in the first place but I guess it's why some people who do fandom activities related to the sport are adamant that they are not fans of the sport.

 

[Arigato]

I guess it's why some people who do fandom activities related to the sport are adamant that they are not fans of the sport.

If that is actually true, maybe some should consider worshiping people elsewhere and leave this sport to those who love it.

 

[Magill]

Unfortunately and very sadly, when you're a public figure you basically give up your privacy to a certain extent. And I think that's been more apparent since the dawn of the internet where you can find out just about anything about anybody with the click of a few keys. So and so is having dinner at a restaurant and several people video it, put it out on the internet and the next thing you know there's a crowd of people waiting to see them. Years ago there was no way to communicate this kind of intrusion. The sense of a skater "belonging" to their fans is ludicrous. The only thing a skater owes to the fans is when they're on the ice competing. Their private lives, who they are dating, where they go to school, how often they practice, yada! yada! yada! really isn't any business of any fan. If they choose to have a meet and greet or walk on the concourse and meet people - that's THEIR choice. If a person chooses to donate to their training, etc. it should be done with no strings attached in my opinion. I have several skaters who I really, really like but I would never impose upon them for a picture or an autograph or a chat - unless they put themselves forth to do that And what I think promotes a skater is their skating!!

This makes me think back to the 60s and the Beatles and how people always knew where they were and where to flock for autographs and such while having no internet, no even mobile phones, well, not even landlines for everyone, lol. So while I agree internet has made things much easier for fans they had some ways to find it all out even earlier which always puzzled me from strictly technical pov. How were they doing it?
OTOH, I always found it most amusing that Paul McCartney had a van going around the woods surrounding his secluded home at dusk collecting fans who got lost in the said woods and giving them a ride to the train station., Now, that is some gallantry !!!!

 

[Wynter]

Exactly. And how they express their support as a fan is something that is relevant to the discussion.

Back to my other post, I think people can express their support to others in any way, but I think when the people start thinking that it's their responsibility to support others, especially people they don't know outside of a fan & athlete context, it can get a bit awry. It's not a skating exclusive problem, it's showing up in how entertainment is generally consumed these days, with the emphasis on numbers to show support. For some people, their money simply must go to a cause, it's not simply paying money for entertainment.

The argument lost depth when you took out the individuality and simply labeled those people as fans.

I don’t think most fans support athletes because they feel responsible for them. People support because they want to, not because they feel they have to. It comes from enjoyment, admiration, or just wanting to help someone they like see more opportunities. Responsibility suggests an obligation, but fandom is voluntary by nature. Nobody’s forced to donate, buy tickets, or cheer.

 

[rabidline]

If that is actually true, maybe some should consider worshiping people elsewhere and leave this sport to those who love it.

I think it's more complex than that.

For me, figure skating fans being called out as "bad" or "rude" or "mean" or "slanderous" or "exploitative" from how they behaved, doesn't really bother me enough to stop identifying myself as a fan or enthusiast of the sport. But also, I don't really have time or energy to do something about them, so that contributes to my passiveness on it. I just avoid interacting or doing things that may attract attention from some people.

But for other people, it may be that their self-identification as fans defines a lot of who they are as individuals, and so any doubt or attack on the fans are immediately blamed on other individual people, because it's important that the "fans" stay "good" . Or the opposite happens, the people separate themselves from the fans in order to preserve their "goodness" away from those fans.

One of the things I notice (and was surprised about) is how there are a lot of behavior policing that happens within fan communities. How to behave, what to say, what to do, so that the fans collectively are deemed as "good" because it also allows them to separate from other fans. We see attempts of it on forums and other forms of social media too, but within closed groups it's also happening.

 

[Anna K.]

And it is worth mentioning here Deniss Vasiljevs is crowdfunding right now for his Olympic season.

He's not. This has been clarified by his team:
[when speaking] to Sportacentrs.com, Vasiljevs' manager Trevizan also denied reports that Vasiljevs is collecting donations ahead of the Olympic season due to financial difficulties, stating that this was a misunderstanding.

Latvijas daiļslidošanas zvaigzne Vasiļjevs atliek olimpiskās sezonas sākumu

"Ilgstošās problēmas ar Latvijas Slidošanas asociāciju ir mani spēcīgi iespaidojušas," informēja Deniss Vasiļjevs

sportacentrs.com

There is available Google translation for the entire article.

 

[Anna K.]

[...] for others (South America, India, Indonesia, all those countries of the little juniors we are seeing at the minute, including mine), there are less fans of skating, the facilities and funding isn't there and the chances of a successful career are definitely impacted (it's not impossible, but much harder and less likely to reach the top.) And when they are held back by this, their skating suffers, they don't get the profile to attract more fans...

Mark Hanretty is doing a terrific job as a JGP commentator when he tells the stories about the struggles of these juniors and brings them to potential fans' attention.
Just saying.

 

[Magill]

He's not. This has been clarified by his team:
[when speaking] to Sportacentrs.com, Vasiljevs' manager Trevizan also denied reports that Vasiljevs is collecting donations ahead of the Olympic season due to financial difficulties, stating that this was a misunderstanding.

Latvijas daiļslidošanas zvaigzne Vasiļjevs atliek olimpiskās sezonas sākumu

"Ilgstošās problēmas ar Latvijas Slidošanas asociāciju ir mani spēcīgi iespaidojušas," informēja Deniss Vasiļjevs

sportacentrs.com

There is available Google translation for the entire article.

Oh, I'm happy to hear that his problem got solved. My post was based on this page where he seems to be posting nowadays, and this whole website has been created with the purpose to receive / offer financial support to whoever you wish to support so if you open an account there that's usually why. There is even a list of user accounts who apparently sent money to Deniss. So if it was a misunderstanding, it went quite far. I get it is meant as an additional support and not the main source of funding.

https://ko-fi.com/denissvasiljevs

 

[lariko]

Interestingly, it didn't occur to me at the time, but you can connect dots for Sasha's remarks in alternative way. "Now everyone will have gold but me" plus "you knew all along" can mean the coaches knew of Valieva's positive test and put her in team competition anyway to win team gold (at the time Trusova couldn't have known Valieva would eventually be stripped) versus they knew all along Sasha couldn't win even with the 5-quad load-out and Tutberidze as her coach, not Plushenko. While Trusova didn't win domestically until Valieva's result was annuled, her stock at the time was on the rise (since her powerful test skate), and it was Shcherbakova who struggled all season leading to Olympics, including a subpar performance at Nationals (Tutberidze's team at the time had to demand revision in protocols for not-senior-eligible skater to put Scherbakova into thrid after the short).

What is clear though, is that Trusova addressed her grievances to her coaches specifically, not fans, hence the episode can't be an example of fans' negative influence.

It's more likely that negative pressure from the fans impacted her career earlier, when Trusova returned to Tutberidze after working with Plushenko. Hard to determine how much it contributed, but the lashback was significant.

 

[Mathman]

Well, this is a lively discussion. I find myself on the side of the position that there is nothing wrong with fans except that they are people. Some people are good, some are bad, the great majority are in-between, and everybody has his/her own personal foibles and herd instincts.

Green Bay Packer fans (U.S. football) call themselves cheeseheads and wear foam cheese wedges on their heads at games. Why? Because it's fun to wear a foam cheese wedge on your head. (Hey, it you've never tried it, don't knock it. ) Plus, you get to hang out with a bunch of other people who also have foam cheese wedges on their heads.

As for Golden Skate, there have been only two times when fan wars broke out into excessive hostility. There was a brief time when Mao Asada and Yuna Kim were rivals, and you could hardly log into the Forum without reading about World War II and Korean comfort women. One post I remember particularly went "How can anyone like Yuna Kim? She's ugly, whereas Mao Asada is cute." (Well, at least the poster was half right.)

The other time was when Yuzuru Hanyu fans got so mad at GS for tolerating posts unfavorable to their guy that they stormed off the board en masse and started up their own forum, Planet Hanyu (still going strong, I am happy to say).

 

[Anna K.]

Well, this is a lively discussion.

You know, when I first saw the title of this thread, I felt like: come on, what to discuss? The members of public - be they fans, or on-and-off followers like me, or first-timers - only contribute when they buy the event tickets/streaming subscriptions and this contribution can realistically shape something only if the interest of the public is high enough. Stuff like online comments of interactions with fans are optional for skaters. If it matters for a skater (i.e. the skater uses it as a source of income or a promotion tool for a post-competitive career), then it is the skater's choice, not fans'.

I forgot though that we the forumers didn't see this topic from a skaters perspective but from the perspective of our experience of being a "fan", or "never-a-fan", or whoever we prefer to be and when it came to personal experience with crazy people who apparently believe that they are shaping careers... or, who apparently believe that others shape their fave's career in the most mutilating way by posting malicious texts kind of "I never liked tights over boots"... Yes, then there was something to read, and write, and discuss about! Apparently, there are evergreen online behavior problems that are more acute than questions "oh, but was the skater X truly influenced by fans?" Of course, these problems have many layers, many interesting aspects, and many thoughtful narrations from other posters... And so I am here and I unexpectedly find myself posting about etymology and psychology because, guess what, it resonates

 

[Mathman]

... or, who apparently believe that others shape their fave's career in the most mutilating way by posting malicious texts kind of "I never liked tights over boots"...

A truly vile, even demonic, attack on skaters. What kind of an evil fiend would post such a thing?

 

[Mathman]

About the Trusova situation, I am truly baffled that there is any controversy or even interest in the question of why she had an emotional reaction to getting silver instead of gold at the 2022 Olympics. That is the nature of silver.

As for the competition itself, yes, it is quite true that any lady who successfully lands 5 quads I can be pretty sure of winning -- as Trusova did in the LP.

So why didn't she win overall? Because in the SP she flubbed the triple axel attempt. This cost her 4 points (negative GOE plus fall deduction). She lost the overall gold medal to Shcherbakova by 4 points. Anna skated more consistently through both programs. hit a couple of difficult quads herself, and gained ground in non-jump areas.

Anna ended up happy, Alexandra disappointed. That's competition. Nothing to see here, folks.