Is it time to get rid of the kiss and cry?

[Remilia]

I think the suggestion to take it away is rather silly. What be done however, as far as juniors are concerned, is to simply not focus the camera on them when they're upset. No one (at least, no normal person) wants to see a distraught 13-year-old.
But, well, pretty much all sports and tv broadcasts profit off of the drama and emotions of the athletes, both the good and the bad. I've recently gotten into tennis, and while, as a non-judged sport there is no knc equivalent, you bet they have cameras in the players' faces when they're on the bench and are ready to capture and broadcast any negative emotions/actions they show. Of course, tennis players also tend to be way more dramatic and prone to diva behavior than figure skaters, but that's a different topic...

 

[viennaskater]

The Kiss n' Cry is a must.

Two of my favourite memories involved Dimitri Aliev. When he did not do well in the Grand Prix Final 2019, he was sitting with his head bowed, and his coach was consoling him by patting his back. Then at the 2020 Europeans, after his winning performance, he was sitting smiling with tears in his eyes.

Loved it.

 

[moonvine]

The term "Kiss and Cry" was coined by Finnish figure skating official Jane Erkko around 1983 at the World Figure Skating Championships in Helsinki, when she identified the waiting area for skaters to receive scores as the "kiss and cry corner" to a television technician mapping the arena. A technician wrote "KISS AND CRY" on the map, the term was adopted, and it has since become the universally recognized name for the area. The name stuck, became widely used by the early 1990s, and is now an official part of the International Skating Union (ISU) Regulations

I don't think the Finnish skating official was trying to torment kids. Note to self: Always fact check Mathman

This Is so interesting. I had no idea. I have seen older foot age where they just shoved microohones in their faces the second they stepped off the ice.

 

[moonvine]

Thats not fully explanatory though, because why do abusive coaches get the FED money in the first place? Just for being abusive? I dont think parents are looking for judging bonuses... they are looking for athletic results and excellency out of vanity. My grievance is with the parents' and general system's vain exploitation per children being exhibited on social media and such a comparable disposition with production and advertisement. It is intrinsic to the ethos of sport, not some isolated happenings of abusive coaching; thats a symptom, it cannot be the explanation in itself. I think the pageantry comparison is pretty cogent. I dont know how you could fix it. Perhaps junior events should just have recorded performances, no live stream, no interviews, etc... But the "senior" category isn't exactly composed of iron-minded adults either. I guess it is just the general issue of celebritydom and some sort of living iconography so to speak.

"Training until their bodies cant work" is standard per nations which consider sports as a mass propaganda opportunity. Again not an isolated phenomena. It is ingrained especially in ex-soviet countries and China for example. I mean you have federally established programs to overtrain kids en masse and it is just a statistical fact that some of the genetically fortunate will persevere and become unbeatable. It is a pretty utilitarian attitude to your population.

Í mean…they are trying to promote interest in Junior Figure Skating by providing free streams to the world. And you want them to stop because a few skaters might not like the K&C?

My sport was equestrian and you line up and they call out the winners who get their ribbons, take a Víctory lap and everyone else exits. I knew by the time I was 13 that I was good enough to win sometimes bit not every time and that i was very Fortunate to be able to compete in that sport.

I love most K&C moments.

If it makes you feel any better there was a K&C set up for intermediate women at Texas Trophy and some used it, others did not. It was 100% optional.

 

[moonvine]

Well, that goes to show how much I know. I didn't even know this was a thing in gymnastics.

It’s a new thing they’re trying that they’ve borrowed. Sometimes there’s a “leaders chair” also. That was what i was seeing at World Cups, which have become harder to watch with the demise of the Olympic Channel. You won’t see it in NCAA gymnastics where the emphasis is on teams.

 

[moonvine]

Stephen Nedoroscik COMES THROUGH on pommel horse in U.S. bronze medal effort | Paris Olympics

Team USA only needed a solid performance from Stephen Nedoroscik on pommel horse to make the men's gymnastics team podium. He went ahead and knocked it out o...

www.youtube.com

No eyes on Stephen as he gets his scores. Just the entire world. Go Stephen!
On a side note, if anyone has a really good ear, you may recognize the voice of Terry Gannon who also works with Tara and Johnny Weir.

Go Stephen indeed.

 

[Mathman]

This Is so interesting. I had no idea. I have seen older foot age where they just shoved microohones in their faces the second they stepped off the ice.

I remember at the 2002 Olympics, Michelle Kwan was in a tense situation when she came off the ice. She had made two mistakes and was behind Sarah Hughe in the LP, while Sasha Cohen had taken herself our out it by a fall of her own. Did Michelle still have a chance? A razor thin Hail Mary. If Irina Slutskaya, last to skate, had performed even worse than Kwan, Kwan still could have won the Gold Medal.

Reporters tried to bet a comment from Michelle, but she said briefly that she would make a statement at th end of the event -- and shiut the dor in the re[porters' faces.

(Slutskaya did not skate her best but didn't fall, and finished second in the LP, elevating Sarah to first overall and flip-flopping Michelle to third, even though Michelle was leading Sarah overall until Irina skateded, inserting herself between Sarah and Michelle.

This caused some discussion about "violation of the principle of irrelevant outcomes" that is possible --even common -- under ordinal judging (it cannot happen with IJS) but IMHO that complaint is the fault of statisticians who study the topic of what is desirable and what is undesirable in "social choice theory" -- how to conduct a fair election.)

 

[noskates]

I'm not even sure why this is a valid question. K&C is just a part of figure skating and all the skaters know they're being taped, watched, whatever. It just kind of comes with being a competitive skater. Yes you can go from utter sadness to utter joy but it's just part of the sport.

 

[NanaPat]

I'm not even sure why this is a valid question. K&C is just a part of figure skating and all the skaters know they're being taped, watched, whatever. It just kind of comes with being a competitive skater. Yes you can go from utter sadness to utter joy but it's just part of the sport.

I don't agree with the "we've always done it this way" argument. At one time, daily public weigh-ins of female figure skaters were common. By your reasoning, it's not valid to discuss whether those are/were counterproductive.

In the wider social arena, at one time married women were not allowed to hold jobs or own property. Blacks were not allowed to shop at certain stores. Hell, women and blacks were not allowed to vote.

Questioning is how society progresses.

I think that the streaming on JGP events, which is fairly recent, is a good reason to question whether the kiss and cry is appropriate for all skaters. And once you question it for the Juniors (whose exposure to it is fairly recent), questioning if it is appropriate in all circumstances, or if it should be optional, follows naturally.