Is it Kimmie's responsibility? Or in general, coach, skater, or both?

[Mafke]

Another thing, can the skaters not count their own revolutions in a spin? Mafke, you seem to indicate that is likely Kimmie isn't doing this.

I don't know for sure, but my intuition would be that skaters are trained to count revolutions in a spin but that it's easy to forget or get mixed up. Skaters don't spot with their heads the way some dancers do so I guess it can be difficult to remember exactly where the spin began so that the first revolution gets counted at 340 degrees the next at 340 of the first etc. This would just be exacerbated if the skater is speed counting in their head.

Using the music as a cue doesn't necessarily work since skaters don't stroke in time to the music and lots of factors will influence precise timing.

Back to Kimmie. For me, she has no discernable style and my feeling is when the judges watch her, they are not moved by anything she does. The CoP does not cover style but it leaks out in various GoEs and Levels.

Yeah, having the right style for the time is a big part of scoring success. I think Meissner's style is unfinished, she first came to prominence at the tail end of the Kwan era and she hasn't developed that or any other strong ice personality. That's one reason the judges don't give her any benefit of a doubt.

Even more than fixing some technical issues she needs to try to find a viable, distinct ice personality.

 

[Jaana]

I read somewhere that Arakawa was taught to count the revolutions like "one icecream, two icecreams, three icecreams".

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Excellent post. I agree with every word. But I also hope she can get some trustworthy analysis of her problems somewhere. If they are fixable, great. But if her body has changed too much or for some other reason the problems are insoluble, I hate watching her struggle and suffer. Better to remember the WGM and move on. She's only 19, after all!

I don't see her as doomed as Toni does because she can't put a bit of life into her programs. It's a bit late to change programs now but if she hangs in there for another year, maybe she can.

As to two clean programs: Doesn't everyone have to do that? IMO, Joubert did the best SP I have ever seen from a male skater, yet he finished with arguabley the most boring LP I have ever seen He did 2 clean routines though, and WON!

No one likes to watch any skater struggle for their dreams. Some actually come back the following season and with big improvements and gusto. I don't think we can assume Kimmie is doomed and shoulld move on. As with all skaters there comes a time when hanging up the skates, comes around and only they can decide itl Isn't Sebestyen the oldes skater and still going?

 

[mskater93]

I don't know for sure, but my intuition would be that skaters are trained to count revolutions in a spin but that it's easy to forget or get mixed up. Skaters don't spot with their heads the way some dancers do so I guess it can be difficult to remember exactly where the spin began so that the first revolution gets counted at 340 degrees the next at 340 of the first etc. This would just be exacerbated if the skater is speed counting in their head.

Using the music as a cue doesn't necessarily work since skaters don't stroke in time to the music and lots of factors will influence precise timing.

Yes, we are taught to count rotations but things like COE slow down your normal timing and make you *think* you've done the requisite number in position but sometimes you haven't. What my coach has been working on with me (and her other skaters judged under IJS and who are approaching those levels) is to *think* I am getting 4 revs in the feature position, because then usually it's 3 and something which gets the credit. It appeared to me on Meissner's spins, that she just shorted everything - was basically right around 2 revs (minimum). My coach is also a TS and if it's close (right around 2), she stresses (in every lesson that we cover spins, spirals, and steps) the TP will call a review of the spin and you'd better pray that the camera angle was just right to get credit or else they will just "cross off" the features.

 

[sorcerer]

...Isn't Sebestyen the oldes skater and still going?

No, Suguri is the oldest, I suppose.
Julia turned 27 last May while Fumie will turn 28 at the end of this year 2008.
......
Mskater93, I think Kimmie might need a coach like yours.

 

[Bennett]

i was thinking of fumie and kimmie, the two currently eligible skaters who had competed for the gold at 2006 worlds.

i was thinking of how fumie lost the world title to the new comer kimmie three seasons ago. if kimmie had not peaked at the 2006 worlds yet, fumie might have won and have retired. but she only got the silver and it was completely overshadowed by shizuka's olympic gold. then she went down further and further and had had bad two seasons. so many ppl thought that she was done, too old, and had reached the time to retire. yet, she suddenly revived this season and is now performing better than kimmie. even though i think it too early to say that fumie has recovered her consistency and improved, she at least had good showings at two gp series.

in contrast, kimmie, who seemed to have a bright future as a talented youngstar, had become less and less consistent after the 2006 worlds. she has been going through a gradual downhill during the last two seasons. now she is still struggling. i am afraid she has never been able to live up to the expectations after winning the world champ yet. it has been long since ppl started to discuss that she was done and should move on. but given that kimmie is so young, i feel that she also may have a turning point as fumie seems to be having right now. who knows?

well, these things interest me. since we watch ups and downs of skaters for years, it becomes like reading mini biographies.

i think it too early to blame anyone on her team because the season is not over yet. her skate and programs are still work in progress.

 

[Tonichelle]

I don't see her as doomed as Toni does because she can't put a bit of life into her programs. It's a bit late to change programs now but if she hangs in there for another year, maybe she can.

Getting really tired of having words put "in my mouth" and having my thoughts stated for me. I never said she was doomed, I just said she's blending in. She's not a WOW skater. She never was. She didn't NEED to be when she started, now she does. Can she change - possibly - though you yourself said that it's a little late in the season to change programs...

She's got confidence issues (understandably at this point)... it took Johnny Weir over two years to get his game back... I don't know that Kimmie HERSELF will wait that long.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
A rose by any other name will smell as sweet.

 

[ManyCairns]

Yes, and that which we call BS will always have its unmistakeable odor, too.

 

[Mathman]

Well, they were going to say something nice about YOU but no one could think of anything...

:thumbsup:

 

[mskater93]

Mskater93, I think Kimmie might need a coach like yours.

I don't know if my coach would want the hassle of that level of skater. She's quite happy with her stable of adult competitors and low to mid level kids and all MIF levels. She is just intent on making sure we are all the best skaters we can be at whatever level we're at and getting the most out of our scores with what we are able to do well and that we WILL get credit for them.

 

[AwesomeIce]

Do you actually like any skaters? Just asking because you seem to have nothing but harsh words for every skater!

Ant

I love a lot of different skaters, just not Mirai and Caroline, and Yu-Na personally I like, but her fans make me want to never hear her name ever again. Current skaters that I really enjoy are Carolina Kostner, Sarah Meier, Yukari Nakano, Kimmie Meissner, just to name a few.

 

[Ladskater]

It's Kimmie's (or any skater's) responsibility to practice, practice, practice. Her coach gets well paid to teach her as does her choreographer. However, they are not out there skating for her. Sometimes the pressure gets to a skater and they are not performing at their best. Sometimes they just "have a bad day at the office" and just have to put it behind them in preparation for their next competition. I have seen many skaters over the years do this.

 

[Bill508]

Kimie ia much ado about nothing.

If Kimmie wasn't from the USA, we wouldn't even be talking about her because she isn't even competition for the Japanese or YuNa. Kimmie's claim to fame is winning a post-olympic Worlds where the best skaters were no shows. Frankly I thought Fumie won that one on artistic presentation alone. Kimmie is much ado about nothing and Emily Hughes is even worse. Sad but its the truth.

 

[gold12345]

If Kimmie wasn't from the USA, we wouldn't even be talking about her because she isn't even competition for the Japanese or YuNa. Kimmie's claim to fame is winning a post-olympic Worlds where the best skaters were no shows. Frankly I thought Fumie won that one on artistic presentation alone. Kimmie is much ado about nothing and Emily Hughes is even worse. Sad but its the truth.

Not to drag the thread off topic, but I will reply to this... Kimmie won that Worlds over the Olympic silver medalist and Fumie, who was 4th at those Olympics. Everyone notable was there except for Shizuka and Irina. Give Kimmie some credit... She skated a clean short and a clean 7 triple long program. I thought she was the clear winner, since Fumie had mistakes. You may not like her, but she has accomplished enough internationally to justify discussing her here.

 

[McWicked]

Sasha was there too, the olympic silver medalist.

 

[bekalc]

Not to drag the thread off topic, but I will reply to this... Kimmie won that Worlds over the Olympic silver medalist and Fumie, who was 4th at those Olympics. Everyone notable was there except for Shizuka and Irina. Give Kimmie some credit... She skated a clean short and a clean 7 triple long program. I thought she was the clear winner, since Fumie had mistakes. You may not like her, but she has accomplished enough internationally to justify discussing her here.

Well Mao Asada and Yu-na Kim weren't there. And the thing is Meissner and those girls competed as Juniors, and Meissner never beat them. It's pretty bad when the World Junior Champion and Junior Silver medalist are undefeated against the World Champion. So with Irina, Arakawa, Mao, and Yu-na not there, Meissner won, and Sasha was clearly a shadow of her former self too.

 

[Mathman]

But then again, so what? Kimmie went to Worlds and faced all comers. Can't ask for anything more than that.

Look at it this way. Kimmie has the same number of world championships as Shizuka Arakawa and Mao Asada, and one more than Sasha Cohen and Yuna Kim. :yes:

 

[Tonichelle]

Look at it this way. Kimmie has the same number of world championships as Shizuka Arakawa and Mao Asada, and one more than Sasha Cohen and Yuna Kim. :yes:

 

[AwesomeIce]

But then again, so what? Kimmie went to Worlds and faced all comers. Can't ask for anything more than that.

Look at it this way. Kimmie has the same number of world championships as Shizuka Arakawa and Mao Asada, and one more than Sasha Cohen and Yuna Kim. :yes:

That is so true. In a post-Olympic Worlds she could have shown up tired and skated poorly, but she didn't. She showed up ready to compete, and she gave it everything she had. With Shizuka and Irina out, Sasha was all but guaranteed a gold medal, but Kimmie didn't let that faze her. Kimmie deserves a lot more credit that she's given.