Is it Kimmie's responsibility? Or in general, coach, skater, or both?

[kyla2]

Kwan Not So Much Technical Joe?????

Kwan had plenty of technical ability at her peak. You don't deliver flawless programs unless your technique is spot on. She delievered MANY perfectly clean programs filled with jumps and content. Her jumps were straight up and down with perfect landings. Her spins were fine if not great and her spiral was beautiful. Her footwork was fantastic. She was certainly fast enough on the ice and wasn't considered slow and she had deep edges. Yes, her lutz edge wasn't perfect but it improved.

Frankly it's skaters now who have tecnique problems with the exception of Asada and Yu Na Kim. However, they cannot draw the audience in like Kwan could. I doubt I will see that again in my lifetime. Kwan combined technique, artistry and charisma/connecting to the audience in a unique and special way.

 

[gold12345]

Well Mao Asada and Yu-na Kim weren't there. And the thing is Meissner and those girls competed as Juniors, and Meissner never beat them. It's pretty bad when the World Junior Champion and Junior Silver medalist are undefeated against the World Champion. So with Irina, Arakawa, Mao, and Yu-na not there, Meissner won, and Sasha was clearly a shadow of her former self too.

All of that was out of Kimmie's control. Do you consider the 2006 Olympics meaningless because the Juniors weren't there? No, it was a legit competition. All Kimmie could do was show up at those Worlds and skate her absolute best, which she did. She posted a very high long program score, one that everyone would have had trouble beating that day, no matter who they were. And to be clear, while Kimmie never defeated Yu-Na or Mao as a Junior, I believe she only competed against Yu-Na and Mao a couple of times, and came within 5 pts of beating each of them one time. That's not too bad. There was no guarantee that either of them would have been able to defeat Kimmie at '06 Worlds.

I'm not understanding why some feel the need to try to discredit Kimmie's win. If she had skated poorly at Worlds and backed her way into the title, okay fine, bash away. But she really did skate well that week and deserves some credit.

 

[ManyCairns]

Oh, I just loathe the line of thinking that a certain victory was not meaningful or less meaningful because Competitor A, B, or C wasn't there. Doesn't matter at all -- a World title is still a World title. Kimmie beat all the competitors who were there, who were eligible under the rules (and no one's fault if certain competitors weren't eligible), and she certainly beat Cohen who was a big favorite to win.

Part of winning a competition is getting to and participating in the competition. If someone isn't there due to ineligibility or injury or it-doesn't-matter-why! then that doesn't take anything away from the ultimate winner.

 

[antmanb]

Well Mao Asada and Yu-na Kim weren't there. And the thing is Meissner and those girls competed as Juniors, and Meissner never beat them. It's pretty bad when the World Junior Champion and Junior Silver medalist are undefeated against the World Champion. So with Irina, Arakawa, Mao, and Yu-na not there, Meissner won, and Sasha was clearly a shadow of her former self too.

Well both Mao and Yuna had the chance to win their first world championships too but both failed to do it, they were both beaten by Miki (who Kimmie well and truly trounced at the Olympics as she onyl came in 15th and wasn't good enough to go to the worlds that Kimmie won).

What does this show? Nothing except that coulda, woulda, shoulda's are completely pointless.

Ant

 

[bekalc]

Well both Mao and Yuna had the chance to win their first world championships too but both failed to do it, they were both beaten by Miki (who Kimmie well and truly trounced at the Olympics as she onyl came in 15th and wasn't good enough to go to the worlds that Kimmie won).

What does this show? Nothing except that coulda, woulda, shoulda's are completely pointless.

Ant

Kim was injured the last two years but was healthy at Junior Worlds that year...

 

[Mathman]

^ Yuna Kim is a wonderful skater. What does that have to do with Kimmie Meissner winning 2006 Worlds?

True, if Kim had been a year older and healthy, and/or if Meissner had been a year younger and/or not feeling well, and/or if Sasha were Michelle (only without the sore hip), then maybe Fumnie would have won instead...

 

[antmanb]

Kim was injured the last two years but was healthy at Junior Worlds that year...

Coulda, woulda, shoulda....pointless.

Ant

 

[ae9177]

Kimmie is a hard worker and a fighter, and she's only 19. I can name a long list of ladies who can still peak in their 20's. If they can do it, why Kimmie can't. Bottom line is, she already won a world champion, nobody can take it away from her.

 

[R.D.]

Trouble is though, Meissner has ALREADY peaked- at 2006 Worlds. I can only think of two skaters in recent history that have "peaked" multiple times- Kwan and Slutskaya. They were both one of a kind. No offense to Meissner but I would not put her in that category (or any of the current crop for that matter).

I don't think she will ever have a skate like she did at '06 Worlds again. Even around that time, she was making mistakes on jumps. I don't remember her SP being that great- it took numerous mistakes from both Cohen and Suguri ON TOP OF skating lights out to give her the win. I hate to say this, but looking back, I think KM's consistency was vastly overrated by fans. What she DID do very well was once she made a mistake, you rarely saw her make another one in that routine. This changed last season, obviously.

 

[gold12345]

Trouble is though, Meissner has ALREADY peaked- at 2006 Worlds. I can only think of two skaters in recent history that have "peaked" multiple times- Kwan and Slutskaya. They were both one of a kind. No offense to Meissner but I would not put her in that category (or any of the current crop for that matter).

I don't think she will ever have a skate like she did at '06 Worlds again. Even around that time, she was making mistakes on jumps. I don't remember her SP being that great- it took numerous mistakes from both Cohen and Suguri ON TOP OF skating lights out to give her the win. I hate to say this, but looking back, I think KM's consistency was vastly overrated by fans. What she DID do very well was once she made a mistake, you rarely saw her make another one in that routine. This changed last season, obviously.

I'm bored, so I'll reply, even though I'm pretty late in joining the discussion...

Meissner's SP at those Worlds was okay... She skated cleanly... She did a 3-2 instead of the planned 3-3. I'm pretty sure she also skated a clean Qualifying Round with one 3-3. I agree she needed mistakes from Cohen to win... The judges were ready to hand the title to Cohen as long as she stayed on her feet. She didn't, and Meissner skated her best that week.

I don't think Kimmie's consistency was overrated. She had done 6 or 7 triples cleanly several times in competition (aside from any UR that weren't analyzed nearly as harshly as they are now for all the skaters) . I think that is more than most ladies skaters who have skated under this new scoring system can say. Looking in comparison, I don't know if I've ever seen Cohen land 6 or 7 triples cleanly in a program. Even when Kimmie would make mistakes, she seemed to rarely fall. I think that's mostly why I considered her pretty consistent... Her behind was rarely on the ice.

That all changed when she went through the growth spurt that I still don't think she has adjusted completely to. I agree that she'll probably never skate as well as 2006 ever again... I can't see her, or almost anyone, attempting two 3-3 in a program anymore with the stricter UR calls. But I do think she can skate better than she's currently doing.

 

[silverfox]

^ Yuna Kim is a wonderful skater. What does that have to do with Kimmie Meissner winning 2006 Worlds?

True, if Kim had been a year older and healthy, and/or if Meissner had been a year younger and/or not feeling well, and/or if Sasha were Michelle (only without the sore hip), then maybe Fumnie would have won instead...

I wish I were witty enough to add to this hilarious scenario.

 

[lisadotdash]

I don't think it is a question of finding someone to "blame." I am sure that everyone is working together, doing the best they can.

Figure skating is a fickle mistress. Today you are world champion, tomorrow -- you're not.

When you come in and speak in generalities like this, it just means you actually have nothing to say at all.

I do think she was ill-advised to start her Kool Kids foundation so quickly. It's just like a young lady to want to help the less fortunate but it took her concentration and competitive edge away.

 

[Lissy]

Since this is a Kimmie thread, I thought I should share this cute picture of Kimmie. It's from the Cool Kids Campaign december e-newsletter. My bff knows i'm a fan of Kimmie and she sent the picture to me

http://i35.tinypic.com/10ht6yq.gif

 

[R.D.]

Nice pic, thanks for posting.

It's small though...here's to someone who can find a bigger version :yes:

 

[iluvtodd]

Oh, that's cute. arty: Thanks!

 

[Mathman]

When you come in and speak in generalities like this, it just means you actually have nothing to say at all.

The message is between the lines. :yes: