always has been as we know.. that is why so many skaters go there.... automatic bump
2025-26 Grand Prix Final Free Dance
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
oh yes it does.....
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- Oct 26, 2016
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2018
Me too. I just can't with ice dance. I couldn't even watch the last two programs because I'm so upset. There is an argument to be had by putting the French (when they don't fall) AND Chock and Bates (slightly) ahead of Piper and Paul BUT never Lila and Lewis. I can't stand it. I really can't.
I think the status of favorites is going to be a heavy burden for Chock and Bates, especially given their recent Olympic experiences. A detailed analysis of the protocol clearly shows that there was room for the French team and that the judges were ready to put them in first place. The technical panel is also more favorable and will be the same at the Olympics. The French pair will arrive at the Games with no pressure (Guillaume is already a double medalist). I still believe their victory is very possible.
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- Jan 19, 2018
That's a fair point BUT Lila's posture is worse and is her skating skills so there is ZERO argument for putting L&L ahead overall. Zero.
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- Jan 19, 2018
The French will arrive at the Olympics with a lot of scrutiny as the Press will talk about Laurence's former partner and people will have read Gabriella's new book which will not be favourable towards them. They will need to completely block all of that out and just skate for themselves -- just look what happened to Kamila.
I think partly because Paul's posture is exceptional, it probably makes Piper's look worse than it is.
So, what did Gabriella say that would have a negative impact on FB/C???
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- Oct 15, 2025
How much times in one program Evan lift Madison or Lewis lift Lilah and how much time Paul lift Piper?
Kamilla was just a teenager. The french adults are experienced athletes
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- Dec 7, 2017
The issue is that Lilah and Lewis have a lot of tricks and dynamism which seems to be what the judges have wanted this quad - that’s also what has benefitted Bock. I will say I absolutely love F/G’s FD and thought that was almost the best they’ve performed it all season but I was mesmerized by Piper and Paul and wanted them to get the Bronze. I guess their FD isn’t as innovative (in the judges eyes) as Bock’s or F/G. I think even Mark said they’ve gone back to some old choreography for their FD because they know it’s safe and they can perform those moves well but looking at the GOE’s they weren’t rewarded as highly for them compared to F/G
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- Mar 7, 2015
should it matter that a team is bringing back a favourite routine ? Even if they have done it before, it's still a very special dance. Some of the moves like the ChAJ or the Turtle lift may no longer be new but they invented them... Their precision should be rewarded too.The issue is that Lilah and Lewis have a lot of tricks and dynamism which seems to be what the judges have wanted this quad - that’s also what has benefitted Bock. I will say I absolutely love F/G’s FD and thought that was almost the best they’ve performed it all season but I was mesmerized by Piper and Paul and wanted them to get the Bronze. I guess their FD isn’t as innovative (in the judges eyes) as Bock’s or F/G. I think even Mark said they’ve gone back to some old choreography for their FD because they know it’s safe and they can perform those moves well but looking at the GOE’s they weren’t rewarded as highly for them compared to F/G
I will be blunt, I don't like Lilah and Lewis. I did the first couple season but then, they copied and pasted the same style over and over again and to me, that's even more a sign of lacking innovation.
Piper and Paul do not need to prove that they are innovative. They have done it throughout their entire career.
Also, if the sport really wanted teams to get innovative, they wouldn't have rules about which turns need to be performed when and how and at what speed (for instance in the RD for the speed) ... they would let them explore. Ice dance is by nature, confined in a space where innovation is not really expected that much... so why penalize a team that is brining back an old favourite and giving fans goosebumps?
I am not happy that my two favourite teams both brought back old programs because I like discovering new choreography and finding out the intricate relationship of movement and music in dance... but Piper and Paul (and LaLa) skate their Free Dance so well that they should be rewarded for it.
Composition mark shouldn't be about what is innovative but about the choreography put on the ice that day. Was Piper and Paul's Free dance badly choreographed ? Definitely not. Each element, each movement had its purpose. Everything was polished and refined.
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- Dec 7, 2017
It’s hard to call because the fall did really break the spell of the programme and will have affected overall PCS. It may still have been really close if FB/C hadn’t had the mistake but I think they would have won. Their quality is just so undeniable. The Olympics is going to be crazy because both teams will just get better by February! If both teams perform with commitment and skate cleanly, I would still give the edge to the French. They have to strengthen their RD though (I personally prefer it to Bock’s but judges don’t seem to).
Several teams apparently improved massively their levels in the steps and one-foot turns in the two weeks from Finlandia Trophy. FB/C went from "OFTW1+OFTM2" to "OFTW3+OFTM4" and from "SeStW1+SeStM1" to "SeStW2+SeStM3". Piper and Paul went from "OFTW1+OFTM1" to "OFTW3+OFTM2" and from "DiStW1+DiStM2" to "DiStW3+DiStM3".
Anyway, it's becoming pretty clear it will be a 2 team race for the gold at the Olympics, without the freak fall the Top 2 would have been extremely close. I have given up trying to understand the judges and I am just hoping Charlene and marco come back in form and put in a challenge for a medal at the Olympics. If not them, at least Piper/Paul, Fear/Gibson winning a medal won't be a great development for the sport, showmanship shouldn't trump skating skills.
Anyway, it's becoming pretty clear it will be a 2 team race for the gold at the Olympics, without the freak fall the Top 2 would have been extremely close. I have given up trying to understand the judges and I am just hoping Charlene and marco come back in form and put in a challenge for a medal at the Olympics. If not them, at least Piper/Paul, Fear/Gibson winning a medal won't be a great development for the sport, showmanship shouldn't trump skating skills.
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- Mar 12, 2007
I think their victory (Laurence and Guillaume) is extremely, EXTREMELY likely.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I'm not pleased with the overall placements here, just based on my own enjoyment of the programs.
And I really wish Piper and Paul had kept the original Vincent. Slightly reworked, of course, to accommodate whatever different elements have popped up since then.
And I really wish Piper and Paul had kept the original Vincent. Slightly reworked, of course, to accommodate whatever different elements have popped up since then.
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- Mar 12, 2007
I do think the levels were artificially suppressed by an outlier tech panel 2 weeks ago in Finlandia, and that the levels here are more accurate. Except I need to dive into what happened with Z/K's low scores here.
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- Dec 7, 2017
Oh yeah, I’m not arguing against Piper and Paul at all. If I had my way Piper and Paul would have won everything this quad! What I’m saying is that it looks like ice dance criteria/judging is moving in a certain direction that doesn’t favour Piper and Paul’s style (or the Italians for that matter) which is what now seems to be the “old school” of ice dance style.
This is all reminding me of 2010 when after a few years of pushing ice dance in a new direction, V/M and D/W finally overtook Belbin and Agosto in the Olympic year.
So if Piper and Paul really wanted to win they would have had to design their programmes to really appease the way the judging criteria has been going the last three years (which Piper and Paul would never do because they always stay true to themselves which is what I love about them eventhough it doesn’t always help them with the judges). This is what IAM has done with Chock/Bates and now the French, as two older teams wanting to stay competitive for the Gold.
I’m not saying it’s right, just commenting on how it appears the sport is moving. (Also I also appreciate that F/G do not have the skating skills that V/M or D/W had - the point is that they are being rewarded for their fitness, athleticism, and innovation which seems to be a lot of what the judges want).
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- Feb 19, 2010
I very desperately want to agree with you... and I certainly believe Vincent was a superior program due to the interweaving skating compared to the britons.. but the fact that they consistently don't quite have what it takes to beat the other teams.... does that potentially say something more about them than the judging? I'm just trying to be objective here because there are times when I think they absolutely should have won, but what do I know?
