this icenetwork monopoly | Page 5 | Golden Skate

this icenetwork monopoly

IN is flexing its legal muscle right know and it is using scare tactics and the bottom line is money. IN will be challenged but not by us fans upset about videos being yanked from youtube and dailymotion, but by some other broadcaster who wants a piece of the pie it is the American way.
 
First, thanks to Antman for his careful explanations of the legal situation. I have a much firmer grasp of the issues now, I think.

Nevertheless, I agree with Gold12345. Make love, not war.

Figure skating in the United States is sliding off the sports and entertainment map. Here comes Icenetwork, riding to the rescue. If we didn't have Icenetwork, basically we wouldn't have squat. I, for one, am grateful. To Icenetwork I say, live long and prosper. :rock:

On the other hand, I don't see how it would hurt Icenetwork to work with the fans that support the enterprise rather than against them. As Gold12345 points out, you can (with no effort at all) make You Tube your friend instead of your enemy.

Joesitz remarks sagely at the top of this page that watching old reruns and snippets on You Tube will never cut into Incenetwork's core business of providing live coverage of competitions. Why get your tails in a kink over what essentially amounts to free publicity for your product?
 
the only reason the 'reruns' of seasons 2006 and lower are being taken down is because those same people posting those posted vids from 2007-2008... I don't see how it's so hard to understand...

there are quite a few youtube users out there who have that archival footage that people are whining is gone forever that have kept within the "rules"...
 
IN is ONLY for US viewers BUT how many international subscriptions did IN take without telling people it is for US residents only...hahaha. I knwo people who had to call and call and vcall in order to get a refund because they were not informed, even when they entered their CANADIAN postal code that this service was not from them.

So IMO banning videos from people posting from other countries should not continue. If you want to ban those from the US and get them removed..fine...but be warned...don't bite the hands that feed you. Didn't you read/learn from the whole iskater issue? If you dont know what that one was just look it up....
 
Tonichelle said:
the only reason the 'reruns' of seasons 2006 and lower are being taken down is because those same people posting those posted vids from 2007-2008... I don't see how it's so hard to understand...
Click to expand...
By "reruns" I meant videos put up after the competition is over. Who wants to see that? You already know who won.

If you put up a video of the Super Bowl a day after the game was over, would that cut into the viewership of the real game?
 
^ That's true. In ice skating people do like to see the performances irrespective of the competive placements.
 
gold12345 said:
Instead of wasting time hunting down figure skating fans' videos, why not spend time trying to improve your services and trying to promote the sport of figure skating so that more people are interested and would want to purchase a subscription to IN? You aren't going to get people interested by eliminating all signs of it on YouTube.
Click to expand...
I wrote earlier in this thread that IN's approach seems incredibly short-sighted to me. It is, as Ant explained, very legal; it just doesn't strike me as very smart. How will IN attract new users if the sport becomes so invisible that nobody can really see it and get interested? I think as fans we all want to see figure skating be successful and draw large audiences, even if we don't agree about how to go about achieveing this.

Having videos available online seems to me a good way to generate interest, and attract more fans who will then pay for the premium service offered. This can be done on Youtube or through other channels, and in the long term I think it's a much better strategy for IN, USFSA and the ISU.

For many fans outside the US, there is no way to watch much figure skating except through content sharing sites. The ISU should try and find a creative way to offer something to those fans so that the market for figure skating grows. You cannot depend on a Yu-Na Kim in every country to create a fanbase.

I'm worried that figure skating will eventually become so much of a niche sport that it would be financially insupportable and other than maybe Europeans, Worlds and Olys all we'll have is shows. If you think about it, many Olympic sports are in exactly that situation, only without exhibitions. As a result, many kids may start out in those sports but then leave for greener pastures as they grow older, and some of the best talent is lost.

I don't think fuzzy Youtube videos are the answer to all these problems, by any means; but the effect of removing them - without offering a real legal alternative in many places - is that figure skating becomes less visible and less accessible.

There must be some way to make figure skating more accessible to the public. Record companies, TV networks, sports leagues - they all found ways to make content available online to generate interest, even if this is not yet optimal. This needs to be done with figure skating, too.
 
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Mathman said:
^ That's true. In ice skating people do like to see the performances irrespective of the competive placements.
Click to expand...

so true... I can watch some skaters vids over and over and over again and never tire of it.
 
I'm not looking to restart the legal debates, but here's something interesting that has to do with this thread: contrary to what some of us assumed, Youtube apparently can block certain IPs from viewing specific content. I know this because earlier today I tried to watch something (it had nothing to do with figure skating) and got a message that "This video is not available in your country".

So now I'm really confused as to why Youtube is removing videos and terminating accounts rather than selectively blocking IPs. Unless Eurosport has also been on their case - and considering the number of Eurosport videos available, I can't imagine that's the reason.
 
http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=83766

Apparently a copyright holder can give files to youtube. Youtube then has a program that checks that content against user uploads. If the program gets a match, youtube applies one of four actions that were specified by the copyright user. The match can be on video, audio or both. As a result, there is, as I can attest, an error rate. For example, D&W's and B&A's programs are the same at 4CC's and Nationals, more or less. Consequently, even though IN has no rights to 4CC's 2008 or 2007, this tool tagged my video of D&W, but not one of V&M at the same event.

Here are the choices. Remember the choice is specified by the copyright owner, not by youtube:

* Block the video entirely
* Block the video to certain countries
* Track the number of views the video gets
* Charge the uploader on behalf of the copyright owner (Charmingly called monetizing)

BTW, you can change your apparent country and language in your profile. I have no idea whether this affects whether or not you can view a video, but it might well, if you really want to view the video in question (in violation of the user's desire, and probably in violation of USFS's copyright issues).

If you have a video falsely blocked, you can use the USFS Contact tool. I did, and they did respond to me about it. But do remember to save the URL of the affected video, and don't delete what's left of the video on your own, because otherwise, when USFS informs youtube of the error, you will be unable to get the video resurrected.

BTW, this explains why Russian & etc programs are blocked-the music of the performers is the largest part of the file. This is even more treacherous for CD files since the same ISU music is used for every performer in every era.

If you would like more details, you should read the link above.

Furthermore, here are some youtubers discussing this policy. Nickleback monetizes their music when a video is shown in Germany!

http://help.youtube.com/group/youtu...ad/5acb15dce92de1da/2a3fe12ac4611aa9?hl=en_US

This part is particularly concerning:

xTRUJILLOx View profile
More options Oct 12, 12:55 am

From: xTRUJILLOx
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 21:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Oct 12 2008 12:55 am
Subject: Re: This video is not available in your country.
Reply | Forward | Print | Individual message | Report this message | Find messages by this author
this suck
youtube and Google promotes the censure.
I understand with musical videos an TV shows, copyright you know, but
with political or social themes is censure.


I can't see a video about blackwaters (USA mercenaries)
Click to expand...

Whether this was true about the Blackwater documentary mentioned, (copyright vs. political censure) I don't know, but the basic article says that broadcast into China is definitely limited by youtube on a political basis. Why not in the US?
 
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Very interesting. I accidently switched to Korean and then they keep showing kr.youtube.com even though I want to have it back to www.youtube.com. But it would be cool if they show more videos on kr.youtube.com (do they??? If anyone tried it out, please confirm what dori was saying).
 
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Doris, thanks for the info, but I'm no less confused than I was before :scratch:. I understand IN can block videos because they have US broadcast rights. I'm not a fan of this, but I understand and accept it (like I have a choice ;)) and I'm not going to argue they are not within their rights.

However, IN does not have copyright on Eurosport content, or CBC content, or content shot by spectators at an event. Therefore, I don't understand why those videos are being removed completely rather than being blocked for IPs from the US. It's been my impression that Eurosport doesn't much care if their coverage shows up on Youtube; they certainly make no apparent effort to have it removed.

BTW, the content I was trying to access was a music video by an American artist. I guess it hasn't been released yet in other countries. So no political cernsorship that I'm aware of. :cool:
 
Buttercup said:
Doris, thanks for the info, but I'm no less confused than I was before :scratch:. I understand IN can block videos because they have US broadcast rights. I'm not a fan of this, but I understand and accept it (like I have a choice ;)) and I'm not going to argue they are not within their rights.
Click to expand...


I agree with what you have said.My issue with this whole situation is that they are restricting viewing of competitions,by US viewers,to only the few who can afford to pay to view the competitions,it is totally restricting the viewing rights to the everyday fan.If children don't ever see figure skating...they won't be inspired to skate.And if only the privileged can view skating,where are the basic rights of normal everyday citizens of this country?It's censorship and I think it's morally wrong.Everybody should have the right to watch skating.
On another side of it,it's bad business for IN and USFS.They will not gain popularity or make a ton of money by doing this. They would do better to have a USFS channel on youtube,which would make people more interested in the organization and in trying out skating and in making a deal with one of the networks to show more than the ladies skating on US television,and more than US Nationals,there are those of us who are interested in international skating.Their advertising is poorly done IMO.During the 2005 GC they had a session about advertising and they mentioned IN then.I thought it was a bad idea then,and I still do(I was a delegate). I suggested that they advertise in venues that would appeal to the younger generations(Teen magazines etc....)so that the younger kids would become interested in skating and give it a try.I skated recreationally as an adult,because when I was a kid I watched skating on TV,and when I grew up and had ice near where I lived...I tried it and liked it and joined the USFS and all that(not a member any longer btw).But if there is no skating on TV then it will become an out of sight,out of mind situation.And the people of America,the casual skating fan,will forget ice skating. And then where will we be 5-10-20 yrs from now when there aren't very many young people skating?

Anyway,I understand the whole legal stuff,but I think the whole concept is just wrong and messed up.I am against IN and they will NOT be getting any of my money.:cool:
 
It appears that USFS has asked that the action to be taken is for youtube to block all viewing.

Perhaps they do not know that blocking only in the US is an option? So letters from non US residents to USFS, via the contact button on their website might work. Such letters should politely inform USFS that they have no right to block broadcast outside the US, unless the video has been recorded from IN-I've seen exactly ONE IN video on youtube, ever, so this is an almost never happens case.

They may not be aware that youtube has the ability to block US only. You could inform them of that by posting a link to the google help above.
 
If they can read these threads to find links to YouTube videos for them to delete, they can very well notice from them the existence of US-only filtering. Not making use of it, at this point, is just plain laziness.
 
Yes, but if there is anyone reading these threads, it's probably some volunteer or other who will ignore the entire option.

Writing is good. emailing probably not as good, but still good.

I would suggest that emails be kept respectful and helpful in tone. Tell them about youtube's ability to block by country at their request, and explain that overseas fans are being hurt.

Expect them not to care. These are the people who put ice skating coverage in the hands of people who do on line Major League Baseball. Like ESPN, they probably would prefer to be dealing with Texas Holdem Poker or Tournament Bass Fishing than Figure Skating.

But that's why it's especially important to be polite and helpful. I'm sure they think all skating fans are nuts before we even begin :)
 
exactly. why would they want to listen to a bunch of raving lunatics... who are seeing some big brother conspiracy when basically all it's boiling down to is that whole idea of 'it's just good business' (I love the pirates of the caribbean movies lol).

Constructive letters will get a lot farther than the tone all of these threads have.
 
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