Is it possible to want "it" TOO much?

[R.D.]

You know, the MK article I read earlier got me thinking. She basically dominated on every circuit except for the Olympics. And she's not the only one- they're many other recent examples of favorites faltering and unknowns or underdogs seizing the moment. Now, no doubt that these favorites had the skill and preparation to win. I'm typically not one to do these far-out speculation things, but I can't help but wonder if they slipped up because they just wanted it TOO badly. Can anyone who has had a similar experience, or knows someone who has had this experience, validate this? :think:

The ones who are most vocal about wanting a medal, or a gold medal, seem to be the ones particularly vulnerable to this phenomenon, at least from what I've seen. But even if you choose not to talk about it to the press, I'd assume that it must play with your head somewhat.

 

[kate]

When I have a big competition (which is not nearly a big as the Olympics ) I try not to think about placement or wanting to win at all. If you want it too much, you put a lot of pressure on yourself. A little pressure is a good thing, but there's more than enough at events like the Olympics without adding any more.

 

[heyang]

It's certainly not unheard of for the favorite's to falter.

MK's Olympic experience are a 'slight' example.

In 98, I do think that the extra pressure caused her to hold back on her natural expressiveness to concentrate on technique. LOL - I recall one poster said that it was not perceived this way outside of the US - they thought it was a magnificent skate - US fans compared it to her performances to US Nationals and knew that it could have been done better. If not for Tara's also clean program with 3-3 and her joyful freedom, MK would likely have own gold that night. It was close.

People also continue to argue about MK in SLC. Many don't doubt that Sarah had the skate of the night of the LP, but she had help winning that gold medal. Some felt that the placements from the SP were wrong putting MK ahead of Irina and some felt that MK should have been over Irina in the LP. Either 'flip' in ordinals would have changed the results.

With hindsight, I don't think MK truly collapsed. She was just 'off' by the slightest bit in either subdued performance or bobbles. The actual winners didn't have the expectations and were able to let loose a bit more.

There haven't been many Olympic performances that were magical. Scott Hamilton's was far from his best performance. Kristi had a hand down - she was the clear winner more because no one else was standing up that night.

In other events, Dan Jansen of speed skating totally fell to the pressure during one Oly's. (although I'm trying to remember if his sister was ill during the same Oly's.)

I can only think of 2 battles for the medal that lived up to the hype - Battle of the Brians and 94 pairs.

 

[nubka]

With hindsight, I don't think MK truly collapsed. She was just 'off' by the slightest bit in either subdued performance or bobbles. The actual winners didn't have the expectations and were able to let loose a bit more.

I don't think she collapsed, either. She did fall on a jump in her SLC LP, though. To me, a fall is not a "bobble."

Or were you only referring to her Nagano LP? If so, nevermind...

 

[attyfan]

In an interview after 2000 Worlds, Plushy said that he failed because he thought too much about the gold and not enough about his jumps -- so I think that it is not only possible to want "it" too much, but that it is not uncommon.

 

[Jaana]

With hindsight, I don't think MK truly collapsed. She was just 'off' by the slightest bit in either subdued performance or bobbles. The actual winners didn't have the expectations and were able to let loose a bit more.

I think that Lipinski sure must have had expectations as much as Kwan. They both were one-time World Champions. In Nagano Kwan skated a beautiful short programme which she won deservedly. IF Kwan had been able to skate the freeskate in the way she did in US Natonals, she would have won the Olympics, in my opinion. My impression during the years has been that often the top skaters are able to do only one magical skate during the season.

 

[Particle Man]

Your topic could be read in such a wrong way.

I agree with those who say MK should have won in '98. Tara's skate was just... sloppy. I dunno. In any case, she can't control what phenoms have their big moment at just the right time. The winter olympics is every 4 years. Some skaters don't even hit one window of opportunity, let alone 2 (actually almost 4 in Michelle's case). For Michelle it was the luck of the draw as much as it was any failings on her part. Anyway, I think MK is a prime example of why the OGM is NOT necessary. Would she really be MORE of a legend if she had won OGM? All it would do is fill the empty spot where she and her fans think it should be. Someone like Kimmie M. or Alissa C., who stick with it and keep coming back to do their best for us matter more to me than someone like Sarah H. or Tara L. who win the big prize and fall off the map.

 

[justanotherobserver]

I think Kimmie is an example of someone who wants it too much. Ever since she won her big one, she just seems so pressured...trying too hard.

I compete in another sport, and I can tell you you can get mental blocks about your mental blocks. But I guess I'm straying from the original question, to which my answer is: Yes. IMHO.

 

[gio]

Yes, the Olympics put too much pressure on the champions, who perceive that title as the most important of their career to achieve. In this way they falter, because they put too much pressure on them wanting that title at every cost. The surprising thing (or maybe not that surprising) is that they fail in the elements they almost always completed and that were secure in doing them.

Debi Thomas (gorgeous skater IMO), Midori Ito, Michelle Kwan and Irina Slutskaya are all good examples.

Debi Thomas with 3T mistake, Midori Ito with 3Z and 3A, Michelle Kwan with 3F and 3T in SLC, Irina Slutskaya with 3L and 3F in Torino.

Also the winners of the Olympics who were champions also before and not underdogs skated conservatively and/or with mistakes.

Kristi Yamaguchi with a fall at 3L (not counting the 2S, because that was always her nemesis jump), Katarina Witt doubling the planned 3L, same with Shizuka Arakawa.

The only Olympics winners with clean performances in the last 20 years were underdogs (Oksana, Tara and Sarah), even though they had serious technique faults IMO.

 

[Spun Silver]

My impression during the years has been that often the top skaters are able to do only one magical skate during the season.

That's an interesting empirical observation. Why so rarely?

 

[Particle Man]

gio - Sounds accurate, but none of that is really relevant under CoP. The clean skate no longer matters. If an asian doesn't win the OGM this time (again), people would be incredulous. No one has the scores to beat both Mao and Yu-Na under CoP. They'd both have to not just screw up repeatedly, but come apart at the seams...

 

[Mathman]

^ Well, if you could do it all the time, it wouldn't be magical.

 

[Spun Silver]

True, but in performing arts magic is more common - some performers are almost always magical. I guess in the arts you can shoot for magic and be your magical self, whereas in sports it's all about winning. Rare is the perfect overlap of sport and art in figure skating. Shoot the moon!

 

[R.D.]

Interesting observations/comments, folks.

When I have a big competition (which is not nearly a big as the Olympics ) I try not to think about placement or wanting to win at all. If you want it too much, you put a lot of pressure on yourself. A little pressure is a good thing, but there's more than enough at events like the Olympics without adding any more.

That's a very intriguing perspective. Thanks for sharing that. I figured that one would want a little motivational pressure, ideally, but too much (such as wanting the big prize) could possibly interfere with the motivational side of things and, in an extreme case, cause you to "freak out" for lack of a better term. Note that this doesn't HAVE to lead to tanking the event, but can cause you to make "stupid mistakes" which could cost you what you are pursuing (i.e. OGM).

From what I've seen on the ice and heard in interviews, I think the casualties include but aren't limited to:

(and this is on the ladies' side, I'm sure there are many more cases in the other 3)

Kwan, Slute, Cohen at 2002 SLC

S. Hughes at 2003 Worlds (this one was tough to watch - she basically self-destructed, by her standards)

Cohen at 2004 US Nats

Japanese Ladies at 2005 Worlds

Slute, Ando, Kostner in Torino

Suguri at 2006 Worlds

Meissner at 2008 US Nats

I also wanted to say Slute at 2006 Euros, but she ended up winning that one anyway so I didn't.

and, don't want to jinx, but we could have another casualty at this weekend's US Nats and/or Euros.

 

[nubka]

Anyway, I think MK is a prime example of why the OGM is NOT necessary. Would she really be MORE of a legend if she had won OGM? All it would do is fill the empty spot where she and her fans think it should be.

Mercy me, I'm soooooo sick of hearing that...:sheesh:

Not necessary for what ?

 

[antmanb]

Mercy me, I'm soooooo sick of hearing that...:sheesh:

Not necessary for what ?

Not necessary for determining the greatness of a figure skater i would guess?

Arakawa, Hughes, Lipinski, Baiul.....I don't think they'd make "the best" list. Baiul and Lipinski - we will never know - they were flash in the pan skaters on top for approximately 10 - 16 months with nothing to suggest in professional skating that they were truly great. To my mind - their contemporaries all achieved more to my mind (ignoring Baiul). As contemporaries I think Kwan and Slutskaya both achieved more in the sport than Arakawa, Hughes and Lipinksi.

Even Yamaguchi - competitively wasn't all that for me. I think she gets most of her recognition for her pro career, keeping up her skills and having the most successful and longest (i'm guessing at both!) professional skating career of any lady. Again for me despite the two world championships and Olympic gold, her contemporary Ito achieved more despite less titles.

Witt, for me is more or less the only one where the Olympic gold(s) really do cement her dominance over a long period of time and really and the list of titles does eqaute to her skill and dominance.

But i suppose we have discussed this topic to death!

Ant

 

[Ladskater]

I think this is a good question you pose. However, Kurt Browning put it in to perspective for me - he says the Olympics are a strange experience for every skater (and athelete). The pressure is enormous and the expectations of the fans are high. It's different for each skater how he/she reacts.

The great Toller Crantson who garnered a Bronze medal at the Olympics said that not standing at the top of the podium is like not quite graduating. Someone is saying "you have not reached the top of your class."

I don't think there is any real answer to whether or not skaters want it too much or not enough - it's just luck (some say).

Interesting thoughts.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Witt, for me is more or less the only one where the Olympic gold(s) really do cement her dominance over a long period of time and really and the list of titles does eqaute to her skill and dominance.

She was outskated by Tiffany Chin and Midori Ito at her respective Olympics but, yeah, she was consistent for a good period of time.

 

[Raatkirani]

Not necessary for determining the greatness of a figure skater i would guess?

Arakawa, Hughes, Lipinski, Baiul.....I don't think they'd make "the best" list. Baiul and Lipinski - we will never know - they were flash in the pan skaters on top for approximately 10 - 16 months with nothing to suggest in professional skating that they were truly great. To my mind - their contemporaries all achieved more to my mind (ignoring Baiul). As contemporaries I think Kwan and Slutskaya both achieved more in the sport than Arakawa, Hughes and Lipinksi.

Even Yamaguchi - competitively wasn't all that for me. I think she gets most of her recognition for her pro career, keeping up her skills and having the most successful and longest (i'm guessing at both!) professional skating career of any lady. Again for me despite the two world championships and Olympic gold, her contemporary Ito achieved more despite less titles.

Witt, for me is more or less the only one where the Olympic gold(s) really do cement her dominance over a long period of time and really and the list of titles does eqaute to her skill and dominance.


Ant

Well said! Baiul, Lipinski, and dare I say Hughes, were all OGMs BUT they haven't left a great legacy in the sport. Baiul is more famous for her off ice shenanigans than her artistry. The last I saw her on TV was her prancing around to "Black Horse and Cherry Tree" and I truly felt embarrassed for her. Lipinski and Hughes have disappeared off the face of the earth. Perhaps because they didn't continue in the amateur ranks, but for me, they're somewhat forgettable. Even Kristi Yamaguchi wasn't on the scene for that long--her Olympic performance was flat. It was only after she spent years with SOI did she develop into the artist she is today. For me, that's why I admire Katarina Witt: she stayed on an extra Olympic cycle after her first OGM. We haven't had any OGM stay since then. But that's the key: spending time in your sport and doing meaningful things--whether it's competing or developing artistically in a grueling tour. That's how you stay memorable.

Skaters without gold medals that I admire: Brian Orser, Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya, Chen Lu, Kurt Browning, Elvis Stojko, Brasseur and Eisler, Usova and Zhulin, Bourne and Kraatz, Yuka Sato, Nathalie Krieg, etc--I remember them and love them all, even if they came up short at the Olympics. They're still great.

 

[100yen]

I think this phenomenon exists, to a degree.
It seems however, that if skaters have a bad skate they blame it on the fact that they "wanted it" too badly to skate their best. To me, sometimes it feels like an excuse because a skater did not preform well and they know they had a lot of hype behind them. I notice commentators mention that a lot-especially during the Nationals this year where a lot of the top skaters did not do as well as everyone expected them to.