Ladies Free Skate

[R.D.]

Well, sure, if she only got the SP right, and if the FS went down like it did, she'd be on her way to LA. I'm kind of glad, though (for placement reasons) that it didn't happen. With all due respect to Alyssa and Ashley...a Czisny/Wagner world team and we'd probably run the risk of losing even TWO spots

 

[mycelticblessing]

No. I find it annoying that senior skaters won at junior worlds, but I really don't care what country the top people are from. These things change from season to season.

Yeah, the junior ladies must be really miffed this year. The countries winning at junior worlds are usually US and Russia. I find it odd that they have such strong junior teams, but when they reach the senior level, they're only so-so.

I'm happy for Leonova though. I haven't managed to see her in this competition yet, but I really liked her when I saw her Euros FS.
I was hoping that Ashley would get silver, but I'm glad she medalled. And Caroline's comeback was so impressive!

 

[Fashionista]

I still think both Gozeva and Leonova were given highly inflated PCS scores in the FS, especially in the PE and CH scores.

And I still think that Zhang was overrated in PCS on her previous competitions.

But anyway its not all about PCS, I'd lake to remind you about the second criteria - TES. If the majority of those who write in this thread are so keen on PCS why you all were so happy two days ago when Shibutanis won silver?

 

[feraina]

How ironic, both of Alena's triples replayed during the medals ceremony were visibly under-rotated, but probably both were ratified, maybe even with +GOE...

 

[chuckm]

And I still think that Zhang was overrated in PCS on her previous competitions.

But anyway its not all about PCS, I'd lake to remind you about the second criteria - TES. If the majority of those who write in this thread are so keen on PCS why you all were so happy two days ago when Shibutanis won silver?

Zhang beat Leonova 59.43 to 51.52 on TES because Zhang did 7 triples and Leonova did only 5 (the 3L was UR). Leonova also didn't get high +GOE on any of her elements, while Zhang got +2 and +3 on non-jump elements.

BTW, "being emotional while skating" is not one of the qualities cited in any of the PCS component descriptions. However, flow and sureness of movement are, and Alena's poor edging and heavy jump landings with no flowout showed neither.

The Shibutanis won silver because they skated well in all 3 segments of the competition, and their PCS scores were consistently lower than the other skaters who finished in the top 4. Riazanova / Guerreiro unfortunately had a bad skate in the CD, and that is what kept them at bronze instead of silver.

 

[GiuliaPlum]

the Medal cerimony is on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxw2glur-aw

 

[Fashionista]

Zhang beat Leonova 59.43 to 51.52 on TES because Zhang did 7 triples and Leonova did only 5 (the 3L was UR). Leonova also didn't get high +GOE on any of her elements, while Zhang got +2 and +3 on non-jump elements.

Leonova was the only skater in LP who made 3L with +GOE. It was rittberger which got UR. Plus Zhang got -GOE on her jump combination because of flutz, we all know she has huge problems with this jump.

BTW, "being emotional while skating" is not one of the qualities cited in any of the PCS component descriptions. However, flow and sureness of movement are, and Alena's poor edging and heavy jump landings with no flowout showed neither.

I wouldn't complain about Leonova's heavy jump landings if I were a fan of Caroline. Unfortunately Zhang's jump technique is absolutely dreadful. Leonova's jumps a re much better in all their components.

The Shibutanis won silver because they skated well in all 3 segments of the competition, and their PCS scores were consistently lower than the other skaters who finished in the top 4. Riazanova / Guerreiro unfortunately had a bad skate in the CD, and that is what kept them at bronze instead of silver.

First of all Shibutanis had bad CD so I wouldn't say they skated well in all 3 segments. And they won their silver medal because R-G made several tech mistakes in FD and Shibutanis obviously deserved their silver. They won only due to their good TES that's what I wanted to say. And I don't understand why Leonova couldn't do the same regarding her good tech skate in BOTH programs. Zhang lost by the summery of TWO programs, she was definitely much worse in SP then Leonova (and her SP PCS was a gift from the judges), I hope you would agree here. So I don't see what this discussion is about. If Zhang skated well in SP she would have won the title.

 

[chuckm]

Some people use 3R for a loop and 3L for a lutz. I do

3L = Triple LOOP
3Z = Triple LUTZ

Zhang DID land a 3/3 and 7 triples. Leonova landed only 5 triples and no 3/3.

I would agree that Zhang's ENTRY into her pick jumps is not good and she intends to work on that this summer. But she has much better flow out from her jumps, which is where Leonova is lacking. She lands her jumps heavily and with noticeable effort and the flow out of the jump isn't smooth. I also found that she tended to "ta da" when she landed a jump as if she was amazed she'd landed it.

Shibutani's had a pretty good CD (5th), despite their low PCS scores (9th) and considering that this was their first ISU Championship event; they were 3rd in TES. Riazanova / Guerreiro, heavily experienced skaters and JGPF medalists, finished 7th, 11th in TES--but placed 3rd on PCS. If the Shibutani's 5th place in the CD was "bad", R/G's 7th place was dismal.

 

[Fashionista]

3L = Triple LOOP
3Z = Triple LUTZ

May it would be better to use ISU official signs for jumps, so
3T = triple loop
3Lz = triple lutz
3Lo = triple ritt

Zhang DID land a 3/3 and 7 triples. Leonova landed only 5 triples and no 3/3.

Leonova DID land 6 triples. The only difference was that she had 3-2 instead of 3-3.

I would agree that Zhang's ENTRY into her pick jumps is not good and she intends to work on that this summer. But she has much better flow out from her jumps, which is where Leonova is lacking.

Zhang's flow out is very short, she often just loses her speed and doesn't have any flow out. Her jumps are extremely low and she often doesn't have good jump positions. And pay attention to her push leg, it's just something weird to me.

She lands her jumps heavily and with noticeable effort and the flow out of the jump isn't smooth

Have you seen Leonova anywhere else except these JWorlds? Euros?

I also found that she tended to "ta da" when she landed a jump as if she was amazed she'd landed it.

There's nothing bad about it. Yagudin, Joubert, Lambiel also did it.

 

[Fashionista]

If the Shibutani's 5th place in the CD was "bad", R/G's 7th place was dismal.

I would say more - it was dreadful. And something weird to me cos I haven't seen their CD.
But I didn't tell anything about R/G, I didn't even compare them to Shibutanis, I just said that I couldn't tell they had skated well in all 3 segments. 7th place is dreadful, the 5th place is also very poor result.
One more time: I don't have any doubts that Shibutanis deserved silver medal. You just ignored the most important part of my post for which i recalled the example of Shibatanis victory over Hubbels and R/G. This one:

They won only due to their good TES that's what I wanted to say. And I don't understand why Leonova couldn't do the same regarding her good tech skate in BOTH programs

Please comment it.

 

[chuckm]

If Leonova had a TES even close to Zhang's in the FS, I might agree. But Leonova landed only 5 triples and non-jump elements were nothing special; the total GOE in her FS was only +1.64. Zhang's 3/3 combination got +0.80 GOE and her total GOE was +3.0, despite the flutz deduction.

So I don't understand why Leonova got 6.45 in SS (skating skills) to Zhang's 6.05 in the FS, when Zhang had 7 triples and outstanding non-jump elements to Leonova's 5 triples (with one UR) and average non-jump elements.

Typically, all of the other PCS components cluster around the SS score. Since I don't see how Leonova's SS should be considered superior to Zhang's, that's why I think Leonova was majorly gifted with PCS.

 

[Andalusia]

Leonova DID land 6 triples. The only difference was that she had 3-2 instead of 3-3.

Her jumps are extremely low and she often doesn't have good jump positions.

Wrong. Leonova was credited with landing 5 triples, and well she should be considering her loop was so obviously cheated.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2009/wjc09_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

If you're referring to Caroline's body positions in the air whilst jumping, I'd have to disagree. Her positions are textbook. She also rotates very tightly and quickly - I remember Michelle Kwan commenting on how she admired Tara Lipinski for being able to rotate like that in the air.

 

[Mathman]

There's nothing bad about it. Yagudin, Joubert, Lambiel also did it.

Especially Yagudin.

At the other end of the scale, Maria Butyrskaya always looked dismal after her performances -- even when they were great -- like she was apologizing for not doing better.

But about this contest, I really do not see any controversy. Leonova skated quite well in both the short program and the long, and she earned the scores that she received.

Zhang won the LP with a fine performance, but in the SP she couldn't do anything right. The point differential was just too much to overcome, without major errors by Leonova.

 

[Eurofan]

So now people are mad because Zhang failed to win a competition they didn't want her to go to in the first place? Please.

Did we all watch the same event? Zhang blew her combo in the SP and still came in 10th, held up by her PCS. The other girls who blew their combos - Gozeva, Imai, and Kang - ended up in 15th, 17th, and 23rd. Where they belonged, IMO. I found it far more disturbing that Oksana Gozeva, who struggles to achieve mediocrity on a good day, was catapulted into the top ten after the Free Skate.

 

[chuckm]

I found it far more disturbing that Oksana Gozeva, who struggles to achieve mediocrity on a good day, was catapulted into the top ten after the Free Skate.

Gozeva was 9th, rising 6 placements, after a FS with 2 falls. When her marks were read, I could hardly believe the high PCS scores she received for that lackluster performance---mostly 5s, when all the other ladies in her group (and many in the penultimate group) were in the 4s. She remained in first place for a long, long time.

 

[COP]

Gozeva was 9th, rising 6 placements, after a FS with 2 falls. When her marks were read, I could hardly believe the high PCS scores she received for that lackluster performance---mostly 5s, when all the other ladies in her group (and many in the penultimate group) were in the 4s. She remained in first place for a long, long time.

Well she's a Russian. Nothing is more precious than a Russian name in this business.

 

[Alicja]

Well she's a Russian. Nothing is more precious than a Russian name in this business.

Great! Do you think a Polish name does it as well? If so maybe I should try to enter a skating competition...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So I don't understand why Leonova got 6.45 in SS (skating skills) to Zhang's 6.05 in the FS, when Zhang had 7 triples and outstanding non-jump elements to Leonova's 5 triples (with one UR) and average non-jump elements.

Who in hades really understand what Skating Skills are? And the cop-out will be, maybe she only did 5 triples, but there are other considerations in Skating Skills. Everytime I read that cop-out, I wish the writer would mention what the other considerations were.

What about posture?

 

[chuckm]

Who in hades really understand what Skating Skills are? And the cop-out will be, maybe she only did 5 triples, but there are other considerations in Skating Skills. Everytime I read that cop-out, I wish the writer would mention what the other considerations were.

What about posture?

Here is the ISU Components criteria.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

Skating Skills is Page 1.

Flow and effortless glide and Cleanness and sureness of deep edges are some of the criteria. Leonova does not have deep edges, and her jumps were effortfully landed with little flowout.

I simply do not see the justification for Leonova's PCS being 3 points higher than Caroline's---just enough to give her first place.

 

[Lucky Star]

Alena Leonova FS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt6css0WC_E