Ladies Free Skate

[Mathman]

So, is a 3Lo< "really" a 2 loop, but for some reason they forgot to change the "3" to a "2" in the protocol?

Or is it "really" a defective 3 loop carrying the penalty of reduction of both base value and GOE?

Does this argument have a point? What is at issue are the program component scores, and in particular the Skating Skills component, which seems to set the tone for the PCSs across the board.

That's exactly what I mean. The Skating Skills are never mentioned individually. I remember when the CoP first came out, that people were messaging that's the segment which the judges can play around with. Taken as a whole, it can not be quantified and is therefore an opinion segment of the CoP.

I think the same can be said for all of the program component scores, not just Skating Skills. This is indeed the judges' opportunity to give their opinions about who they thought skated best overall. I don't think they pay much attention to all those guidelines and "bullets."

 

[demarinis5]

Oops the Leonova/Zhang argument is still going on. Be back later.

 

[feraina]

Isn't there some kind of "ignore" feature on this board? I heard it mentioned somewhere.

 

[Mathman]

Isn't there some kind of "ignore" feature on this board? I heard it mentioned somewhere.

Yes indeed! Click on "User CP" (control panel) at the top of any page. Go to menu item (on the left) "Edit Ignore List." Type in the username of the GS member whose posts you do not ever want to see again.

 

[Eurofan]

I hope Francesca Rio does well. I like her, she has fire and personality. She reminds me Ashley in the last year tango. And I think this might be her last event as single, since she's training with Hotarek as Pairs.

Actually, Stefania Berton is training with Hotarek. Here's the announcement:

http://www.artonice.it/?q=it/node/6564

 

[chuckm]

So, is a 3Lo< "really" a 2 loop, but for some reason they forgot to change the "3" to a "2" in the protocol?

Or is it "really" a defective 3 loop carrying the penalty of reduction of both base value and GOE?

No. Look at the protocol. The base value for 3Lo< is 1.5, the value of a double loop. Then a -0.36 GOE is deducted, leaving 1.14.

 

[Mathman]

I understand that the base value of 3Lo< is the same as the base value of 2Lo. But the question wasn't what the base value is. The question was, does the "3" in 3Lo< mean 2 or 3?

You say, 3 means 2.

Fashionista says, no, 3 means 3.

I say, this is a moot nitpicking of semantics.

 

[chuckm]

If an attempted triple jump is underrotated, it is NOT a triple. Its base value is that of a double and then there is a further deduction for the UR.

 

[Lucky Star]

OK, and Caroline won the FS, but you forgot about short program. Alena did 2 triples in her short and what about Zhang?...

 

[Eurofan]

Apparently the horse is still breathing. Oh, well.

 

[Particle Man]

I was busy all weekend, so didn't finish watching the JW ladies until just now. I'd like to get in on some of this Caroline horse-beating action but I'll limit it to 4 words.

"I told you so!"

:sheesh:

 

[skates]

OK, and Caroline won the FS, but you forgot about short program. Alena did 2 triples in her short and what about Zhang?...

0. But Caroline did 7 triples in the free so both Alena and Caroline did 7 in the entire competition.

 

[lcd]

Yes indeed! Click on "User CP" (control panel) at the top of any page. Go to menu item (on the left) "Edit Ignore List." Type in the username of the GS member whose posts you do not ever want to see again.

So many tools I never knew about! Thank you Mathman. You are truly the wizard engineer of this board:agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If an attempted triple jump is underrotated, it is NOT a triple. Its base value is that of a double and then there is a further deduction for the UR.

I think the adjective attempted is moot. I believe, in the LP that a skater is judged on what the element he actually executes. If a skater pops a jump, he is judged on the portion of the jump that he does. So if a skater intends a triple but for whatever reason only manages a double, that double is judged as if it were planned. No?

 

[flying camel]

I just watched the medal ceremony. Ashley was visibly nervous. She was shaking to the point where it was so noticeable. She was trying to hide it the whole time she was on the podium. I think she just forgot to congratulate Caroline. I guess everyone is starting to feel a little of what Alissa has felt for years.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I was just playing around with the double/triple terminology. Call it hat you like, you get the same number of points for it (1.9).

But now that I think about it, the ISU must have a reason for designating the jump as 3Lz< in the protocols instead of 2Lz.

If it is a 2Lz, why not call it a 2Lz?

In fact, if I remember my CoP history, at first they did exactly that. If your 3Lz attempt was downgraded, it was listed as 2Lz. A couple of years ago the ISU apparently decided that, no, a downgraded 3Lz was a different animal from a 2Lz, deserving of its own special designation.

Same with the "e" call. If 3Lz "e" is the same as 3F, why are there two separate classifications in the protocols?

 

[mycelticblessing]

Just saw Leonova's LP. Her reaction was priceless! She was so excited she didn't have an ending pose and literally jumped off the ice.

 

[chuckm]

Well, I was just playing around with the double/triple terminology. Call it hat you like, you get the same number of points for it (1.9).

But now that I think about it, the ISU must have a reason for designating the jump as 3Lz< in the protocols instead of 2Lz.

If it is a 2Lz, why not call it a 2Lz?

In fact, if I remember my CoP history, at first they did exactly that. If your 3Lz attempt was downgraded, it was listed as 2Lz. A couple of years ago the ISU apparently decided that, no, a downgraded 3Lz was a different animal from a 2Lz, deserving of its own special designation.

Same with the "e" call. If 3Lz "e" is the same as 3F, why are there two separate classifications in the protocols?

They changed the way the jump was displayed when the rule was changed to make a deduction for a UR mandatory.

3Z "e" isn't quite the same as a 3F because after the mandatory deduction, its value is actually lower than that of a 3F.

Remember, the skater gets a copy of the protocol as soon as they come off the ice. The symbols (and deductions) call attention to flaws in their skating that they need to work on.

 

[PolymerBob]

I was busy all weekend, so didn't finish watching the JW ladies until just now. I'd like to get in on some of this Caroline horse-beating action but I'll limit it to 4 words.

"I told you so!"

:sheesh:

I think the arguments are rapidly coming to an end. I will not try to decide if the judging was fair. Since I am not a judge, I can not determine that. But regardless of regardless, one fact was amply demonstrated...........

............ Caroline is the TOP American lady ...... junior OR senior.

Opposing viewpoints are welcome.

 

[chuckm]

Yes, of the three US competitors at JW (Zhang, Wagner, Hacker), Caroline was indeed the best. In the context of ALL the US ladies, she is in the top 3.