The New HD Replay

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think you would get more imput on Frank Caroll if all the posts mentioning him were taken out of this thread and placed in an original thread.

No one who has info on Frank or cares about Frank is aware of him being the topic in this thread.

 

[merrybari]

Back to topic - I think.

For me HD is a moot point. It's like saying the caller needs better glasses - without having him/her even wearing them. I agree with the poster that if a caller needs HD as opposed to "regular" screen definition to tell, he needs to get a different job.

For my money, slo-mo is a fallacy as well. Often distorting rather than clarifying the position.

Here's a thought - do away with slo-mo/replay. If the naked eye can't tell, it doesn't matter.

I agree with those who feel the sport is getting too analytical in knit-picking hundreds of points and fractions of turns without taking into account the full nature of the performance. Simply put - a standing "O" should count for something, but sometimes doesn't.

 

[Particle Man]

Looks like people are much more eager to talk about the complete corruption of the ISU system than about HDTV. I would concur. Do any other sports have these problems? Why is our sport so plagued with corruption? Other than depriving ourselves of attending events, what is our recourse? I am always tempted to start protesting at ISU events, like wearing anti-speedy shirts, but I figure no one will care and I'll just get kicked out. Maybe if enough people did it, though, they'd have to tolerate it?

knit-picking

Is that what you do when your yarn has lint in it?

 

[merrybari]

Is that what you do when your yarn has lint in it?

Yep! :agree: It also means going after the small stuff and ignoring what's more important! (LIke the whole sweater!)

 

[Mathman]

... means going after the small stuff and ignoring what's more important! (LIke the whole sweater!)

:agree:

 

[Medusa]

Looks like people are much more eager to talk about the complete corruption of the ISU system than about HDTV. I would concur. Do any other sports have these problems? Why is our sport so plagued with corruption?

Every sport with judging has it's problems; e.g. gymnastics, diving, ski jumping, snowboarding, rhythmic gymnastics (where the Russians keep winning no matter what).

Then there are scandals in football (cheating referees, entire teams playing badly as part of a deal), in handball (also about referees)... Instant replay e.g. has always been a controversial topic in football, it's forbidden and lots of people are not okay with that anymore.

You also got the doping scandals, which are in my opinion spoiling the fun of the sports fan just as much, if not even more. And so many sports are affected here, track & field, swimming, cycling (probably the most extreme example), all kinds of skiing.

What bothers me immensely these days is the state of swimming. The new swimming suits, that turn you into a fish - give the swimmer a big advantage over swimmers without the suit. That is proven, that's the reason for all those records at the last Olympics and during the last year. It's a bit like bobsleigh, where the Germans win because we got the best engineering skills - these days it's not so much about who is the best swimmer, but about who can afford the newest technology. The solution to turn swimming back into a sport is easy: just make people wear the speedo again. Why is that not done? Purely economical reasons, all those companies who developped the new suits are huge investors of the swimming unions. That whole story spoils swimming big time for me.

So yes, the corruption that likely exists in figure skating is horrific and I would love to see a fair contest. But then again, most sports I can think of have a lot of problems, it's either doping, corruption, cheating... Or all three together. That doesn't make figure skating better, it just makes it as flawed as many other sports.

 

[Particle Man]

I don't find most of those things to be equivalent. In figure skating, the corruption is there right at the highest levels, and from what's talked about in this thread, will continue to keep a stranglehold on the sport. What other sport has secret judging? What other sport has the head of the sport trying to force its packaging and sale with other sports no one cares about (speed skating)? A bad ref is a bad ref, but have we seen consistently cheating refs being planted year after year as an organized conspiracy by federations of the sport? How about cheating refs in football or baseball, once discovered wouldn't they be banned for life? Sigh.

 

[i love to skate]

So yes, the corruption that likely exists in figure skating is horrific and and I would love to see a fair contest. But then again, most sports I can think of have a lot of problems, it's either doping, corruption, cheating... Or all three together. That doesn't make figure skating better, it just makes it as flawed as many other sports.

I agree. Every single sport has something that is corrupt or unfair. There isn't a "perfect" sport out there.

 

[Mathman]

^ Still, Particle Man makes a good point. In every other sport, when a corrupt judge, referee, official, etc. is caught red-handed, disgracing the sport, at least that person is kicked out.

In figure skating it seems to be expected. Of course we cheat, doesn't everyone?

 

[i love to skate]

^ Still, Particle Man makes a good point. In every other sport, when a corrupt judge, referee, official, etc. is caught red-handed, disgracing the sport, at least that person is kicked out.

In figure skating it seems to be expected. Of course we cheat, doesn't everyone?

Officials are not always kicked out. Many receive a ban of a couple years or probation - except when it is a criminal charge. For example, Tim Donaghy - the NBA official who went to jail for fixing games. Donaghy even stated that fixing of games went well above the referees heads and guess what - the NBA denied it.

Figure skating is not the only sport. In many of the other sports people have no idea how high the corruptness goes or what the "powers at be" are. Even when the athlete is at fault (ie. doping) they often only receive a ban of a couple years.

I also don't believe the judges are the big bad people they are often made out to be. Some are - sure. But I would say the majority are in it for the right reasons. JMO

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Back to topic - I think.

For me HD is a moot point. It's like saying the caller needs better glasses - without having him/her even wearing them. I agree with the poster that if a caller needs HD as opposed to "regular" screen definition to tell, he needs to get a different job.

For my money, slo-mo is a fallacy as well. Often distorting rather than clarifying the position.

But on another thread there is measurement to consider an UR and fractions like 1/8 and 3/8 enter the picture for different reasons. I can't imagine the eye can discern the difference between 1/8 and 3/8 so maybe the slomo can. I dunno and I agree that scoring FS has already become cumbersome.

 

[merrybari]

But on another thread there is measurement to consider an UR and fractions like 1/8 and 3/8 enter the picture for different reasons. I can't imagine the eye can discern the difference between 1/8 and 3/8 so maybe the slomo can. I dunno and I agree that scoring FS has already become cumbersome.

True, and I think this is where it gets bogged down, and where abuse can come into play. Depending on the angle, it looks different from where you sit, for instance, from where I do, even if we're looking at the same screen. Try it at home on TV. Or the instant replay I've seen from football games when they show what it looks like from different cameras in different locations. Location, location, location!

I still ask if it doesn't disrupt the flow of the program, does it really matter? Part of the sport is, imo, the overall impact the program makes, and that's the part that seems to get buried in having to determine those 1/8ths of a turn to determine results in competition.