Yagudin and Plushenko: What's their story?

[Marrymeyunakim]

I was recently watching Yagudin's OGM winning performance in Salt Lake City and came by the fact that apparently there was some fierce rivalry not only between the pair of them but also their coaches, Tat and Mishin. Can someone fill me in as to what had happened between these two brilliant skater to cause such animosity? I feel like it's an intriguing story, and I heard that part of why Alexei wanted to do well was because he wanted to somehow prove himself to his old coach, Mishin.

 

[Nadia01]

Unless I'm mistaken I think Mishin taught Plushy & Yagudin at the same time, and some whatever reason considered Plush better than Yagudin (or so Yagudin felt).

 

[MasterB]

Bochinche (gossip)

Mishin was teaching both of them at the same time. Yagudin came on the scene about a year or two before Plushenko. Plushenko was making a mark for himself. After 98 Oly Plushenko became his main rival. I think he felt there was only room for one star per coach, so he left. Furthermore he came to the U.S.A. to train. Things in Russia were not that great at the time, economically. As the reigning world champion he was making lots of money at the time.

I think he made the right decision to leave Mishin. After all he wasn't going to tell his coach to get rid of Plushenko.

The media did make a big deal of the rivalry between the two of them for the 2002 Oly's but, who knows how much was real.

 

[Hikaru]

lol I loved to see the word "Bochinche" in the MB, first time I see someone using it lol

I think there was an animosity between them.. was it just looking for the attention of a coach? I read that Mishin is to men skaters what Tamara Moskvina is to pair skaters... but I think whatever make Alexei leave him for Tat was the best, they really clicked and where able to bring out the best of him.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

lol I loved to see the word "Bochinche" in the MB, first time I see someone using it lol

I think there was an animosity between them.. was it just looking for the attention of a coach? I read that Mishin is to men skaters what Tamara Moskvina is to pair skaters... but I think whatever make Alexei leave him for Tat was the best, they really clicked and where able to bring out the best of him.

Although I have heard about their animosity, I also heard that as kids they used to get on.

 

[Olympia]

Bochinche--what a great word!

I wonder whether the cause of the animosity was two large egos each fighting to be the only one in the sunlight. There's a cliche line from Western movies: "This town ain't big enough for the both of us." Usually a gunfight ensues moments after.

If this situation is true, it certainly shows Browning/Stojko and the two Brians in a good light by contrast. Browning could have been deeply resentful of Stojko for "taking his place," especially when Stojko won that first Olympic medal and Browning, for all his genius, came up empty. And Orser and Boitano were even from rival countries. Yet by all accounts each of these four guys treated his respective rival with warmth. I heard a lovely story about Boitano (maybe from one of you), who went into the men's bathroom after the Olympic victory in Calgary to find Orser lying on the floor in anguish. "Is there anything I can say?" said Boitano. "Nothing," said Orser. I've actually heard Boitano say that he deliberately kept his reaction on the podium restrained so as not to rub Orser's nose in his victory. Gentlemen on both sides of that rivalry! And certainly Kurt and Elvis seem to have behaved in a friendly, civilized manner throughout their careers.

It doesn't take anything away from Yagudin and Plushenko's talent if they were like wolverines competing for turf, of course. But nice to know it can be handled another way.

 

[Ptichka]

Yagudin looked down on Plush for many reasons. Plush was a "provincial" adolescent - all peterburgian students looked down on him. I also think Yagudin is more willful and had more of a problem with Mishin's overbearing style; at the same time, Mishin had more of an issue with Yagudin's willfulness. Evgeny saw a father figure in Mishin; Alexei did not.

Mishin/ TT rivalry goes back a long way. TT was much more of an establishment person than Mishin. Due to her father's fame, she was able to land Rodnina and Zaitsev for her students when she was just starting out as a coach. Mishin, OTOH, for many years couldn't even travel abroad with his students (there was some intrigue, someone claimed he was a flight risk; he now says he know who it was who made trouble for him). Furthermore, Mishin always had some disdain for ice dancing coaches and the way they (Tchaikovskaya, TT, Dubova) always bickered and back-stabbed. Finally, when TT started to coach singles, Mishin didn't appreciate it, and saw it as something artsy-dancy replacing the discipline with jumps etc.

Also, I believe the media really overplayed the whole thing. BTW, I don't think TT has much of a problem with Mishin.

 

[Buttercup]

If this situation is true, it certainly shows Browning/Stojko and the two Brians in a good light by contrast.

It doesn't take anything away from Yagudin and Plushenko's talent if they were like wolverines competing for turf, of course. But nice to know it can be handled another way.

You have to remember, though, that Kurt, Elvis and the Brians were adults; when Yagudin left Mishin, he was barely 18, and Plushenko was 15.

I've heard all sorts of stories about what happened - that Yagudin felt ignored by Mishin, or that Mishin saw him as inferior; and that Plushenko was bullied by the other, older skaters in Mishin's group, Yagudin included. I don't know what's true and what isn't, but it was obvious that Yagudin and Plushenko did not like each other as competitors, and that the former was resentful towards Mishin, and not just because of the infamous One Banana . At SLC, he made a point of noting that only TaT was responsible for his OGM.

Yags and Plush seem to have gotten over their animosity. Maybe if they hadn't been so young they would have handled it better at the time. Perhaps Mishin could have done something to reduce the tension between them - but he may have felt it would drive them to work harder. In the end, everything worked out for the best, because I don't believe Mishin could have gotten Yagudin to the level he achieved under Tarasova, and the rivalry between them was good for skating.

 

[plushyta]

Of course the media is to exaggerate all

... but also annoys me a long time comparing the two men :frown2: .... Yagudin so long stop competing, that it was their "rivalry" has become musty

 

[Olympia]

The point about Yagudin's and Plushenko's extremely young ages at the time of the rivalry is an important one, Buttercup. Also, I think that the Russian system must have been a huge pressure cooker for coaches and skaters alike in those days. So much national pride was wrapped up in skating outcomes. A lot of behavior is excused by the tension from that situation, I think.

Ptichka, Interesting insights into the different approaches to coaching by Tarasova and Mishin. Wasn't Kulik also a Mishin student? Golly, those three skaters' jump technique are so gorgeous to watch. Mishin has a lot to be proud of. Even today, as a pro, Kulik's jumps are a joy to behold, and Yagudin managed to survive on that bad hip for so long, partly because his technique was so strong. And look at Plushy coming back at or near the top of the podium! Too bad we and the Japanese can't send some ladies to Mishin, but he'd probably eat them alive with his intensity. (Maybe he'd choose better music for Asada, though!)

 

[Pixie Cut]

Wasn't Kulik also a Mishin student?

No. The coach that gave Kulik his brilliant jumping technique was Victor Kudriavtsev. When asked about how he's sustained his jumps for so long, Kulik is quick to credit the foundation that Kudriavtsev laid.

Interesting, as a teenager Evan Lysacek spent a summer working with Kudriavtsev.

 

[life684]

No. The coach that gave Kulik his brilliant jumping technique was Victor Kudriavtsev. When asked about how he's sustained his jumps for so long, Kulik is quick to credit the foundation that Kudriavtsev laid.

Interesting, as a teenager Evan Lysacek spent a summer working with Kudriavtsev.

is Alena Leonova working with Kudriavtsev to improve her jumping technique, because prior to the GPF, i saw a photograph where Kudriavtsev was seen taking to Alla Piatova and Alena during the training.

 

[Tonichelle]

If this situation is true, it certainly shows Browning/Stojko and the two Brians in a good light by contrast.

in the case of the Brians, Orser has made comments in teh past that while there was no animosity while they were competing, they weren't friends, either. Unlike his relationship with Scotty - if you go by what Scott recalls in his book - where there actually was a friendship.

As for Kurt/Stojko, I believe Elvis had some choice words for Kurt way back when, but they were able to move on later... I could be wrong, but around 94 Elvis was staking his claim as #1 in Canada and I think he felt threatened by Kurt's staying in for one more shot at the olympics