Virtue and Moir on Par with Torvill and Dean

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Tessa and Scott danced away with their silent skates, the seemingly floating in air, the stunning lifts and body movements to Mahler's 5th Symphony. It was as if Kathy and Heathcliffe were their ideal pairing.

I felt the performance (which it was) on par with the performance of Torvahl and Dean's Bolero and these two very different performances will remain in that limited class of Great Performances

Do you agree?

This is about performances - not about competition.

 

[Mathman]

:yes:

I think you and I are going to be in the minority on this one, Joe. But yes, I think Virtue and Moir's perfromance was better.

I know that's sacrilege, but I think we tend to view the nostalgic past through rose-colored glasses. Katarina Witt and Scott Hamilton were great skaters of the same era, but the sports of ice skating and ice dancing have, like all sports, progressed to new levels.

 

[janetfan]

Torville and Dean became the talk of Sarajevo. I think V/M's skating will also be remembered from Vancouver.
I haven't seen such beautiful skating/performing in quite a while.

I loved the program from the music to the understated but elegant costumes, the wonderfully beautiful choreo and the breath taking performance from Tessa and Scott.

I hope V/M will show us more of this style in future and I rate their performance an instant classic.

 

[Scout]

I also think V/M will become legends. Not only was their Olympic freedance spectacular as a whole, but there were also so many great emotional moments where they captured and projected the mood perfectly.

 

[Fielding]

I know that's sacrilege, but I think we tend to view the nostalgic past through rose-colored glasses. Katarina Witt and Scott Hamilton were great skaters of the same era, but the sports of ice skating and ice dancing have, like all sports, progressed to new levels.

I quite agree about the rose-colored glasses, but you have to judge individual skaters by the standards of their time, I think. (And there are things I miss from the olden days. ) Certainly Virtue and Moir set a new standard last night, however. All the old fashioned virtues, so to speak , plus the speed and skills of the present day. What a pleasure to watch.

 

[jennylovskt]

I also think that V/M is in a class of their own. I have discovered them three years ago in Valse Triste (I know. I was so slow. So many have already rated them as the future stars long ago at that time.). They have immidiately become my new favorites in ice dance. Love their classical style!

 

[blue_idealist]

I recently watched T&D videos on YouTube, and I have to say I *prefer* Virtue & Moir, and Davis & White. But V&M don't have all the titles that T&D have.. YET.. so I'm not sure if they can be called equally 'legendary'.. YET.

 

[nastasi1212]

Virtue and Moir are extremely talented.
They float on the ice. They have the greatest lifts I ve ever seen. They are elegant, charismatic and beautiful bodies. Their body language and connection to each other is truly something exceptional.
I loved the music, the costumes, the intepretation, the lifts, I loved them most of all for what they gave on the ice BUT does someone else think that they co do greater things with another coreography? It seems like they can perform difficutl elements with ease, twizzles and all, but I felt tere was nothing in between... Anyway that doesn't keep me from saying I feel they are the best dancers in a long long time, and if they continue which I hope so, they definitely have a place in history with T/D and G/P.. I don't want to compare couple that are seperated with so many years, it wouldn't be fair, cause ice dancing has evolved a lot.

 

[blue_idealist]

I don't even know if I'd call Grishuk and Platov legendary. I mean, they were good, but they often benefited from politics that kept them at the top even if they were not the best.

 

[Buttercup]

I don't think it's necessary to do this sort of "are they the new Torvill and Dean"? "Are Shen and Zhao better than G/G?" "Is Mirai the new Sasha?" etc. Skaters aren't the new version of older ones, they're doing their own thing and we should evaluate them based on how well they do it.

Specifically as to V/M, I think they're phenomenal but it remains to be seen how they'll be viewed twenty years from now and what kind of impact they'll have on skating. T/D did some groundbreaking, innovative programs, and that's what made them truly memorable, not the titles they won. Whereas with Scott and Tessa, I think they have beautiful performances but aren't really pushing ice dance in a new direction; what they are doing is showing how to create something beautiful within the new system. My point is, great teams aren't necessarily great in the same way. Either way, I'll be happy to see what V/M do next.

 

[katha]

V/M are REALLY good, don't get me wrong. They and D/W upped the ante technically in a considerable way, you could see all the other teams trying and failing to keep up IMO. But it's their first title, the future will show what effects they will have on the sport. IMO they share this technical breakthrough with Davis/White. And they are very still very young and for my taste too conservative and same, same in the artistry department. Until they dare go out of their comfort zone and skate to something other than "romantic first love" programs with soft music in the background they still have ways to go.

And it's ridiculously unfair to compare skaters from 25 years ago to the technical standards of today. Yeah, T/D don't measure up in that regard, but neither do they when you compare their programs from the 80ies with, for example, Anissinina/Peizerat's from the beginning of the decade or with Grishuk/Platov's (IMO also pioneers in pushing massive technical content into the dance competition) from the mid-nineties. But T/D revolutionized dance in the way choreography worked (no more plastering together seven different ballroom rhythms in one FD...seriously, look at Linichuk/Karponosov's Olympic free skate from 1980. It wasn't pretty.), bringing in ballet and modern dance influences (yes, Pakhamova/Gorshkov laid some groundwork for that, and yes, V/M's programs are also more technically difficult than theirs from the 70ies ). Their work as pro skaters is perhaps even more outstanding. IMO you can't dismiss legends like that just because they look less than perfect on grainy youtube.

As for Grishuk/Platov, am biased, loved them, but IMO Tracy Wilson with her B/K obsession did major damage to the perception of ice dance in North America at the time. As the German and British commentators were pointing out all the time, G/P were often skating circles around their competition (at least technically). Yes, there were politiks. There are always politiks in dance. Doesn't make G/P any less great IMO. I have this one tape where she says that G/P's Peter Gabriel FD is like an exhibition and not as technically demanding as B/K's high society. She was so ridiculously biased against them it wasn't even funny. Yeesh, I get angry only thinking about it...

 

[nastasi1212]

I agree with the previous post... V/M are literally perfect but I would like to see something different in choreography from them...
T/D were innovative... G/P were original, I loved the nagano memorial FD,
I feel if V/M were given an original and innovative choreography we will see unforgettable dances from them, because they have verything else..

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I also think that V/M is in a class of their own. I have discovered them three years ago in Valse Triste (I know. I was so slow. So many have already rated them as the future stars long ago at that time.). They have immidiately become my new favorites in ice dance. Love their classical style!

That's when I first noticed them as special. That Valse Triste put them in another category from the rambunctious styles of Ice Dancing which was prevelant at the time. It's not easy to skate emotionally without a story from the Opera or Ballet.

I recently watched T&D videos on YouTube, and I have to say I *prefer* Virtue & Moir, and Davis & White. But V&M don't have all the titles that T&D have.. YET.. so I'm not sure if they can be called equally 'legendary'.. YET.

As I said, it is not about competition and titles. It's about performance. I have no idea what Mahler had in mind or was feeling when he wrote that magnificent symphony, but it was V/M that brought me the emotional quality of the music. I dont think anyone should attempt to use Mahler's Fifth in the future. V/M's was the definitive.
You are probably correct in saying that they are not quite legendary yet. T/D did show that incredible Fox Trot at one Olys. I'm hoping we see another side of V/M in the future.

I'm not on D/W's bandwagon yet. They are excellent competitors but their performances, for me, do not go beyond the competitive stage.

 

[janetfan]

I remember Sarajevo very well. ABC ran many commercials promoting the skating Gala - and for the chance to see T/D's encore performance of "Bolero."

I wouldn't mind seeing V/M give us an encore performance of their brilliant free dance either but have no idea what they will skate to in the Gala.

Scott and Kati won Gold in Sarajevo but the undisputed skating stars at the '84 Olympics were T/D.
I am not sure if V/M will reach that level even though they skated on home ice.

in Pairs S/Z were such sentimental favorites but P/T had the better LP.
The Men's event was ruined by bad sportsmanship and I suspect the Ladies event might turn out that way as well.

If under such circumstances V/M do not become the talk of Vancouver I would say their "performance" did not equal T/D for impact.

I am in no way referring to the actual skating but only the impact on skating fans and the public.

 

[mishieru07]

I would say V/M are V/M and T/D are T/D. Both are wonderful dance couples and we're really lucky to have them. They come from different eras so it's hard to tell.

I jumped on the ice dance bandwagon back in 2007 as well because of V/M.

Prior to that, I watched the Torino Medallists' dances. Completely not impressed; I thought it was so OTT and trashy.

V/M's 2007 FD really put the dance into ice dancing for me. I was utterly mesmerized. They didn't have the fantastic lifts they do today and their footwork, transitions et al certainly wasn't as good but oh my goodness, they danced. It wasn't theatrics or faux O faces; it was just dancing.

I think V/M's Olympic FD will go down into the annals of FS history as one of the greatest dances ever, just like T/D's Bolero. It gave me chills. Words can't describe how breathtakingly beautiful and graceful it is, a blend of artistry and technical difficulty. They skated their FD from the bottom of their hearts and turned 4+ minutes into pure magic. Their chemistry is truly something very special. They just have that x-factor that brings you into their programmes with them.

Whether they will be remembered years down the road as a legend remains to be seen. I believe they have the technical goods and innate artistry though.

I really wonder how they'll top Mahler! But they did have a voidy FD for 2009. I'm pretty keen on seeing them explore different artistic directions though. They've proven they can do different styles with the CDs and ODs.

 

[Wicked]

I think Torvill and Dean are legends and that of this current crop of ice dancers two teams have the potential to be legends- Virtue and Moir and Davis and White.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think Torvill and Dean are legends and that of this current crop of ice dancers two teams have the potential to be legends- Virtue and Moir and Davis and White.

Davis and White have developed a keen sense of dancing for points. They are really so much more competitive than V/M, but Virtue and Moir have gone beyond being competitive and into the world of Grand Art. I hope V/M repeat their Mahler for the Gala. I really don't want to see any more faux Indian poses while dancing.

 

[katha]

Davis and White have developed a keen sense of dancing for points. They are really so much more competitive than V/M, but Virtue and Moir have gone beyond being competitive and into the world of Grand Art. I hope V/M repeat their Mahler for the Gala. I really don't want to see any more faux Indian poses while dancing.

See, I feel that V/M's safety approach of only skating to slow, romantic music in their FDs is just as calculated as D/W's admittedly sometimes overly frantic technical dazzle. And I think their Bollywood OD is brilliant, the most interesting this season. Ok, perhaps not exactly real "folk", but what team is really "authentic"? But then, I'm not moved to tears by V/M and don't think they have transcendent artistry. They have, together with D/W, catapulted the technical requirements in ice dancing to another level. If they can build on that remains to be seen. This sport is so subjective isn't it, one person's "brilliant" is another person's "okay"....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

See, I feel that V/M's safety approach of only skating to slow, romantic music in their FDs is just as calculated as D/W's admittedly sometimes overly frantic technical dazzle. And I think their Bollywood OD is brilliant, the most interesting this season. Ok, perhaps not exactly real "folk", but what team is really "authentic"? But then, I'm not moved to tears by V/M and don't think they have transcendent artistry. They have, together with D/W, catapulted the technical requirements in ice dancing to another level. If they can build on that remains to be seen. This sport is so subjective isn't it, one person's "brilliant" is another person's "okay".

[
You are making statements about catapulting the techniqal requirements. Since I am rather green on Ice Dance, what does that mean beyond the general term. (the general term seems just like an opinon.) Is soft dancing supposed to be easier? I'm just not one for over-the-top dances, and I thought White was more subdued than ever in his interpretation of Indian dancing. I am aware of the Lyrical and Bravura interpretations and realize that both can be valid depending on the artists involved. Some dances in ballet do lend themselves more to bravura than lyrical. I have no preference so long as they work. There is Ulanova's Swan Lake and there is Plitsiskaya's

Let's see what happens in the gala.

I do like your last sentence which I emblazoned where you described the sport as subjective. I definitely agree. I called it on another thread as a preference.

I studied Spanish Dancing as a kid and I enjoyed V/M's Flamenco which was very much different than their Mahler, so they are quite capable of a variety of dances and rhythms.

 

[nastasi1212]

I have watched V/M free dance twenty times! I LOVE LOVE LOVE THEM.
I think they are gems.
I have started to think they are the best team ever.
How wonderful effortless extremely difficult lifts! How lovely butterlike footwork! Such beautiful upper bodies! Swanlike arms!
Tessa is truly like a fairy on ice. Scot is graceful and yet masculine. Such chemistry between these two. You watch them and you feel like they are in love.
Their lifts are so fast and yet graceful, changing position so lightly you can't tell what they are doing. Its like watching birds fly... This FD will go down in history.
Such progrees in ice dance since 2006... If they decide to continue competing they will become legends.
I think they are the most beautiful couple I ve seen. ANd now I am waiting to see them in more dynamic dances. I feel if they try it they are so talentet they will "explode" artistically.