What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

[feraina]

I remember reading that she had a trio of Chinese girls that had come from China to train with her a year or two ago...not sure if they are still there.

They have been gone for a while. By the way, the youngest of that trio, Zijun Li, a 13-yr-old, has just won a National Championship, beating out Yan Liu by over 10 points (she was second place behind Yan Liu last time). She has all five triples (though a flutz), good spins and spirals, good speed, good performance skills. It will be fun to see her up on the JGP circuit next year along with the new crop of U.S. and Russian girls. JGP will be very exciting next year!

 

[#1Kerryfan]

I don't know what to expect from Caroline this year.... sometimes when people have a bad year they never really recover, and sometimes they come back strong...

 

[PolymerBob]

I don't know what to expect from Caroline this year.... sometimes when people have a bad year they never really recover, and sometimes they come back strong...

Caroline has a history of improving as the season progresses. If she overwhelms the competition at the Golden West at the end of August, she will probably have an excellent season.

 

[krenseby]

Caroline has a history of improving as the season progresses. If she overwhelms the competition at the Golden West at the end of August, she will probably have an excellent season.

Well not last season. She seemed to get worse as the season progressed, with 4CC being the exception.

 

[MKFSfan]

There's an aspect of her skating that makes me a bit angry--not at her but at whoever trained her. Kids don't learn jumps out of a textbook or by copying other skaters. They learn from a teacher. Clearly, Caroline is hardworking and talented. So why does she have such an awful lutz? Someone let her get away with it. I'm willing to wager that she's spent as many hours on the ice (and in off-ice training) as Mirai or anyone else. (Maybe not Evan Lysacek; he's kind of famous for being the supreme workhorse!) Why were those hours wasted learning a flawed technique? I like to hope that a different coach will help her figure out how to rebuild her jumps. But it does make me angry that such bad habits were allowed to build just for the sake of letting her climb the ladder a bit earlier.

I have no idea how true this is, but rumors had it Caroline is not an easy student. Yes, she spends a lot of time training, but what she actually does may not be the best training habits. I remember an interview where she pretty much stated she didn't do much off ice training, and on ice, she didn't warm up her triples (meaning, didn't do waltz jumps, single-double-triple, went straight to triples). Yes, someone allowed her to get comfortable with her jump technique and didn't make her learn proper technique, didn't demand more speed or better skating skills. Rumor also has it Mama Zhang is not easy to deal with either and a big presence during training time. So, maybe they gang up on the coach?

I don't think that will happen to Mirai. I don't think she has ever fallen more than twice in a LP and the only times she did that was in the 08-09 season, and again it only happened twice. Mirai has no issues with the LP unless she is in 1st. Her LP at the Olympics was great and her LP at SC this year was definitely solid, her LP at nationals this year and the year before even with the URs were still strong performances. Once she gets used to being in 1st after the SP I think she'll handle it better. Also, out of fairness to Mirai at Worlds, I think she expected Yuna would be substantially ahead of her after the SP and maybe even Mao too, so being in 1st was a big shock and she didn't really know how to deal with it. Mirai is not one to choke under pressure so I think she will be fine - plus, her consistently stellar SPs will help.

I hope you are right! I think Mirai has better skating skills and better jump technique than Sasha, so if she is well prepared, when nerves strike, she may loose some of her personality as she goes on auto-pilot, but that is still better than 2 falls. I really think a big piece will be solidifying her jump technique so that URs become a thing of the past. Right now, she still has to think through her jumps, and when nerves creep in, the 1st thing to happen is revert to old habits. We really haven't seen enough of Mirai under pressure to gauge what she's capable of. The most carefree we've seen of her has been at the Olympics this year, and I'd say these Nats 2nd. The year she won Nats, she was petrified for the LP, made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and again at Jr Worlds. But she is still so young! I think switching to Frank has been the best move, one that will see results! I think she will be like Yu-Na is which she can blow the field away with huge scores, and then can afford a less than perfect LP and still win. But I really like to see a Champion who skates very well in both phases.

 

[silverlake22]

I have no idea how true this is, but rumors had it Caroline is not an easy student. Yes, she spends a lot of time training, but what she actually does may not be the best training habits. I remember an interview where she pretty much stated she didn't do much off ice training, and on ice, she didn't warm up her triples (meaning, didn't do waltz jumps, single-double-triple, went straight to triples). Yes, someone allowed her to get comfortable with her jump technique and didn't make her learn proper technique, didn't demand more speed or better skating skills. Rumor also has it Mama Zhang is not easy to deal with either and a big presence during training time. So, maybe they gang up on the coach?


I hope you are right! I think Mirai has better skating skills and better jump technique than Sasha, so if she is well prepared, when nerves strike, she may loose some of her personality as she goes on auto-pilot, but that is still better than 2 falls. I really think a big piece will be solidifying her jump technique so that URs become a thing of the past. Right now, she still has to think through her jumps, and when nerves creep in, the 1st thing to happen is revert to old habits. We really haven't seen enough of Mirai under pressure to gauge what she's capable of. The most carefree we've seen of her has been at the Olympics this year, and I'd say these Nats 2nd. The year she won Nats, she was petrified for the LP, made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and again at Jr Worlds. But she is still so young! I think switching to Frank has been the best move, one that will see results! I think she will be like Yu-Na is which she can blow the field away with huge scores, and then can afford a less than perfect LP and still win. But I really like to see a Champion who skates very well in both phases.

I have heard similar things about Caroline, also about how she doesn't eat properly, apparently she really likes sweets but doesn't eat enough healthy food. Speaking of Colorado, does Chan have a coach yet? Is he still training at Broadmoor or did he go back to Canada?

And I agree about Mirai, she is a more all around skater and seems to have a better worth ethic than Caroline. Also I think her speed is a big advantage she has over Caroline, Mirai's speed helps her hang onto jumps that Caroline would fall on and I also think it helps Mirai's PCS a lot.

 

[MKFSfan]

I don't think Mirai necessarily has a better work ethic, but Frank does not allow her to not be focused or to slack off when she doesn't feel like it, etc. Even Mirai has admitted to having to get with Frank's program, that it was a wake up call for her.

 

[janetfan]

I don't think Mirai necessarily has a better work ethic, but Frank does not allow her to not be focused or to slack off when she doesn't feel like it, etc. Even Mirai has admitted to having to get with Frank's program, that it was a wake up call for her.

Yes, Mirai admitted as much - and said prior to coming to Frank she did not have a good work ethic, particulary her last year with Charlene.
Mirai has also said seeing how hard Evan trained made a big impact on her.

Caroline seems to be a hard worker - but I would bet if she trained under Frank for a month it would also be a big wakeup call - since I can't imagine Frank doing much besides reworking her jump technique and working on her SS.

 

[Spun Silver]

Is it really necessary to spread unsubstantiated rumors? If you're going to criticize the character or habits of someone who can't defend themselves (because obviously skaters can't do that here) it would be only fair to provide a source that can be evaluated. Otherwise it's hitting below the belt.

 

[silverlake22]

Yes, Mirai admitted as much - and said prior to coming to Frank she did not have a good work ethic, particulary her last year with Charlene.
Mirai has also said seeing how hard Evan trained made a big impact on her.

Caroline seems to be a hard worker - but I would bet if she trained under Frank for a month it would also be a big wakeup call - since I can't imagine Frank doing much besides reworking her jump technique and working on her SS.

I have no doubt Caroline is a hard worker, but you can be a hard worker and still do things "your" way and sometimes be uncooperative. As as for work ethic, I meant Mirai now, as I know she mentioned that last year she was "lazy and rebellious", but Frank made it clear he wouldn't tolerate that so she leaves that side of her at home when she skates. I wish Caroline would go to Rafael, he would teach her how to work the right way and fix her jumps but I feel their personalities would mesh better than Caroline and Frank's.

 

[MKFSfan]

Is it really necessary to spread unsubstantiated rumors? If you're going to criticize the character or habits of someone who can't defend themselves (because obviously skaters can't do that here) it would be only fair to provide a source that can be evaluated. Otherwise it's hitting below the belt.

You are 100% right, I apologize. I am a huge fan of these elite skaters-they all sacrifice so much in their pursuit of perfection, of that elusive Gold medal. I agree that Caroline has GOT to be a dedicated, hard worker, even if she's not as committed to fixing her weaknesses as she is with continuing to do what she has always done. I suspect when people perceived supposed "laziness" on Sasha's or Caroline's part, it has everything to do with not wanting to sacrifice immediate progress by fixing weaknesses which would take months and months to fix. There's a HUGE difference between being lazy and staying in their comfort zone, by not wanting to change the technique they relied on for years. I gave major props to Joannie for relearning her lutz even if it meant 2 subpar competitive seasons, and to Miki for learning to do a real flip. I only hope in a year we can add Mao with a new found lutz and salchow to the list.

 

[Spun Silver]

Thank you!

 

[silverlake22]

You are 100% right, I apologize. I am a huge fan of these elite skaters-they all sacrifice so much in their pursuit of perfection, of that elusive Gold medal. I agree that Caroline has GOT to be a dedicated, hard worker, even if she's not as committed to fixing her weaknesses as she is with continuing to do what she has always done. I suspect when people perceived supposed "laziness" on Sasha's or Caroline's part, it has everything to do with not wanting to sacrifice immediate progress by fixing weaknesses which would take months and months to fix. There's a HUGE difference between being lazy and staying in their comfort zone, by not wanting to change the technique they relied on for years. I gave major props to Joannie for relearning her lutz even if it meant 2 subpar competitive seasons, and to Miki for learning to do a real flip. I only hope in a year we can add Mao with a new found lutz and salchow to the list.

I agree and that's what I was trying to point out in my post above.

 

[PolymerBob]

I would say that if we are going to talk about unsubstantiated rumors, let’s look at all of them. We have rumors that Caroline does not take instruction well, and that she has a poor diet. But there is also an unsubstantiated rumor that Caroline was doing triple flips without a mule-kick in Colorado. All of these rumors cannot be true.

 

[Olympia]

I can certainly understand why people repeat suppositions about skaters. We're all so eager to find out how they're doing, especially when previously promising skaters seems to be going through hard times, that we seize on information that sounds knowledgeable. While I know there are posters out there who are malicious, I'm fairly sure that people in this conversation are genuinely puzzled or outright worried about Caroline and want to see her improve. I agree with those of you who have suggested that (in the best of all possible worlds, where all the skaters listen to us!) Caroline should go to a stricter, more technically savvy coach. It would be great if she could go to the proven Frank Carroll, but I guess it's unlikely that he would train both Zhang and Nagasu (although, come to think of it, don't Virtue/Moir and Davis/White share a training setup?), so I guess that's a dream on my part. I like the idea of Arutunian, then.

 

[mskater93]

Frank has never had two skaters in the same discipline at the same "level", so I doubt he'd take Zhang even if she wanted to go. How can you do that, anyway, without short shrifting one of them?

 

[silverlake22]

Frank has never had two skaters in the same discipline at the same "level", so I doubt he'd take Zhang even if she wanted to go. How can you do that, anyway, without short shrifting one of them?

I don't know, Orser has Rylie McCullough Carsarsa and Christina Gao and now Min-Jung Kwak and they are all in the same discipline, the same age, and at the same "level". It doesn't seem like any of those girls are short shifted.

 

[heyang]

I think that there is a lot of difference between practice and performing. During practice, it's easier to concentrate on doing it the 'right' way. In competition, the nerves come into play and most people will revert to bad habits. It takes a while to get rid of bad habits - practices being a large part as the repetition of doing it right brings in the muscle memory during competition. So reports of good practices might be true, but won't always carry over to competing initially.

After Chris Bowman, I'm sure Frank decided that he would only work with people who would do it his way. I think Chris was a heartbreaker for many coaches....

 

[Tinymavy15]

Frank has never had two skaters in the same discipline at the same "level", so I doubt he'd take Zhang even if she wanted to go. How can you do that, anyway, without short shrifting one of them?

Well he had Tim Goebel when he took on Evan but sort of had his assistant coach work with Evan most of the time. Rivals do share coaches often, Davis and White/ Virtue and Moir, Naomi Nari Nam/Sasha Cohen, Domina and Shabalin/Belbin and Agosto, all the Chinese pairs, the two Florida pairs, jeremey Abbott/ Ryan Bradley, Yagudin and Plushenko.

 

[jjane45]

Rivals do share coaches often, ... Yagudin and Plushenko.

Did you bring up Yag and Plush to show how unstable such situation is?
From FB it seems like Caroline still has not returned to California.
I wonder if she will pull a Patrick Chan and decide to stay in Colorado for coaching...