Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged | Page 30 | Golden Skate

Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

Well the thing is that the reveal of her programs was always a big deal. They'd literally have news reporters it seems come in and show clips of her program, and have David and Brian talk about the program. It may seem silly to you are me, but Yu-na is BIG news in Korea, and so finding out what her new programs are is big news. And if you can promise certain media organizations "the scoop" to promote said big news, it helps you in a variety of ways. And nobody knows all of this better than Brian.

Great post, bekalc. Yuna is a huge deal in the Korean media. Bloggers and "netizens" would spend months speculating about her music choices, and once the music is revealed, all the major news stations air segments formally revealing the music to the public. Every little detail of her skating makes headlines in the media - I remember that when Yuna started practicing the 3Lz-3Toe combination, several major news stations aired segments just on the story that she has a new combination in her arsenal.

That said, the music itself is such a culturally meaningful piece for Koreans. Orser's early disclosure might ruffle some feathers from that perspective.

This kind of promotional marketing strategies is huge in Korea. It's just a part of the media culture. Even in Korean pop music, entertainment companies release short 30sec teasers of new singles and music videos weeks before their release, with everything enveloped in secrecy until the final release date. From that standpoint, I can definitely understand why Orser's music slip-up is becoming such a big deal.
 
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I think we only have AT Skates word on this. Wilson, to his credit is keeping quiet about this. He is quoted once by ATS but hardly sounds hysterical.

I do think it was a mistake for Brian to mention the music and I think Yuna's choice this year did have a special significance to her Korean fans. Many have been hoping Yuna would skate to this for many years.

Yeah I noticed that too. Only AT Skates word on this but I don't think they'd be that desperately stupid to LIE about it. Wilson is to be applauded for his behavior through this. Professionalism unquestioned.

Even if its true that it was a huge shock and even more so even if it was intended to harm (LOL), I'm hoping Yuna will come out and wave it away for the sake of the party (yeah its not a surprise birthday party) and forgive it quickly, comment that she believed it a genuine attempt to compliment (regardless of whether its true -for the sake of the peace). It might even restore her image of professionalism to a degree that's been sledgehammered and also calm down the situation somewhat.
 
Yeah I didn't know that either. Interesting story about the media broadcasts getting the first scoop. That IS correct? Obviously not likely to be a link to such a statement.

Well all I know is and if everyone has noticed whenever Yu-na comes out with her music, we always see a Korean News clip. Its been that way since 2007. I was kind of speculating about how if you give news media organizations (certain ones the first scoop) Its pretty clear that its a big deal.

Thething to about releasing the music is that it puts more pressure on Yu-na to continue. That music from what I'm reading is really special to Korea. And now all of Korea's hopes are up about seeing Yu-na perform that music in Japan. (The music has connotations with their history of Japan too, I believe it was song by a lot of groups longing for freedom from Japan)

So before while she could truly wait to reveal that music, until she was sure she was coming back now...

Perhaps, but there might be some norms of Korean culture which would be considered disrespectful in North America, I think, such as silent avoidance in the face of potential conflict...?

Yeah I was reading about some stuff like that. Sigh.. I really think the Kims needed a better translator, and really if they are going to work in North America, a Korean American or a Korean Canadian would be a good idea. Somebody who could help them understand the norms of American culture, and at the very least smooth some ruffled feathers.
 
I doubt she'll do anything in the meantime. I don't think she was emotionally prepared to switch coaches. This is her senior circuit coach. Who she got an OGM with. It'll be hard to move on.

If it's true that SHE made the decision, though (she seemed to say so very clearly in her notes), I think she'll move on just fine. OTOH, if her mom either made the decision for her or manipulated her into making that decision, then I can agree with you. Sadly, either way, it's close to the end for her.

ETA: and to the above poster, that's a good point about how significant that song is. Is Yuna SURE that she wants to compete at 2011 worlds? Maybe now with that song they'll EXPECT her to be there- or if she backs out, she'll get major flack for it. I could see how this puts her in a sticky spot...
 
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If it's true that SHE made the decision, though (she seemed to say so very clearly in her notes), I think she'll move on just fine. OTOH, if her mom either made the decision for her or manipulated her into making that decision, then I can agree with you. Sadly, either way, it's close to the end for her.

ETA: and to the above poster, that's a good point about how significant that song is. Is Yuna SURE that she wants to compete at 2011 worlds? Maybe now with that song they'll EXPECT her to be there- or if she backs out, she'll get major flack for it. I could see how this puts her in a sticky spot...

I got the impression she made the decision but had trouble with accepting her own decision (aka timetable, confusion, Michelle Kwan??) rather than her mother making her do it.

And that is an interesting point about the worlds thing. Given how it was a long program and she did say she's been at worlds I doubt she'll back out of it because she didn't even back out of worlds after the Olympics due to South Korean national pressure. I don't think she'd say she'll be at worlds to South Korea and not go based on her past choices.

I think the song thing is probably more based on $$ for ATS and the surprise present thing for South Korea.

(Edit: Then again, who knows. This was a surprise too... and everything was murky since Vancouver with Kim in terms of will she continue or will she leave.)
 
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Confucian teachings certainly say, honor your teacher. But I believe it was Confucius who also wrote,

Honor thy father and thy mother that thy days may be long upon this earth that the Lord hath given thee.

Or, conversely, if you don't honor your father and mother your days upon the earth will be cut short. :yes:
 
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Confucian teachings certainly say, honor your teacher. But I believe it was Confucius who also wrote,



Or, conversely, if you don't honor you father and mother your days upon the earth will be cut shut short. :yes:

LOL. Pretty sure that's from the Bible. ;):biggrin:

Edit: Just google pasted lol and its Exodus 20:12. :thumbsup: Although I think lots of Koreans are Christians so who knows if that works its way in to the Confucian culture too?? Isn't like 50% of Korea Christian? (Edit2: I got this from some article about the American being held in North Korea, Gomes, being Christian and South Korea being Christian. I'm too lazy to look this up as its unrelated to this...)

Edit: Not trying to make this into a religious thread btw, I just like to clarify all facts for our mutual learning. :thumbsup:
 
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I agree that Yu-na does seem to be the type where if she promises she'll do something, she does. I have a feeling though that Orser may be right about this program. It maybe Yu-na's greatest piece and perhaps her swan song. Although maybe not.

(I'm not so sure Yu-na's done. This girl is made of stronger stuff than that, I think. Look at that Tweet, even if it was Mama who told her stuff or whatever, that was still some backbone there. I wouldn't be surprised if she know wants to stay in, just to prove she can win without Orser.
 
I agree that Yu-na does seem to be the type where if she promises she'll do something, she does. I have a feeling though that Orser may be right about this program. It maybe Yu-na's greatest piece and perhaps her swan song. Although maybe not.

(I'm not so sure Yu-na's done. This girl is made of stronger stuff than that, I think. Look at that Tweet, even if it was Mama who told her stuff or whatever, that was still some backbone there. I wouldn't be surprised if she know wants to stay in, just to prove she can win without Orser.

I don't think the "tweet" was anything Yuna will be proud of. The fact that it was removed makes a good case for that. It took no courage to send it since it was an electronice messgae and not face to face. It did show as an earlier article pointed out she may have the maturity level of a 14 year old.

My feeling is that it might be Ms Park that wants to prove she can win without Orser - I don't see how Yuna would care herself being she is an Olympic Champion and holder of all the important skating titles.
 
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Confucian teachings certainly say, honor your teacher. But I believe it was Confucius who also wrote,



Or, conversely, if you don't honor your father and mother your days upon the earth will be cut short. :yes:

um, no he was not the one that wrote that.
 
I hope Yuna does not go down the path Sarah H. did in 2003...all I'm saying. Either quit on top, or be damn sure you're in tip-top shape for worlds- as OLY champ, expectations will be quite high.

IOW- I hope Mrs. Park and/or the Korean Fed. is not pushing her to continue skating against her will. It WILL show in her performances...
 
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MrBerkeley,

Lol. I don't think silent avoidance in the face of potential conflict is respectful in Korea either. Who knows. Can someone verify this? I would think ignoring someone coming off as negligent or insulting is universal.

I would think so. Well, it may depend on different situations though. But in most of the time, if it's disrepectful in NA, then it will also be in East Asia.

I don't know too much about the Confucian system in Korea except you always show respect to your government, teachers, parents, etc. Dishonor to you and your family or w/e if you don't. And Koreans and Chinese commit suicide when they've dishonored the family in the extreme case. I do know its pretty pervasive and a core part of society, culture, and way of thinking from top down.

Confucian system in Korea sure exists. But we have moved on from the past. We still try to show respect to teachers and parents, but government? Not really. Don't be mixed with North where there's absolutely no freedom at all. People in South bash government all they want and it's a lot worse than here in the US.

Which is why if Yuna and team are taking the heat in Korea, that would be the reason. NOBODY in Korea is bashing Orser. I doubt they would have EVEN if Orser had been 100% guilty from what I know of how strong that confucian concept is in Korea.

You are way over the top about this. Not true. Both Yuna and Brian are getting the heat right now for their messy break-up. Brian talking too much to the media is not well received.
 
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;)I should perhaps have chosen another word instead of disrespect, it's so loaded on so many levels.. But since I was trying to stand aside from the emotional aspect a bit ,I meant it in the sense of the accepted norms of professional courtesy..certainly by the standards we're used to in N/A ( or see as what we should all try to live up to in a professional agreement )..by those standards ,ATS treated Brian shabbily.
 
Just wondering - are there any other skaters who won the OGM and then fired their coach a few months later?

I don't mean if they announced their retirement or turned pro, but skaters who continued competing.
 
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I'm not sure if this will be interesting, but I thought that I could write my thoughts about this matter as a Yuna fan and to put here what I think based on my observations.

1) First of all this splitting are really shocking news for all Yuna's fans. We all know that Brian Orser not only was a great coach, but also had a very friendly and special relationship with her that helped her very much to become a "happy skater" we all know. We have respect towards him and we came to love him through Yuna. In Korea he was a star on his own, he published his book there and he is a honorary citizen of Seoul.
It would be surprisingly enough if they just announced their split and simply wish good luck to each other. But what was worse is the way how it was done. Cruel words towards each other, Brian's persistence with interviews and Yuna's mental state falling down... This was like a nightmare and a lot of people were extremely confused. It was impossible to say who was right or wrong, because we couldn't imagine Yuna without Brian and Brian without Yuna.

2) We don't know what is the cause for this split. Personally, I can't even imagine what was the cause. Some people recall the "Mao Asada" rumor back in May. But Yuna and Brian had such a good relationship, that even if he had agreed to coach Mao, I don't believe it would turn like this. That's my personal impression. And I still have it.

3) Some people would say, that "The dream team" never existed and how good was that relationship was exaggerated by the press. I would disagree with this. I do believe that Yuna and Brian had almost perfect relationship. There was just too many beautiful things between them to count. Said that, I don't mean that there wasn't a single problem between them during 4 years. Even the best teams have problems sometimes and, in fact, we knew that those problems existed, but apparently they were solved easily and weren't anything important. On the other hand, we don't know all the details, so obviously we don't know some things.

4) There are several theories about what could gone wrong. In my opinion no one of them is fully credible because we simply don't have enough information. Most likely, what happened was a series of unfortunate miscommunications which finally led to a problem that they couldn't solve. While talking about the cause, I would like to accentuate that they really had a very special relationship and you can see this by the strong sentiments they both expressed during those days. They were both personally offended and deeply hurt by the actions of each other. And the cause of their split can very big, or can be very little. You know, sometimes even the strong bounded families split up because of little, stupid causes. That could happen here as well. And as we don't form the part of that very special "Yuna team", it's possible that we could not understand this cause at all even if we would hear it.

5) The management of ATS was considered as horrible not only by casual skating fans, but by the wast majority of Yuna's fans as well. That was a known fact. A long time ago we had enough complains about Helen Choi, an infamous Yuna's PA and translator. Ask prettykeys if you don't believe me. I have no idea why they keep this woman around.

6) Brian's actions were way too cruel to Yuna. I don't think he planned this or made this on purpose in order to sabotage her show. I think he was really hurt and wasn't thinking what he was doing. While it's OK to express your sentiments, he made a lot of ugly remarks and accusations and kept doing interviews even after it was clear that he hurts Yuna by doing so. His remarks about how much he gains were contradictory with his phrase that money doesn't matter to him. He said, that he cared about Yuna, but suggested her to leave the Cricket club and did nothing even when she was crying inside his Club. No matter how hurt he was and even if she really was that cold and disrespectful to him as he claims, it was not normal and, honestly, it looked like he went on a revenge against her. His remarks that this can a valuable experience for her are ridiculous. Yuna already had bad experiences with her previous coach and nothing she can learn from this, besides how cruelly stupid Brian Orser can be. Finally it was unethical to publish the private correspondence (even if it was one-sided) and disclose her music for the LP. This, in fact, hurts Brian in the long run more than Yuna. Skaters who will consider Brian as coach will have to think if he will do this for them as well.

7) Yuna herself didn't handle really well this matter. She went on attacking Brian using Twitter probably wanting hurt him as well. However we should consider her emotional state and that she, most likely, regretted doing so. According to Brian she herself was disrespectful to him, but she denied this, and as there is no third party to confirm or to deny anything, we have to give her benefit of the doubt.

8) ATS doesn't want to disclose the reason behind this and we can't demand for those reasons. We can say that Brian was like a part of family to Yuna and Yuna is known for not talking publicly about the personal matters. That's why there is very few information about her family. What really happened between them should stay between them. Consider this as completely private matter, and not business matter. This is something that they both agree about.

9) In spite of all this Brian Orser is a skating legend and, probably, good person. I believe that he was just too shocked and was unable to think clearly about what he is doing. He played a great role in Yuna's success being almost a father for her and really deeply invested in her.

10) We all know that Yuna is a good person and a great skater. She made Brian Orser into a coach and completed him as much as he completed her. I hope that this incident won't change your opinion about Yuna.

11) There is an implication that Yuna may be controlled by her mother and that all key decisions are done by her mother. I would like to say, that long ago, I, as a fan, was interesting in this. As I understand, Yuna's mother doesn't control her and, in fact, she is just primarily thinking about her daughter, therefore, she is not even pushing her to skate or to go to next Olympics, as Brian seemed to imply at one instance. In fact, Yuna is known to be pretty independent and even stubborn from the young age and sometimes this stubbornness caused arguments between her and her mother. So she is unlikely to be controlled.

12) This all was really hard for me and affected me very negatively. I can't express how I wish this would never happen. I'll try to respect Brian and I hope that eventually they'll come to some peace between them. What I'm sure about is that there won't be a better coach for Yuna than Brian was. Regardless if you believe Brian or not about ATS being so unprofessional to him, I have to remind that we don't know the truth and, most likely, both of them had a lot of errors and faults. I firmly believe that something wrong happened. So I hope that all of us will eventually desire them the best and try not to see them more negative than before. After all, both of them could be wrong or, maybe, both could be right in the case, that it was a purely miscommunication problem. Can you imagine that all happened because of translation problems and both of them acted logically and according to the information they had? I hope you will be open-minded and consider every possibility without making judgements upon something we don't have enough information about.

Thank you very much for reading.
 
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I can only imagine what it would have been like had Yuna NOT won the OGM...:eek:

8) ATS doesn't want to disclose the reason behind this and we can't demand for those reasons. We can say that Brian was like a part of family to Yuna and Yuna is known for not talking publicly about the personal matters. That's why there is very few information about her family. What really happened between them should stay between them. Consider this as completely private matter, and not business matter. This is something that they both agree about.

Hell, they could have made something (convincing) up! Something that wouldn't actually backfire on them, that is. Just say something vague like "they didn't see eye to eye" or something. Before, I'd agree that ATS didn't need to say anything, but now that it has degenerated into this situation, it would be better if Yuna at least said something as to why she took her action, even if it's vague and PC. By saying nothing and then getting defensive, she's basically authenticating Brian's side of the story, intended or not.
 
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6) Brian's actions were way too cruel to Yuna. I don't think he planned this or made this on purpose in order to sabotage her show. I think he was really hurt and wasn't thinking what he was doing. h

7) Yuna herself didn't handle really well this matter. She went on attacking Brian using Twitter probably wanting hurt him as well. However we should consider her emotional state and that she, most likely, regretted doing so. According to Brian she herself was disrespectful to him, but she denied this, and as there is no third party to confirm or to deny anything, we have to give her benefit of the doubt.

But why should the benefit of the doubt be given only to Yuna? Clearly, both sides are at fault here.
 
R.D.
Hell, they could have made something (convincing) up! Something that wouldn't actually backfire on them, that is. Just say something vague like "they didn't see eye to eye" or something. Before, I'd agree that ATS didn't need to say anything, but now that it has degenerated into this situation, it would be better if Yuna at least said something as to why she took her action, even if it's vague and PC. By saying nothing and then getting defensive, she's basically authenticating Brian's side of the story.
They did say something vague, so vague, that it didn't help. But I agree with you that they were unprofessional. Their management simply don't know how the handle the situation.
I disagree with you, that she is authenticating Brian's story. She says it's not true. I understand that not saying her complete version doesn't help her, but again, it's a private matter. We should not see this as something bigger than that. It seems logical to present her version, but this is not a gossip program and she doesn't have to tell us anything. I'm sure she understands that this doesn't help her, she acknowledges it in her letter.

chloepoco
But why should the benefit of the doubt be given only to Yuna? Clearly, both sides are at fault here.
I don't say that it should be given only to Yuna.
 
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