Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[MrBerkeley]

You know, as emotional as this has been / is for Brian and Yuna...I think we're all getting totally caught up in that aspect and forgetting that ATS's tactics ( I'm not so sure it's all inexperience or stupidity ) have really messed with Brian's professional life and income for this season. :scowl:

By leaving things ambiguous for as long as they did , they made it less and less likely that Brian would be able to fill the gap left in his schedule when Yuna withdrew from the GP . The closer we come to the beginning of the season, the more likely students have already made their plans. Then, did ATS mean to leave it ambiguous at the Aug.2 meeting, trusting that Brian would sill just wait ,and therefore still have some availability when World's is a couple of months away ( if Yuna really does compete ).. Since he took it as a final decision and eventually made the announcement , they pull Min Jeung as well , which I'm sure they knew he could have predicted, if he didn't play along. So he loses the income from 2 students for this season..And people are thinking Brian's vindictive? He must have been spitting nails!
yet he's remained positive in his comments about Yuna herself...and when he referred to her protecting her Mum he even said he found that noble in her.

I'm glad he's speaking through his agent now...maybe this will die down.But considering the way his livelihood as well as his emotions have been tampered with ,I'm not surprised things got a bit out of control.:sheesh:

I don't think he's ever going to be upset about income. Doesn't seem like a guy that cared much about income and cared more about relationships and cherished friendships.

Given his low charge/ hour, I'd probably say that regardless of whether Yuna (edit: retired/ left) or stayed, he would probably have not taken on a major student and would have ALWAYS taken Yuna back.

Inexperience it... is... (to speak like Yoda)

 

[MrBerkeley]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/olymp...k-adds-sour-note-to-figure-skating-soap-opera

New article. Verifies why the leak was important. Reiterates it was a good thing Orser went silent. Slams ATS. Says maybe cultural insult started it? Puts both Yuna and Orser in a good light (thumbs up). And says truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Points to Frank Carroll Michelle Kwan split. Sheesh. (Isn't MK skating with YK in October in LA? Hope old scars don't sting)

 

[colleen o'neill]

Oh ,I think there's inexperience there ,alright..but there was definitely an attempt to play hardball , as well. And while Brian's main motivation for coaching Yuna was obviously not the money..It can't sit well with anyone when someone is effectively limiting your other income by their actions, ( not to mention other talent you may want to work with , at a time when you're in demand ). No, I'm sure you'd rather be sitting around twiddling your thumbs during the blank spaces in your schedule...gives you all the more opportunity to reflect on how hurt you are..

 

[Basics]

Oh for the love of... People are being way too overdramatic about all of this. Look at Orser's quotes... they are all 95% about how great Yuna is, and 4.5% giving details and explaining things he is asked about. 0.5% are kind of, a little negative (about how the decision was made or Yuna's role in it or whatever). But he is overwhelmingly positive and kind about Yuna (read his actual, raw quotes, not the press spin on his quotes).

Like the current drama about him revealing her program. What he said was "her program is great, it's amazing, she's great" and then he mentioned to the music. Big wup. If you look at Adam Rippon's blog, he talks about his fall program in great detail. Yuna is not competing in the Grand Prix this fall. Anyone going to the Cricket Club can hear her music being played. It is not a state secret. Yes, he broke protocol (bad Brian), but this was certainly no "betrayal" and will not hurt Yuna competitively.

The real bad guys in this are ATS (or at least dumb guys), who are clearly one of the worst management companies ever. The point of a management company is not to win the PR war ... the point is to not have the PR war in the first place. This was completely and totally avoidable if they had the least bit of sense. If you can read Korean, you can see Yuna is getting killed on the Korean bulletin boards. She really has a big PR problem in Korea, thanks to 2-3 years of mismanagement.

I read Korean but I don't know what you are talking about. If you are really interested, go to figure skating bulletin boards not some random portal sites. They are full of trolls.

You need to be careful when writing things like that.

 

[samsarah]

What a great post! Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

I agree with your observations of ATS - they have done nothing to help this situation. How can they not even employ a skilled translator to give interviews?? This boggles my mind.



So what is the worst thing that Brian said? That Yuna seemed to be confused about the situation and was in tears one day? Why is that so bad? To me that does not come across as vengeful - at all. Then he was saying how absolutely wonderful her new long program is - and the music slipped out. Considering she will only compete with this program one time this season (maybe none at all) I don't see how this is such a devastating incident. It was a slip.

As for unstable emotions - Brian has been through much worse in his life; the 1988 Olympics, his mother's death and it being publicly reported that he was gay (he was not the one to announce this). In this situation, do you know what Brian was most worried about and scared of? Fathers not putting their sons in figure skating for fear that it would turn them gay. That gives you an idea of how much he cares about his sport and others. The breakup is simply a little bump in his life.

As for giving interviews to "every Korean media outlet" he probably just wanted to get them over with. He of all people understands how the Korean media is, and he didn't want to be dealing with them all season long.

If I made you think that I was accusing Brian in any way, it was my bad. I was merely trying to reason with myself why he would have started, and fueled this media war against his dear student Yuna. It does not make sense if he wishes her well, and hopes her to be fine, as he repeatedly says in his interviews with the media.

I second your opinion that Brian of all person understands the Korean media. So my question begins, couldn’t he have done better than going public with these medias? Before he decided to burn the bridge, he could have considered the impact of his actions on the other party (more so, because this was Yuna, his beloved former student)

In my perception, the damage Yuna received by Brian’s accusation (not to mention the immense emotional distress it may have caused her, watching her family suffering because of this), is out of proportion, and my heart goes out for both Yuna and Brian.

Also in my mind, Brian could have reasonably foreseen such consequences. But he must have completely stopped caring about her after the split. To him, I can see getting his own justice was more important than his relationship with Yuna. I would consider this kind of behavior vengeful if it was anyone else but Brian. But as everybody knows, he is a decent person. Possibly Brian had no clue that Yuna will be attacked so badly due to his comments on the media.

As for this being a small bump in Brian’s career, I do sincerely hope this to be.  It will be such a big loss if we, figure skating fans, loses such a great coach as Brian. Just imagine all the champions and Olympic medalists who would blossom under his care and training. We will see in the coming years the legions of great skaters Brian coaches. Yet, in order to do that, Brian would have to learn to handle his emotions better, and treat his athletes better when they leave him. Publicly accusing one’s parent for being disrespectful was below his class, and unprofessional. Thankfully Brian already knows this by now, and that is the reason why he finally stopped talking.

 

[colleen o'neill]

:disapp: Except when that parent is their management , and that management is treating you with disrespect by any normal N/A standards, I think anyone might feel they have to draw a line in the sand.

Should anyone allow themselves to be walked on , to protect the reputation of the one doing the walking in the press half a world away ? Even if you care greatly for that person's daughter, doesn't there come a time when enough is enough ?

 

[margiemo]

I believe Brian has always been a great ambassador for figure skating.He coached Yuna and put his heart and soul into making her the best she could be....olympic gold medal.With all the media bashing Brian had to defend himself.Yuna seems like a genuine person who probably was caught in the middle of it all.Hopefully all this will settle down by the start of the skating season especially the skaters at the Cricket Club.

 

[MrBerkeley]

Oh ,I think there's inexperience there ,alright..but there was definitely an attempt to play hardball , as well. And while Brian's main motivation for coaching Yuna was obviously not the money..It can't sit well with anyone when someone is effectively limiting your other income by their actions, ( not to mention other talent you may want to work with , at a time when you're in demand ). No, I'm sure you'd rather be sitting around twiddling your thumbs during the blank spaces in your schedule...gives you all the more opportunity to reflect on how hurt you are..

Brian said himself he didn't schedule Yuna for summer or fall in his time slot because Yuna's mother told him not to. I hardly think the wait for Yuna affected his ability to take on new skaters or money or left him with empty time for the twiddling of thumbs.

 

[R.D.]

Brian said himself he didn't schedule Yuna for summer or fall in his time slot because Yuna's mother told him not to. I hardly think the wait for Yuna affected his ability to take on new skaters or money or left him with empty time for the twiddling of thumbs.

...and perhaps that meant that they technically let him go at that point without specifically telling him so (that's the impression I'm getting)

 

[Mathman]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/olymp...k-adds-sour-note-to-figure-skating-soap-opera

New article. Verifies why the leak was important.

Finally, an attempt at a sensible answer to this question. It was part of ATS' marketing plan.

Giving out this kind of information without permission is seen as high treason in the sport, particularly in the Kim camp. They preciously guard such nuggets as part of their marketing plan, keeping a South Korean public which reveres the skater in suspense before unveiling them at just the right moment.

I still think its silly. No one is going to buy more or fewer tickets to Yu-na's show because Brian did or did not splill the beans. But if ATS thinks a suspensful build-up to the announcement means more money in the till, I guess they know their business. (shrug)

Also:

Wilson declined an interview Thursday, but in the statement released by AT Sports, the agency started by Kim’s mother Park Mee-hee, Wilson was said to be in “shock and bewilderment at the news.”

Did Wilson express "shock and bewilderment" anywhere else besides in the statement put forward by ATS?

 

[bekalc]

I still think its silly. No one is going to buy more or fewer tickets to Yu-na's show because Brian did or did not splill the beans. But if ATS thinks a suspensful build-up to the announcement means more money in the till, I guess they know their business

Well the thing is that the reveal of her programs was always a big deal. They'd literally have news reporters it seems come in and show clips of her program, and have David and Brian talk about the program. It may seem silly to you are me, but Yu-na is BIG news in Korea, and so finding out what her new programs are is big news. And if you can promise certain media organizations "the scoop" to promote said big news, it helps you in a variety of ways. And nobody knows all of this better than Brian.

 

[Mathman]

Well the thing is that the reveal of her programs was always a big deal. They'd literally have news reporters it seems come in and show clips of her program, and have David and Brian talk about the program. It may seem silly to you are me, but Yu-na is BIG news in Korea, and so finding out what her new programs are is big news. And if you can promise certain media organizations "the scoop" to promote said big news, it helps you in a variety of ways....

Thank you. This is starting to make $ense now.

 

[MrBerkeley]

:disapp: Except when that parent is their management , and that management is treating you with disrespect by any normal N/A standards, I think anyone might feel they have to draw a line in the sand.

Should anyone allow themselves to be walked on , to protect the reputation of the one doing the walking in the press half a world away ? Even if you care greatly for that person's daughter, doesn't there come a time when enough is enough ?

Normal North American standards? Respect?

Sorry to be cynical but people use the word disrespected when it suits their purpose. Few people follow it and none follow it perfectly. (Maybe in Canada, I don't know. I've only got the U.S. to go by but I doubt its much different).

Frankly from what I know of Korea & their Confucian honor system where younger people speak with deference to older people, teachers, government, etc. I'd say if its disrespectful in N/A its MOST LIKELY disrespectful in Korea.

Saying ignoring someone is disrespectful is entirely accurate but if someone keeps hurting you/ you feel neglected/ you feel angry/ etc etc you're going to ignore them. I don't think anyone's debating the lack of communication to Brian Orser was disrespectful. It WAS.

(1) caused (2) caused (3) caused (4). Yes you can say (3) was disrespectful but you can't draw a box around (3) and (4) because you like it and ignore (1) and (2). You need to know (1) and (2) and frankly you won't be able to because neither Yuna or Orser will talk about it anymore :thumbsup: (although if anything comes out I'll read it 'cause I'm a hypocrite and I'm bored and I'm giving all those media sites hits... save me.

I dislike to use the word disrespect in an argument because going down that road goes to when I was born.

 

[R.D.]

One now wonders whether she will get another coach or pull a Kwan and have Mom run the whole show...

 

[MrBerkeley]

...and perhaps that meant that they technically let him go at that point without specifically telling him so (that's the impression I'm getting)

Maybe. Since her plans to return to amateur skating weren't in stone yet and she was unsure, especially if she was feeling uncomfortable with Orser, thats sort of like an I need a break rather than a permanent firing. Yeah it sucks from Orser's point of view. But I don't think anyone considers the early summer statement a firing (not even Orser). Aug 2nd though. That's a different story.

It might be backwards actually. Also whats the deal with the mention of "Last friday was finalized?" Typo? Meant Thursday's meeting with Yuna?

 

[MrBerkeley]

Thank you. This is starting to make $ense now.

Yeah I didn't know that either. Interesting story about the media broadcasts getting the first scoop. That IS correct? Obviously not likely to be a link to such a statement.

 

[prettykeys]

Normal North American standards? Respect?

Sorry to be cynical but people use the word disrespected when it suits their purpose. Few people follow it and none follow it perfectly. (Maybe in Canada, I don't know. I've only got the U.S. to go by but I doubt its much different).

Frankly from what I know of Korea & their Confucian honor system where younger people speak with deference to older people, teachers, government, etc. I'd say if its disrespectful in N/A its MOST LIKELY disrespectful in Korea.

Perhaps, but there might be some norms of Korean culture which would be considered disrespectful in North America, I think, such as silent avoidance in the face of potential conflict...?

(By the way, I despise the Confucian honour system.)

 

[MrBerkeley]

One now wonders whether she will get another coach or pull a Kwan and have Mom run the whole show...

I doubt she'll do anything in the meantime. I don't think she was emotionally prepared to switch coaches. This is her senior circuit coach. Who she got an OGM with. It'll be hard to move on.

 

[MrBerkeley]

Perhaps, but there might be some norms of Korean culture which would be considered disrespectful in North America, I think, such as silent avoidance in the face of potential conflict...?

(By the way, I despise the Confucian honour system.)

Lol. I don't think silent avoidance in the face of potential conflict is respectful in Korea either. Who knows. Can someone verify this? I would think ignoring someone coming off as negligent or insulting is universal.

I don't know too much about the Confucian system in Korea except you always show respect to your government, teachers, parents, etc. Dishonor to you and your family or w/e if you don't. And Koreans and Chinese commit suicide when they've dishonored the family in the extreme case. I do know its pretty pervasive and a core part of society, culture, and way of thinking from top down.

Which is why if Yuna and team are taking the heat in Korea, that would be the reason. NOBODY in Korea is bashing Orser. I doubt they would have EVEN if Orser had been 100% guilty from what I know of how strong that confucian concept is in Korea.

 

[janetfan]

Finally, an attempt at a sensible answer to this question. It was part of ATS' marketing plan.

Did Wilson express "shock and bewilderment" anywhere else besides in the statement put forward by ATS?

I think we only have AT Skates word on this. Wilson, to his credit is keeping quiet about this. He is quoted once by ATS but hardly sounds hysterical.

I do think it was a mistake for Brian to mention the music and I think Yuna's choice this year did have a special significance to her Korean fans and even the Korean nation. Many have been hoping Yuna would skate to this for years now and the announcement and presentation would have been a big deal.

I am not Korean but happen to love Arirang and despite this mess I do look forward to seeing Yuna skate to it sometime later this season