How strict are judges in lower level events?

[gkelly]

Jill Trenary used to put her flip in that part of the rink during practices, and during the actual competition, she would swap the flip for a toe loop, and some judges never knew the difference.

blue dog, that is absolutely true about Jill & the judges-she did it at US Nationals in Baltimore. I always thought it was rather dishonest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9H766py_BQ

I wasn't there to see practices, but I don't see where the dishonesty would be. She did a triple flip from an outside three turn at one end of the rink. Then she did a triple toe from a split jump and inside three at the other end. Much later in the program, she did a double toe from an inside three at the same end where she did the triple earlier but without the split jump.

I don't see how the judges would have been likely to mistake either the triple or the double toe for a flip.

If the flip was at the far end of the rink from the judges, they may have given her benefit of the doubt on the cleanness of the landing, since there was no instant replay.


Or do you mean she had been practicing triple flip in the short program and substituted a triple toe for that in the competition? Even so, if she used the inside three entry it's not likely a judge would have confused it for a flip.

 

[Blades of Passion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9H766py_BQ

But she did a 3Flip at the beginning of the program. Did she practice two 3Flip's in her program during practice?

 

[ivy]

Thanks so much for the interesting conversation. I will check out the Novice level score sheets from this years Nat'ls. I'm glad to know they are being held to a strict technical standard and not just patted on the head and told they are sweet and spunky. I grew up riding horses and competing in dressage, where every move in a program is scored, plus general scores for your riding ability, the horse's carriage etc, so COP seems pretty familiar to me. And in dressage there was definitely the idea that you pretty much had to perfect a level before you got to move up to the next - ie no showing any triples until all your doubles were solid and correct. A big difference is every horse and rider competed off the same test and you couldn't just drop in a fancier element to get extra points

 

[gkelly]

Thanks so much for the interesting conversation. I will check out the Novice level score sheets from this years Nat'ls.

Check out the score sheets from regionals and sectionals too, if you want to know what makes the ones who get to Nationals special.

 

[doubleflutz]

And in dressage there was definitely the idea that you pretty much had to perfect a level before you got to move up to the next - ie no showing any triples until all your doubles were solid and correct.

In skating in the US, it's almost the opposite. Kids often have skills much higher than what they've been required to show in tests, but they're able to compete them in competitions that are ostensibly for their current test level, with not much of a limit on what they can do.

It doesn't lead to perfection of the things that, say, a Novice trying to work his way up to Junior is supposed to be working on, it just means that a boy who really does skate at the Novice level has to compete against Nathan Chen. Sometimes I think it really de-incentivizes patience with the whole process. Kids shouldn't have to choose between testing up to what they're capable of and being able to compete.

I'll always love Michelle sneaking behind the backs of her dad and Frank Carroll to take the Senior test. Shows what a great competitor she really is.