An accomplished skater's superb technique won't rub off on the less accomplished skater with substandard technique that's watching her.
What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?
- Thread starter Sylvia
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An accomplished skater's superb technique won't rub off on the less accomplished skater with substandard technique that's watching her.
Maybe not, but there's so much Caroline could learn just by being on the same ice every day as Yu-Na. I'm quite happy about this actually. If Oppegard is "Yu-Na worthy," so to speak, he's got to know what he's doing. It makes sense since Artesia was Caroline's original rink anyway. I wonder where he was while Caroline was with Mingzhu Li at Artesia..
Like what?
What Caroline needs is a strong technical coach that will rework her jumps and her stroking. Peter Oppegard isn't exactly known for being a good technical coach. Yu-Na and Caroline's needs at this point in time are vastly different.
Out of all of Caroline's coaches, Gambill's the one who's managed to fix her mule kick at least somewhat, so I am surprised by this change.
Like exposing her shortcomings. Maybe at Gambill's rink there aren't high level training mates to inspire her to aspire to something better. Doesn't Gambill have mostly younger, more junior skaters? Maybe it's easier to become complacent in such surroundings, when all the daily feedback you get by watching others is that you are already better than them all.
Still, she did make some progress under Gambill. I think by now, she should be aware of her shortcomings. The environment is important but the coach is more important. I'm just not sure if Peter is very good at the technical aspects. Being Yuna's coach doesn't really say anything since she is already good technically. It's all about skill maintenance now. But Caroline needs a total revamp and I'm not sure if Peter has enough time to dedicate to her considering his star student.
I remember reading that it was Kathy Casey who revamped Caroline's jump technique before she started working with Gambill. This was a while ago, so it's hard to back and verify.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
I am quite surprised by this sudden move. I wonder when exactly she changed coaches.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
I'm surprised actually having read her interview at one of competition of GPS. She seems waiting for herself getting used to new,better jump/skating tech.
BTW,If her new coach is Peter, does she have part-time coaches? I often think she needs experts like she did at junior level.
BTW,If her new coach is Peter, does she have part-time coaches? I often think she needs experts like she did at junior level.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
oh dear oh dear
I hope this ends well for Caroline. Something about all this seems off.
I hope this ends well for Caroline. Something about all this seems off.
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- Feb 17, 2007
I'm still not totally sure it's true. There hasn't been a news report.
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- Jan 23, 2004
It does seem strange that there is no press about Caroline's coaching change. I wonder when her profile was
updated at Icenetwork. I suppose we will find out more the closer we get to Nationals.
updated at Icenetwork. I suppose we will find out more the closer we get to Nationals.
I feel like it was more that Caroline herself was ready to change her technique, not that Tammy Gambill fixed her mule kick. In other words, the improvement came under Gambill, but it was probably more the timing (after the Olympics) that allowed Caroline to fix the issue rather than the specific coach. I could be wrong though. I don't see anything exactly "weird" about this coaching change, I just hope Caroline can really settle down soon.
I must agree with the above posters comments re: being angry about who allowed Caroline to develop such poor technique. It didn't happen overnight. IMO, any coach worth their credentials should have never allowed her to continue to test up through the ranks untill she fixed such bad technique.
Correcting poor technique is hard but it can be done. Back in the stone ages when I was skating, I learned how to cheat my loop jump. My coach warned be about it and we worked on it but I'd say I was only technically correct about 1/2 the time. I remember fighting with my coach about continuing to test up and continuing to be "allowed" to train doubles, then triples when my technique on the loop was so bad. I know I wore her down but she finally stood up to me and flat out told me she would refuse to continue to coach me if I was not going to learn proper technique. She basically said that I was willing to make a good-faith effort to learn proper technique, she would stay on as my coach but if I was going to deliberatly ignore her coahing advice, she would not have her reputation ruined by a student who refused to learn proper technique. And this was back when coaches had to sign the forms to take tests and enter events! To make matters worse, she was widly considered to be the best coach in the state at the time (Alaska - and you can bet there were not a lot of coaches to choose from at that time). Guess who was forced to go from training triple jumps to spending most of my practice time learning how to do a simple single loop jump.
Correcting poor technique is hard but it can be done. Back in the stone ages when I was skating, I learned how to cheat my loop jump. My coach warned be about it and we worked on it but I'd say I was only technically correct about 1/2 the time. I remember fighting with my coach about continuing to test up and continuing to be "allowed" to train doubles, then triples when my technique on the loop was so bad. I know I wore her down but she finally stood up to me and flat out told me she would refuse to continue to coach me if I was not going to learn proper technique. She basically said that I was willing to make a good-faith effort to learn proper technique, she would stay on as my coach but if I was going to deliberatly ignore her coahing advice, she would not have her reputation ruined by a student who refused to learn proper technique. And this was back when coaches had to sign the forms to take tests and enter events! To make matters worse, she was widly considered to be the best coach in the state at the time (Alaska - and you can bet there were not a lot of coaches to choose from at that time). Guess who was forced to go from training triple jumps to spending most of my practice time learning how to do a simple single loop jump.
That's a wonderful story, Dwiggin3. I wish that all coaches had that much sense and integrity. If I remember correctly, I'm one of the earlier posters who expressed anger that coaches would allow any young skater to learn bad technique, especially a skater with such obvious talent as Caroline. (I feel the same way about Japanese coaches who allowed several of their best skaters to develop that awful leg wrap.) It's usually a slow-timed-release sacrifice of the skater's career, especially these days when judging includes an evaluation of the jump quality. (The one exception of a leg-wrap skater who reached the very top is that splendid exception to all known rules, Midori Ito.) I continue to hope that Caroline can correct her problems and make it back onto the podium. She's too fine a skater to lose.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
If the coaching change is true, consider that Gambill might have been the one that severed the relationship.
As for her technique problems, there have been articles in years past describing how around the Intermediate level, Caroline went coachless for a long time--maybe about a year. Not good--this is a critical level for starting the advanced jumps. I am baffled how in Southern California, her family could not find/settle on a coach during this period. For what happened after that, I actually put some blame on Mingzhu Li, who after the coachless period, inherited a flawed-technique skater but was unable to put her foot down and get Caroline to correct her issues. I have my suspicions on the family vs coach dynamics of how this all happened. But if I had been Li and after a year, could not get some significant technical progress out of my skater, I'd resign as coach and tell her to find someone who could help her. Caroline needed her butt kicked years ago and she's now paying the price.
As for her technique problems, there have been articles in years past describing how around the Intermediate level, Caroline went coachless for a long time--maybe about a year. Not good--this is a critical level for starting the advanced jumps. I am baffled how in Southern California, her family could not find/settle on a coach during this period. For what happened after that, I actually put some blame on Mingzhu Li, who after the coachless period, inherited a flawed-technique skater but was unable to put her foot down and get Caroline to correct her issues. I have my suspicions on the family vs coach dynamics of how this all happened. But if I had been Li and after a year, could not get some significant technical progress out of my skater, I'd resign as coach and tell her to find someone who could help her. Caroline needed her butt kicked years ago and she's now paying the price.
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I don't think that her problem with Tammy is related to not following her coach's guidance and doing as she is told. We can tell that she has been attempting to change her jump technique and it's obvious that she realizes that technique changes in general would only benefit her.
Her reason for switching could be due to feeling frustrated that she is not progressing fast enough. She may be impatient. Or here's something else that could have happened. She could have been practicing at the Artesia rink and had some pleasant and productive encounters with Peter and figured that he might turn out to be a good coach for her. But then again, I have no idea if coaches randomly help out skaters they happen to see practicing.
That's even worse. Fixing technique is such a long process that it requires patience.
There ya go.
You know, we could armchair-speculate this whole thing- it could be anything from wanting a quick fix to something tragic happening to her current coach which forced the switch...no one knows except the insiders- and maybe even they don't know everything.
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- Oct 22, 2005
That could/would be considered solicitation by PSA rules, which is a BIG no-no. Typically, unless asked by the student or the student's coach, another coach will not provide advice.
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- Jan 23, 2009
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