ISU Where Will Worlds BE (formerly) JAPAN QUAKE FOR WORLDS

[Dodhiyel]

Voila! La Belle France has offered its 2012 Worlds to Japan, in a gracious act of solidarity. This is from the AP. as shown by Universal Sports on:

http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=526008.html#france+offers+2012+worlds+japan

That is just plain lovely. Vive la France!

 

[colleen o'neill]

Lovely ..except that in the idea he originally floated to the press and ISU the offer included bumping France's WC ahead to take over Canada's 2013 WC ( pre-Olympics ,when excitement is really starting to build) and to bump Canada's WC to 2014 ( post-Olympics , when retirements, burn -out etc. can make things far less lucrative)...To which idea, William Thompson of Canada's federation replied . "Nice try, Didier."

A gracious act of solidarity that would just happen to benefit the French federation..

 

[wallylutz]

Dear Didier, one of the masterminds behind the 2002 Salt Lake City scandal, is not in the charity business. Wait you see what he is really after. Anybody who believes his statement that "we all have a heart" really doesn't know the nature of this man.

 

[Dodhiyel]

Lovely ..except that in the idea he originally floated to the press and ISU the offer included bumping France's WC ahead to take over Canada's 2013 WC ( pre-Olympics ,when excitement is really starting to build) and to bump Canada's WC to 2014 ( post-Olympics , when retirements, burn -out etc. can make things far less lucrative)...To which idea, William Thompson of Canada's federation replied . "Nice try, Didier."

A gracious act of solidarity that would just happen to benefit the French federation..

Thank you for the analysis, Colleen. I didn't know about Gailhaguet's original suggestion, but perhaps it was not all about the money. At any rate, I fear that Japan might still be having problems in 2012, although I hope not.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Dodhiyel..I agree,I'm not sure 2012 would be enough time for Japan to prepare , all things considered. I noticed this morning ( I think on the BBC website ) that their recovery is estimated to cost in the vicinity of 25 trillion..would the JSF find sponsors as readily for 2012 as they did for 2011 ?
The WTT has been postponed for a year ,and will be held in Japan ; perhaps that will be enough to have on their plate ? I don't know...I think the ISU will want to compensate them however they can , but maybe it would be best to wait and see what they request, or bid for, when the dust has settled a bit.

 

[skfan]

I'm a little fuzzy on the details; maybe someone else will jump in with a more knowledgeable account. But I bellieve the situation was something like this.

Back in 1994 or so, when figure skating in the U.S. was at its peak of popularity because of the Tonya-Nancy main event, the USFSA signed a $20,000,000 contract with ABC televsion to broadcast figure skating events for a number of years. This contract was renewed a couple of times during the Michelle Kwan years that immediately followed. The ISU got a nice chunk of that. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that at this time something close to half of the ISU's total budget was underwritten by U.S. television deals. (Yesterday, the United States, today, Japan)

However, interest in figure skating in the U.S. declined in the 2000s, the contract between the USFSA and ABC TV dwindled, and finally ABC gave it up altogether. The USFSA was not able to get a real contract with any other network, but finally NBC and its affiliates stepped in and a deal was worked out as follows. NBC would not give USFS any money per se, but USFS could buy time and then sell advertising itself to pay the expenses and maybe make a little bit of profit if there is anything left over. USFS had to scramble even to keep their traditional sponsors in the fold. (The details are available if you search the USFSA website for their annual financial statements.)

Now I think the USFSA and the networks work together in some way to try to round up commercial sponsorships. But in any case, there is no big pot of gold to be shared between the USFSA and the ISU as there was fifteen years ago. Not even the attraction of the pre-Olympic world championship in 2009 in Los Angeles, and a men's star in Evan Lysacek, was enough to interest U.S. television networks is shelling out any cash to cover the event.



I think it was 2010 Skate America (i.e., the current 2010-2011 season) where things really came to a head and the ISU threatened to withhold money to the event organizers. I don't know how this was eventually resolved. I don't know what the television ratings are for Skate America. Let's just say it's not Two-and-a-half Men.



I don't know if the ISU would ever toss Skate America out of the Grand Prix. It would be fun to see what would happen if they did. Skate America was already a pretigious international event for a couple of decades before the Grand Prix came into existence and before anyone had heard of Ottavio Cinquanta. Maybe the USFSA would secede from the ISU and go its own way, with Skate America and U.S. Nationals the big whoops of the season.

Skate Germany just sort of faded away and the ISU was eager to replace it with Skate China, figuring that China is the wave of the future. Just think how much money the ISU could make if a substanntial part of the Chinese population suddenly took a interest in skating!



I belive that the ISU still makes money off selling the television feed to other countries besides the country where the event is held. (?) The U.S. is still rich. The ISU is probably hoping for better times in the future.

Thank you so much Mathman for taking the time to go into details here. I too remember Skate America before the Grand Prix.

I like the US secession idea US nationals should be the peak of the season LOL of course we'd have skaters defecting to other federations citing intolerable conditions at home, so that they can compete in the World Championships

Thank you for filling me in about the whole Skate Germany being dropped thing. I scrambled my brain trying to figure out which of the current GPs was the Skate Germany replacement, so it was China, eh? Maybe Speedy's dream of Chinese money will materialize--the Chinese men are making a move, right? ^_^ Well, at Jr. Worlds they were.

In your resilient skating universe (where the sport carries on despite an October Worlds), it's only a matter of time before skating's popularity recovers in the US, right? ^^

 

[seniorita]

Voila! La Belle France has offered its 2012 Worlds to Japan, in a gracious act of solidarity.

whats going on? Does it have to do with them not havin a venue yet? i d like to be a fly in Ciquantas shoulder now, why Worlds are movin all over?

 

[blue dog]

In your resilient skating universe (where the sport carries on despite an October Worlds), it's only a matter of time before skating's popularity recovers in the US, right? ^^

Soon! When Tonya Harding's son starts skating =P

I would pay money to watch her son and Nancy Kerrigan's youngest daughter become an ice dance team =P

 

[skfan]

Soon! When Tonya Harding's son starts skating =P

I would pay money to watch her son and Nancy Kerrigan's youngest daughter become an ice dance team =P

wow. i didn't know the son was a gillooly.

that's right. in my (delusional) universe the vile all came from gillooly. tonya has been restored to her original wholesome self pre-gillooly (after all she was one of MK's heroes). and nicole bobek is practically a church lady now

about your (truly outstanding) harding-kerrigan next generation idea. if ice dance is too close for comfort, how about co-ed synchro? and during the championships, the TV camera will pan to the mothers sitting side by side. perhaps they'll be interviewed together, with tight smiles?

hey, this is america. let's not forget what made the sport popular here ^___^

 

[Violet Bliss]

Soon! When Tonya Harding's son starts skating =P

I would pay money to watch her son and Nancy Kerrigan's youngest daughter become an ice dance team =P

And miss the opportunity to see the first 4A being landed in a competition? And a 4A/3T in the same program? No Ice Dance for the Little Gillooly!

After that Tonya will be the most sought after coach in the world. Moive stars will fight to play the part of the mother/coach in the Ice Prince movie.

 

[Tonichelle]

I would pay money to watch her son and Nancy Kerrigan's youngest daughter become an ice dance team =P

I would NOT want to be sitting in the parents section at THOSE dance competitions!

 

[blue dog]

And miss the opportunity to see the first 4A being landed in a competition? And a 4A/3T in the same program? No Ice Dance for the Little Gillooly!

After that Tonya will be the most sought after coach in the world. Moive stars will fight to play the part of the mother/coach in the Ice Prince movie.

I think Tonya will make an excellent mother/coach. All her life she has known what a BAD one can do to you =P

I would NOT want to be sitting in the parents section at THOSE dance competitions!

They might even be coached by the Petukhovs.

As for skating's return to popularity in the US, I believe it will happen, but it cannot be forced. Maybe we'll find that star in the next worlds?

 

[Serious Business]

In your resilient skating universe (where the sport carries on despite an October Worlds), it's only a matter of time before skating's popularity recovers in the US, right? ^^

There are lots of blame within skating for the decline of its popularity in the US: The botched negotiations to air figure skating on broadcast TV in the US (people can't be fans of what they can't see); the draconian restrictions on what shows eligible skaters can perform on (severely limiting their exposure in the US), and so on.

But in my opinion, there are larger cultural and political shifts going on that made the decline of FS in the US inevitable, and a tiny symptom of much larger going-ons. It started with the intertwined rise of Reaganism and the politicization of the Christian right at around the same time. This cataclysmic political bloc is by now entrenched in the US, and its core platforms include defunding public education and arts and a general distrust of academia and artists. These attitudes have left a mark on several generations of Americans now.

In this climate, figure skating suffers because it draws so much from European Classicism. With arts and music funding cut for schools, and PBS and NPR marginalized and defunded even as we type, where would kids get exposed to the classical music figure skating keeps using? Or ballet outside of a random psycho-sexual thriller that somehow became a hit? While neither classical music nor balletic forms are omnipresent in skating, they are at least ubiquitous. For a few generations of Americans now, that Stravinsky just sounds weird and the idea of working hard to strive for traditional aesthetic form is an entirely foreign and fruity concept.

It's not that there's no more art or appreciation for it in American society, that would be impossible for any human society. It is that public, non-profit art displays and education have been kicked, beaten, tied-up and shoved into a broom closet. So instead, American kids are exposed to art from the commercial sector. Art that's slick, packaged, doesn't tax attention spans whose chief aim is to sell things. Don't get me wrong, I love lots of commercial art from iPod designs to Beyonce's dancing. But that's a kind of artistic presentation that's a world away from the graceful, nuanced, subtle and traditional forms that permeate figure skating. It is entirely possible for figure skating to reinvent itself as a slick extreme sport to cash in on this myopic focus in the US, but why?

In Japan and parts of Europe where figure skating remains popular, both commercial and non-commercial art thrive side by side (less so for the non-com stuff, but at least it's not completely dead like it is in the US). And non-commercial art, and a basic appreciation for beauty and expertise is still part of the culture and education of those societies, unlike America. So to answer your question, figure skating's popularity will revive in the US when the country has a renaissance both culturally and ideologically. While that doesn't seem likely now, these shifts in cultural zeitgeists can happen faster than people think, and only in hindsight is it obvious. We're a bit overdue for a substantial backlash against the rise of the morons.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If these network deals are true, it says to me that US networks had the upper hand in negotiations, either because figure skating was so pathetic in rating that a network would broadcast it as a charity/goodwill or the network was a tough negotiator who snatched themselves a bargain/freebie. They probably tried to charge for the feed to the ISU! Conversely, USFSF was pretty powerless. That is a US problem but bad for figure skating as it is still a very desirable and important market. ISU may be caught between a rock and a hard place. Giving up US or hope for and work toward a revival or at least maintain the current level of interest?

If this rumour you are producing is correct, SO WHAT? Buisness is Buisness. I don't see any shortage of money from the other Big 5.

No doubt, TV whatchers want the whole kit and kaboodle to be free as they sit on by their TV sets and not contribute anything to the Sport. Well, as the saying goes: You buy cheap, you get cheap.

MM - To sell TV feed, whomever is in control, will ensure the market is ripe for many countries, It's a big undertaking to get permission from the Arena ($$$), and the cameramen don't do if for free. Do you think Universal Sport will do this, or will it just pay for someone else's feed?

 

[Mathman]

There are lots of blame within skating for the decline of its popularity in the US:...

I don’t think that political trends or cultural dumbing down is the primary factor in the declining interest in skating. I think it is more that – for whatever reason – we just don’t care so much about beauty contests as we used to. Little girls don’t like to dress up pretty so much as they did back then.

In the 1950s it was a huge deal to win the Miss America contest. Now, not so much. Why? I don’t know, but I don’t think it was because of Ronald Reagan and the religious right.

As for classical music, I think it is kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. Do people who like classical music go to figure skating competitions because they like the music? Or do people who like figure skating get an introduction to classical music as a side benefit to their enjoyment of skating?

When I was a kid, the only time I heard any classical music was on those old cartoons where Mickey Mouse would conduct an orchestra consisting of birds in the forest playing on little fiddles and tooting on whistles. I loved that music. I still do, and now I go to all the classical music concerts I can find.

The Detroit Symphony Orchestra just canceled its season due to lack of funds to pay the players. Where are Buggs Bunny and Peggy Fleming when you need them?

 

[Dodhiyel]

whats going on? Does it have to do with them not havin a venue yet? i d like to be a fly in Ciquantas shoulder now, why Worlds are movin all over?

Seniorita, I just took another look around, and found some newer news. Universal Sports is carrying an article based on Phil Hersh's report in the Chicago Tribune. The word is that the members of the ISU council have received their voting ballots, and Cinquanta says he expects to announce the decision on Friday.

Japan had to withdraw as hosts for Worlds, but six other countries have offered to host it a little later this Spring. We'll know soon where Worlds is going to be, after the ISU council finishes voting.

Here's the URL:

http://www.universalsports.com/news...ml#report+worlds+announcement+expected+friday

 

[Serious Business]

I don’t think that political trends or cultural dumbing down is the primary factor in the declining interest in skating. I think it is more that – for whatever reason – we just don’t care so much about beauty contests as we used to. Little girls don’t like to dress up pretty so much as they did back then.

In the 1950s it was a huge deal to win the Miss America contest. Now, not so much. Why? I don’t know, but I don’t think it was because of Ronald Reagan and the religious right.

First and foremost, I don't think most people see figure skating like they see beauty pageants. I would reckon anybody who thinks figure skating is a beauty pageant would never be into figure skating much to begin with. Not that figure skating doesn't have beautiful chicks, but overall, due to the fact that looks matter a whole lot more to the ranking of beauty pageants, figure skating really doesn't measure up in the looks department. Ladies figure skating, then as now, features a lot of fresh faced teenaged girls, who can be graceful and all that on ice, but off ice they are still gawky teenagers with awful haircuts that even a county level pre-teen beauty queen would spit on. So for those folks who thinks figure skating is a beauty pageant, well figure skating would be a beauty pageant with less comely women, less close ups and beauty shots, a lot of tedious twirling and results based on rules and considerations for minutiae they don't care about. On the other hand, what is beautiful about skating is the grace and athleticism and the movement itself, which is not really found much at all in beauty pageants. Without pondering the merits of competing in beauty pageants vs. figure skating, I'd say that for the passive viewer, the two things reward totally different interests and emphasis.

Second, girls never stopped dressing up. They still do it rampantly and rabidly. Women's fashion and makeup are bigger industries than ever. I don't know where you get the idea that younger girls no longer dress up. I would rather that was the case even if it meant diminishing interests in skating! The decline of interest in beauty pageants in the US isn't due to the fact that we as a society no longer emphasize and reward superficial looks in women. I'm sure there are other reasons for the decline of beauty pageants in the US, but as I'm not that versed in beauty pageants, and find the whole thing a bit too creepy to study up on, I won't speculate on them. Also there's actually a concerted effort among American right wingers to dominate the beauty pageant circuit for quite a number of years now, so it definitely would not tie into my theory on skating.

So I would say the decline of figure skating and beauty pageants in the US aren't correlated. And if the idea is that we as a society stopped wanting to see women and girls glamorized and prettied up, a whole lot of industries would be dead before figure skating.

People are into competitions where they can understand, appreciate and sometimes even agree with the results. Otherwise, it's not very satisfying to watch if the competitor(s) whom one feels should be ahead is constantly behind. And to truly appreciate the ranking in skating, the viewer has to have an appreciation and respect not just for the same bit of athleticism, the higher stronger faster found in most other sports, but all those extra things like musicality, movement quality and form. And as skating still draws much from the well of classicism, it's hard for what is now a few generations of American kids who have been deprived of classicism in their education to appreciate it. You can't feel the poetry if you aren't familiar with the language. And I maintain that's the biggest barrier to skating's popularity in the US right now.

 

[janetfan]

I don’t think that political trends or cultural dumbing down is the primary factor in the declining interest in skating. I think it is more that – for whatever reason – we just don’t care so much about beauty contests as we used to. Little girls don’t like to dress up pretty so much as they did back then.

In the 1950s it was a huge deal to win the Miss America contest. Now, not so much. Why? I don’t know, but I don’t think it was because of Ronald Reagan and the religious right.

As for classical music, I think it is kind of a chicken and egg sort of thing. Do people who like classical music go to figure skating competitions because they like the music? Or do people who like figure skating get an introduction to classical music as a side benefit to their enjoyment of skating?

When I was a kid, the only time I heard any classical music was on those old cartoons where Mickey Mouse would conduct an orchestra consisting of birds in the forest playing on little fiddles and tooting on whistles. I loved that music. I still do, and now I go to all the classical music concerts I can find.

The Detroit Symphony Orchestra just canceled its season due to lack of funds to pay the players. Where are Buggs Bunny and Peggy Fleming when you need them?

I have friends and family members that go nuts when I tell them I got up at 3:00am to watch a skating competition on the computer.
They think I am the dumb one when I am tired the next day and they are full of pep.

I may like skating but I believe 99% of Americans are not feeling culturally inferior because their interest in skating has dwindled.

It was never that big in the first place and although Michelle has her fans I can tell you beyond any doubt Dorothy was bigger in her day. Maybe 10 times bigger with the American public. That is not important and as mathman pointed out beauty pageants have seen their better days in USA.

Dorothy was part beauty queen and part girl next door. She did specials on ABC and not on Saturday afternoon but in prime time. She did more commercials in USA than any skater before or after her. But with all of her success Dorothy's role was not to culturally enrich Americans.

Are Korea and Japan culturally enriched because of Yuna and Mao? Perhaps, but that is Korea and Japan.

In USA Michelle was never serving the role to culturally enrich her country. Rather, she made those who follow skating, both casual and more serious fans proud of their country by her many championships and particularly by the way she handled herself in adversity.

The brief span in the 90's that was fueled by a scandal and was covered widely and mocked mercilessly is only a small chapter in USA skating history.

To judge the success or lack of acceptance of skating in 2011 based on the Harding/Kerrigan scandal is not realistic. To think the scandal and skating boom that followed it culturally enriched Americans is quite a stretch IMO. If anything many of the cheesey things we saw in that period may have dumbed down skating and changed the American perception of skating forever.

On the whole figure skating is a quaint niche sport in USA struggling to keep up with the times.

 

[pista04]

On the whole figure skating is a quaint niche sport in USA struggling to keep up with the times

I think the key reason lies just there....times. Times have changed. Culture changes, society changes....and Figure Skating is struggling to change with it. As a very knowledgable Pageant fan, one thing is true: Miss America is not what it was....because Miss USA has become that.

Trying to remain relevant, Miss America has been pushed off of main networks for the majority of the past 5 years (returning this year....) and Miss USA has taken over. Miss USA is sexier, more understandable, and leads to something bigger: Miss Universe, which, (owned by the same organization, Miss Univ. Organization, owned by Trump) has inspired millions around the world. Why? In part, starting in the 1990s when Trump took over, it has revolutionized what a beauty pageant is....unlike Figure Skating.

Figure Skating is changing....but with Carmens, Romeo and Juliet and other classics, it is harder to take a leap forward when these songs are overplayed. In my opinion, Figure Skating needs to stop catering to it's classic, older, traditional audience and begin truly appealing to the youth of america.....imagine how much publicity a figure skating show with music from Lady Gaga would have? Belbin/Agosto had that experimental Hip-Hop routine as an exhib. a couple years ago.

Davis/White have been and are my favorite dance team of all time, but even I will admit that I wish they took a more "modern" approach to music and choreography....give them some strong Vitamin String Quartet, or give them a blockbuster score (ex. Gattaca, Transformers) to skate to on an MTV special and see what happens.

Figure Skating needs to take a good step forward for it to reemerge in the US, in my opinion.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Love Gattaca, but consider that Nyman score basically unskateable. Wonderful music, though.

I'm really not for the Idolization of the sport. pista, I quite agree that culture/society have changed. But are all those changes good? If not, what does the sport gain/lose by trying to appeal to those audiences (here's where you get to call me an elitist snob).