ISU Where Will Worlds BE (formerly) JAPAN QUAKE FOR WORLDS

[janetfan]

So many interesting thoughts all which make valid points. gkelly's post made alot of sense to me.

Going back in time we should remember the school figures. I think even Pogue might have to agree there was an art in tracing good figures. Atleast as much as a sprinter running down the track in a straight line.

Back in the day a few hundred fans might gather to watch the sport of figure skating. TV came along and changed that as ISU saw the potential of the more expressive free skating. Rules were changed and then changed again.

Scandal brought on an overhaul of the scoring system back in 2002. ISU and it's leader said a stated goal was to make skating more of a sport.
What did he think it was before?

I have to agree with Joe about the lack of distinction between the SP and LP in the current IJS.
Sometimes I wonder if 6.0 was more of a sport when figures, a technical program and a less restricted free skate were used to determine the best skater.

 

[Olympia]

You mean like with the first note of the bass line?

(Although...the first few bars of the overture to the Marriage of Figaro...)

And the first few notes of Schumann's "Spring" Symphony!

I actually find most of my emotional release and repair in classical music. But I completely agree with Grant about songs like "My Girl." I immediately feel like dancing when I hear this intro, and it does make me feel very good, very fast--about four notes, and I'm cheerful. I don't know if I can divide music into a kind that elevates me intellectually and a kind that reaches my feelings instantly. But then, my preferred era of classical is the romantic era, which may explain things in two ways: one, it is by nature emotional, and two, a lot of it is based on folk tunes--Dvorak, for instance. So there's a "pop music" element to some of it, when you come right down to it.

 

[janetfan]

And the first few notes of Schumann's "Spring" Symphony!

I actually find most of my emotional release and repair in classical music. But I completely agree with Grant about songs like "My Girl." I immediately feel like dancing when I hear this intro, and it does make me feel very good, very fast--about four notes, and I'm cheerful. I don't know if I can divide music into a kind that elevates me intellectually and a kind that reaches my feelings instantly. But then, my preferred era of classical is the romantic era, which may explain things in two ways: one, it is by nature emotional, and two, a lot of it is based on folk tunes--Dvorak, for instance. So there's a "pop music" element to some of it, when you come right down to it.

Have the first few notes of any piece of music in any idiom ever demanded our attention as much as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cnv4G05vqY

 

[Mathman]

Like Gaia in her angry spite, this has given birth to that hundred-armed monster, Political Correctness, in whose suffocating embrace we now uncomfortably chafe.

Sentence construction: A+

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Have the first few notes of any piece of music in any idiom ever demanded our attention as much as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cnv4G05vqY

He wrote good music and like Wagner, impossible for anyone to skate to in its original form, be it Fuertwangler, Karajan or Levine.
I have never seen a skater rise beyond movie background music, and then, tear it down to 4 minutes.

I have tickets to Wagner's complete Ring cycle in 2012 (if I live that long, and Levine, too). If it comes at a time when World's FS Championships is on, you can bet on which one I will watch.

How did we get onto Music? Today's competitive skaters are more interested in Points than Music.

 

[janetfan]

How did we get onto Music? Today's competitive skaters are more interested in Points than Music.

I think it was something someone said back in post 695 that brought music into the thread.

"Get into the sport and get rid of the music which so few can follow and feel."

Others might disagree with that remark and at the least believe skaters follow and feel music in varying degrees based in part on their technique and natural musicality.

As we have seen skating's dramatic increase in popularity in Asia I wonder how much of it has to do with the appeal and universality of the music :think:

I prefer this view of music and art which seems more accepting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14iJzdPtWI&feature=related

His words at the end seem so relevant today and made me think of Japan.

I think the Japanese skaters at Worlds will be given a royal reception by the hosts and fans and we may see figure skating providing fans with yet another moment when skating transcends sport.

 

[seniorita]

Tickets for Worlds are estimated to cost according to European standards as Torino last year, from 10 EUR for earlier competitions to 120 EUR max for evening ones. as far asI remember last year the all evet ticket for front seats costed 400+ euros and you could watch the practices as well with it.
http://www.bfm.ru/articles/2011/03/26/moskvu-zhdet-lednikovyj-period.html#text
The link was posted at FSU

 

[dorispulaski]

Are you going?

If you do, senorita, I hope you will tell us about it after you come back!

 

[jenaj]

You're kidding, Math! It mentioned her most famous clients and DIDN'T LIST MICHELLE? That's like saying Givenchy dressed many notable women and leaving Audrey Hepburn off the list. Or saying that DaVinci's best-known paintings were the Madonna of the Rocks and Girl with a Ferret, and leaving off the Mona Lisa and the Last Supper. Maybe the article was written by a baseball fan.

Clearly our work here is not done, huh?

So true. Lori's main claim to fame as a choreographer is her work for Michelle.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Going back in time we should remember the school figures. I think even Pogue might have to agree there was an art in tracing good figures. Atleast as much as a sprinter running down the track in a straight line.

There was definitly a Test of Skill with school figures. I wouldn't call it an Art, although some skaters carried their bodies in a precise pleasant way. It definitely was a craft. It had some fandom, but it carried little weight for paying attendance, even in its later years, unfortunately. And very open to cheating judges.

I have to agree with Joe about the lack of distinction between the SP and LP in the current IJS.
Sometimes I wonder if 6.0 was more of a sport when figures, a technical program and a less restricted free skate were used to determine the best skater.

"And this championship we're going to use the 2Flip or the 3Flip." That choice is real sporty But the fans (including me, don't really get that). Fans want Artistry for the SP (and sometimes PC scores beat out the Tech scores) and I want a Test of Elements and a less restricted Free Skate which should give us some artistry and not just points.

Both the Elements Test and the Free Skate can be part of the CoP (without restrictions) but the CoP would need a good going over. And then for the moneywise people, would the Fans show up for the Elements Test? Of course Real Fans would, but how many are there? We don't really know that.

 

[seniorita]

Are you going?

If you do, senorita, I hope you will tell us about it after you come back!

If i went I would make a book of notes about it and post it here These Worlds are already so special for many reasons and Moscow must be wonderful in spring ! Unforunately it is Easter on 24th and I cant go neither probably watch them on tv, it is my parents 30th wedding anniversary that will celebrate on the countryside, if it was a week later I might have tried! I posted the tickets info for anyone who may be interested to go!

 

[Olympia]

If i went I would make a book of notes about it and post it here These Worlds are already so special for many reasons and Moscow must be wonderful in spring ! Unforunately it is Easter on 24th and I cant go neither probably watch them on tv, it is my parents 30th wedding anniversary that will celebrate on the countryside, if it was a week later I might have tried! I posted the tickets info for anyone who may be interested to go!

I'd say it's too bad you can't go, but what a wonderful reason to stay home. Congratulations to your parents. I'm sure there will be people going who can report to us, and there will doubtless be generous viewers who will post on YouTube.

This one will be amazing, whatever happens and whoever wins. And wherever and however we each get to view it, we fans will definitely share in the excitement.

 

[Mathman]

The short program

I don't know. To me, a separate technical elements contest would be like those slam dunk contests and three-point shooting contests that they have at basketball galas (not games), maybe together with a dribbling-through-an-obstacle-course race.

Or like a separate contest for pianists to demonstrate their scales and arpeggios. The contestants could show their digital dexterity by running through all the major and minor scales. But we (the audience) have a right to take that skill for granted. We want to see the finished product, with all of those virtuoso skills serving the performance.

I do not see any need for the short program to be any different from the long program. The first half of the game, then the second half, with a little breather in between to regroup. In a football game we do not require that the second half show different skills than the first half. We don't want the first half to be an exhibition of calisthenics, then play the real game in the second half.

A short program can be a little artistic gem. Followed by a somewhat longer artistic gem. Bond Girl followed by Gershwin. What's so bad about that?

 

[Robeye]

I don't know. To me, a separate technical elements contest would be like those slam dunk contests and three-point shooting contests that they have at basketball galas (not games), maybe together with a dribbling-through-an-obstacle-course race.

Or like a separate contest for pianists to demonstrate their scales and arpeggios. The contestants could show their digital dexterity by running through all the major and minor scales. But we (the audience) have a right to take that skill for granted. We want to see the finished product, with all of those virtuoso skills serving the performance.

I do not see any need for the short program to be any different from the long program. The first half of the game, then the second half, with a little breather in between to regroup. In a football game we do not require that the second half show different skills than the first half. We don't want the first half to be an exhibition of calisthenics, then play the real game in the second half.

A short program can be a little artistic gem. Followed by a somewhat longer artistic gem. Bond Girl followed by Gershwin. What's so bad about that?

Like the voice from the burning bush. Couldn't agree more.

(Is this my shortest post on record? )

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's amazing how some posters really are not interested in Sport, but get their Fix by watching Tricks against Background Music. Sorry boys, you will never win over Cirque du Soleil.

Just sit by your fireside bride and watch the high art of metal shoes brighten your evening. Good Night Irene. You've done your sport.

 

[Olympia]

I don't know. To me, a separate technical elements contest would be like those slam dunk contests and three-point shooting contests that they have at basketball galas (not games), maybe together with a dribbling-through-an-obstacle-course race.

Or like a separate contest for pianists to demonstrate their scales and arpeggios. The contestants could show their digital dexterity by running through all the major and minor scales. But we (the audience) have a right to take that skill for granted. We want to see the finished product, with all of those virtuoso skills serving the performance.

I do not see any need for the short program to be any different from the long program. The first half of the game, then the second half, with a little breather in between to regroup. In a football game we do not require that the second half show different skills than the first half. We don't want the first half to be an exhibition of calisthenics, then play the real game in the second half.

A short program can be a little artistic gem. Followed by a somewhat longer artistic gem. Bond Girl followed by Gershwin. What's so bad about that?

I'm with you, Math. I'm here for the music. Seriously, it's the amalgam of sport and art that makes skating so wonderful to me. The grace in skating is of an entirely different quality from the grace in a sport like half-pipe or the 110-meter hurdle. In addition to all that Mathman has brought up, here's another thought: what would be the reason to skate with graceful arm movements or extended limbs, or pointed toes, if there were no music and only the jumps, turns, and so on were being judged?

Not to take anything from Cirque du Soleil, but even drifting through the air on wires doesn't give the effect of glide that only skating can provide to dancers. The skater's movement across ice is what gives the flow from position to position. Even a ballet dancer in arabesque can move from one place to another just by hopping on the balancing foot. Compare that to the swoop across the ice of the best spirals. Skating deserves its description as an art, as well as a sport. There's nothing else to compare it to? Well, yes...that's the idea. You can call it an unsuccessful hybrid, or you can simply call it incomparable.

 

[janetfan]

It's amazing how some posters really are not interested in Sport, but get their Fix by watching Tricks against Background Music. Sorry boys, you will never win over Cirque du Soleil.

Just sit by your fireside bride and watch the high art of metal shoes brighten your evening. Good Night Irene. You've done your sport.

Just curious about this fixation with "high art." Where are the posts that claim skating is high art?

Mathman mentioned "Bond Girl" but I don't think he implied it was "high art."

Some fans might think "Bond Girl" was hip although I think it was "campy."
Others might admire the way a skater as athletic and elegant as Yuna can make a program that is anything but easy look so effortless.

However we might classify "Bond Girl" all I know is that many fans really liked it as did the judges.

 

[janetfan]

I'm with you, Math. I'm here for the music. Seriously, it's the amalgam of sport and art that makes skating so wonderful to me. The grace in skating is of an entirely different quality from the grace in a sport like half-pipe or the 110-meter hurdle. In addition to all that Mathman has brought up, here's another thought: what would be the reason to skate with graceful arm movements or extended limbs, or pointed toes, if there were no music and only the jumps, turns, and so on were being judged?

Not to take anything from Cirque du Soleil, but even drifting through the air on wires doesn't give the effect of glide that only skating can provide to dancers. The skater's movement across ice is what gives the flow from position to position. Even a ballet dancer in arabesque can move from one place to another just by hopping on the balancing foot. Compare that to the swoop across the ice of the best spirals. Skating deserves its description as an art, as well as a sport. There's nothing else to compare it to? Well, yes...that's the idea. You can call it an unsuccessful hybrid, or you can simply call it incomparable.

What a wonderful post Olympia

I wonder why I always loved this program so much and your post reminded me of the "gliding" and the way she used the music so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KplWMCsgx2Q

 

[Violet Bliss]

In gymnastics, the floor exercise is done with music for the girls* and without it for Men, is one art and the other sport?

* I use "girls" in the literal sense as per normal in gymnastics, whereas the male competitors are usually young adults.

 

[Olympia]

I can't speak for gymnastics, because I don't watch as much. But that's a fascinating question, SF. My off-the-top-of-my-head thought might be that, considering the emphasis on strength in the men's apparatus and that on agility, flexibility, and balance in the ladies', it does (now that you bring it up) seem like almost two different sports. I noticed once with some amazement that except for I think the floor, the men barely touch the ground. It's mostly upper-body and trunk strength that is displayed. Even the floor exercises have a bunch of strength moves that use the upper body only. I suspect that when they added ladies' activities to the official sport, they put music in the floor event to make them seem more feminine. I wouldn't have called any part of it art in the old days, but certainly since the Soviets came into the sport and dominated it, they have emphasized ballet training for their gymnasts, and it shows in their extensions, toe points, and other aspects, so I'd at least leave the question open. The answer wouldn't influence my thoughts on figure skating's status in the least, however. Two totally different birds!

Interestingly, the kind of gymnastics to which you and I are currently referring is called "artistic gymnastics," to differentiate it from rhythmic gymnastics. And if you ask me about rhythmic gymnastics (the one with the ribbons, hoop, ball, and so forth), I do feel there's a lot of art in it. It's gorgeous and often neglected. Does anyone remember that great ice routine Katia Gordeyeva did with gymnastics ribbons? Glorious. And definitely art.