Looks like she wants to start her season early this year :yay:
Mirai Nagasu
- Thread starter kalle
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Looks like she wants to start her season early this year :yay:
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Mirai has early back to back GP events so she has to be in good shape early in the season this year.
I still don't think Frank Carrol cares nearly as much about the GP as many GS fans, but because skating is as much about reputation as real sport it makes sense to get Mirai ready for the pre-season pageant events. Those PCS depend on them :disagree:
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Hernando, you've made that assertion several times, that doing the GP series is important to get reputation PCS. Do you have any facts/examples to back up that assertion that you've made repeatedly? Where you felt a skater who's success on the GP circuit gave him a PCS boost by Worlds that he/she/they didn't earn on the ice?
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Which one? I'm being serious here.
The Shibutanis didn't make the GPF (so they didn't do as well on the GP circuit as six other teams) but of the five GPF teams that were at Worlds (Hoffman/Zavosin weren't), they out PCS'ed all but two (D/W and P/B). D/W DID beat V/M on PCS, but that wasn't reputation bonus. That was skating a harder program (higher component scores in choreography and linking movement, which are the two heaviest weighted components) and did it cleaner (skating skills/performance).
Pairs? Well, let's start with the fact that the number two team DIDN'T SKATE THE GP SERIES!!!!!! Then let's point out that the number one team gave, on balance, the best performance of their careers. Then lets recall that the GP series was actually not a strong one for Pang/Tong, but they outPCSed the Germans in the short at Worlds (and lost because of a flawed LP).
Men? I'm curious about this one. Chan's PCS for his Worlds SP was actually lower than earned at the GPF, and I think it was undeniably a better skate (I actually think he was lowballed a bit in choreography/transitions myself, his intepretation and performance were both stronger). Kozuka? Gachinsky?
Ladies? Again, Kim beat Ando on PCS. So did Kostner.
So, no, it's not a "duh" statement for me, so can you explain it?
The Shibutanis didn't make the GPF (so they didn't do as well on the GP circuit as six other teams) but of the five GPF teams that were at Worlds (Hoffman/Zavosin weren't), they out PCS'ed all but two (D/W and P/B). D/W DID beat V/M on PCS, but that wasn't reputation bonus. That was skating a harder program (higher component scores in choreography and linking movement, which are the two heaviest weighted components) and did it cleaner (skating skills/performance).
Pairs? Well, let's start with the fact that the number two team DIDN'T SKATE THE GP SERIES!!!!!! Then let's point out that the number one team gave, on balance, the best performance of their careers. Then lets recall that the GP series was actually not a strong one for Pang/Tong, but they outPCSed the Germans in the short at Worlds (and lost because of a flawed LP).
Men? I'm curious about this one. Chan's PCS for his Worlds SP was actually lower than earned at the GPF, and I think it was undeniably a better skate (I actually think he was lowballed a bit in choreography/transitions myself, his intepretation and performance were both stronger). Kozuka? Gachinsky?
Ladies? Again, Kim beat Ando on PCS. So did Kostner.
So, no, it's not a "duh" statement for me, so can you explain it?
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I doubt if you believe in your heart what you just wrote. Maybe we need a multi-paragragh post from ultimate CoP defender gkelly stating how CoP skating is "pure sport" and has little if any politics or reputation involved.
Regardless, I don't buy it. CoP skating is very political and still far from being a real sport in my eyes.
Regardless, I don't buy it. CoP skating is very political and still far from being a real sport in my eyes.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Hernando: Makes assertion.
ImaginaryPogue: Questions assertion.
Hernando: Vague example
ImaginaryPogue: Questions example
Hernando: Dismissive condescension without making a pretense of engaging in the ideas presented. Straw man slam.
ImaginaryPogue: Questions assertion.
Hernando: Vague example
ImaginaryPogue: Questions example
Hernando: Dismissive condescension without making a pretense of engaging in the ideas presented. Straw man slam.
Don't think anyone is disputing that Nagasu has talent, because she clearly does.
However, talent is only a small part of what is necessary to succeed not only in skating, but in any sport.
I've gotten on her case in the past because of her failure to rise to the occasion when she was truly capable of winning (2010 worlds, 2011 nationals come to mind). She has proven that she can do it (2010 nationals, 2011 4CC), she just needs to do it on the big stage.
Out of the current crop, she is the only one that I believe can survive the up-and-comers and lead US skating through to 2014. She has the talent, and I personally believe she has the ability. You're not going to get that from Czisny (too old), Flatt (not good enough), or Zhang (too far gone).
As for Nagasu's "personality", well I saw her live at SOI last year (the post-Oly tour) and you could have fooled me. Where'd it go?? Nagasu seems to be a "moody" skater and is not real good at hiding her true emotions, so if she's having a bad day, forget getting a charming skate out of her. If she's having a great day, OTOH...few can match her energy.
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- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Just your opinion which does not differ from a few other CoP fanatics.
I have been thinking about starting a new thread examing podiums in the CoP era. If I get the time perhaps I wll do it.
I nominate you to doit and would find such a study fascinating since so many believe that CoP podiums are not always so accurate.
ETA: Here is one for my quite forgetful adversary.
2010 Worlds.
Yuna won the LP but IMO Mao clearly skated better. Yuna won the 2010 Worlds LP on CoP reputation scoring.
Look at '09 Worlds Dance podium and tell me truthfully that was not about reputation scoring. Or the 2010 Olympics Dance podium bronze medal where blatant political favoritism was in full sight as rules were bent to favor a certain team. :sheesh:
I could go on and Chan winning SC last season was horrific IMO.
I agree with Toller Cranston that the new system can be highly inaccurate and is just as political as scorng in the past.
Maybe someday I will live in the non-sporting bubble you inhabit, until then I call it like I see it.
When the former system was discarded many hoped the new system would not just eliminate problems from the past but be clearly better.
I don't see that as being true.
Speedy said publicly there was too much cheating and politics in the past.
Rather than taking agressive action against the cheaters he decided it was better to "cover" them with anonymous judging.
I agree with Frank Carroll and don't think the new system has done enough.
In either case it is not the system but the people involved at the highest levels of figure skating.There are too many crooks and Speedy when given the choice declined to get rid of some of the worst offenders.
Instead he brought us anonymous judging with the sole purpose of hiding the cheating. No surprise the Canadians were behind that as history shows they were far from being the most unbiased judges.
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- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
Yes-thankfully.
I like Joannie but her arms/shoulders just seem over-developed to me. Perhaps it's genetics though.
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- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Yes-thankfully.
That's terrible. I like that Joannie is not afraid to hit the weights and become as strong as she can be. I feel bad when people talk about her man shoulders, because she's probably put a lot of work into developing large arm and deltoid muscles. All skaters have gigantic quadriceps too, except we can't see them because they're covered by rhinestone studded skirts and tights, and consequently no one ever says, ew man legs.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Joannie is actually very petite. She is quite a bit smaller than Yuna, Mao, and Mirai. No way she has "man shoulders" if one sees her in person. Moi, I love braod shoulders, especially those of Cheltzea Lee. Awesome.
I always liked Joannie's air of strength. Man shoulders, phooey. She's just toned. I like that she looks substantial and not wispy--sylphs are great, but it adds a nice variety to see someone who appears more solid. And completely feminine, may I add.
I'm surprised to hear that she's smaller than people like Yuna, but I shouldn't be. Skaters who are "un-wispy" can often look deceptively tall or imposing on TV. I always thought that Irina Slutskaya seemed tall and muscular, and then I saw her standing next to another skater and realized that she's pretty small. Midori Ito is another one who, because of her solid build, seems as though she'd be taller than the average. In reality, she's several inches under five feet tall!
I'm surprised to hear that she's smaller than people like Yuna, but I shouldn't be. Skaters who are "un-wispy" can often look deceptively tall or imposing on TV. I always thought that Irina Slutskaya seemed tall and muscular, and then I saw her standing next to another skater and realized that she's pretty small. Midori Ito is another one who, because of her solid build, seems as though she'd be taller than the average. In reality, she's several inches under five feet tall!
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
Perhaps but some skaters legs are more developed than others. Skaters like Yamaguchi, Cohen, Kwan, Kim, Nagasu-they all have rather nicely proportioned legs imo.
I appreciate that Joannie has worked hard for those muscles-but I don't have to like them. She's such a pretty girl-when I first saw her it was rather startling to see her muscular arms. For a figure skater they seemed a bit out of proportion with the rest of her but that's jmo. To each his own.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Did it not get Alissa Czisny out of the doldrums? How many fans were hoping she would win the Final? Before the GPs, she was considered a loser.
Unfortunately, the GPs can also mar a reputation vis-a-vis] Patrick's notworthy Falls in the GP. His reputation was saved by a youtube of the Canadian Nationals.
Figure Skating doesn't lend itself to consistency; even the mighty fall. The GPs are a good look at how well an athlete can move from year to another.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Oh, I think the GPs are good for much more than that. But I think it's a tautology to suggest that competing on them gives athletes a PCS boost they otherwise wouldn't receive due to politcking.
a) Chan is a good example. He has two four fall events before the GPF which had a couple of errors. Did doing the GP give him a reputation boost? I don't think so. You can arguing that he got a rep boost from being a two time worlds medalist or that Skate Canada was politicking him. However, the GPs were important because it told him what was working and what wasn't - namely, the triple axel vs the quad. In three competitions, he demonstrated a higher success with rate with the quad than the axel. So his performances on the GP gave him that knowledge to change, which led to stronger performances (it's clear that the quad is less of a mental obstacle than the triple axel, which gave him more freedom to perform, and he succeeded). I agree his online/audience reputation was helped immeasurably by his skate at Nationals, but the international judges had already demonstrated they were giving him the scores.
b) Czisny... again, it's about demonstrating competitive readiness. Her success was inspiring, definitely.
c) I haven't done the statistics, but a glance at the facts demonstrates there's no real correlation between PCS, GP success (lack thereof) and Worlds success beyond the obvious. Skaters that do well on the GP circuit tend to be better skaters and tend to do well at worlds. But lets look at two counterexamples. Crone/Poirier were the third ranked team on the GP circuit/came third at the GPF. Their PCS had them in third as well. So, the addition of Virtue/Moir (who, by virtue of being better skaters get placed ahead of them) means they should be fourth in PCS, right? At Worlds, they were TENTH in PCS!!!! Doing well on the GP circuit certainly didn't give them a PCS boost at Worlds. Kanako Murakami, despite her success on the GP circuit, saw her PCS decline at Worlds as well. Why? Well, in the case of C/P, I'd argue it was definitely a consequence of what happened on the ice, not reputation bonus (didn't see Murakami, so can't comment).
d) We tend to ignore the fact that scores tend to be highest at Worlds. Skaters try to be at their best for that competition because, well, it's the most important one. This season was odd because of the postponement meaning that wasn't always the case.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
IP - Your post is fine, however, I think of the GP Series as an independent Championship from all others. It is totally international - not like a Nationals or a Cheesefest. I would love to have more truly open championships scattered about the year. The Worlds can remain the highlight of the season, and it would remain seasonal because who gets back to back golds?
Mirai's photo from THE ICE. I guess this's a dress for tango program.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1511/z09b75ddf.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1511/z09b75ddf.jpg
Mirai's photo from THE ICE. I guess this's a dress for tango program.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1511/z09b75ddf.jpg
Nice photo!
I have been looking for videos from the show but have not found any with Mirai..
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