Men's Short Program

[skatinginbc]

According to the Globe and Mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...umps-to-third-at-skate-canada/article2218534/, Jeffrey Buttle created part, if not most, of the Fernadez's short program, and Brian Orser was the designer of his SP costumes.
I predict Jeffrey Buttle will become another highly sought-after choreographer in a few years, and I cannot wait for the day to come.

 

[museksk8r]

I would have Fernandez at least 5 points up on Chan, and Takahashi at least a point ahead of Fernandez.

I agree. I think that would be a more fair assessment of how the scoring should have shaped up. :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, you know I don't think much of a SP, so I think if we consider the two part figure skating competition, then we should discuss clearly the difference between the two only in a Final Skate. We tend to get lost on PC scores in the Final Skate moreso than Sport section of measuring the athletic elements as completed elements.

Can we say that Carolina Kostner has better completed elements than say Alissa Czisney at Skate America ? Imo, she does, and I would also say she is a better performer. That would be more discussion like if the poster gave some rationale. My rationale would be that Carolina flows with the music and has more natural arms while Alissa is just too careful with the elements and therefore loses the flow of the music.
.

I haven't seen the Men's SP and hopefully the Final Skate will show the discussion as clearly two separate parts of the Competition. Not just a statement but some rationale to back it up.

Of course, many fans will favor nationalities over 'best' in show moreso than what they truly see. I think with Javier's excursion into the world of Canadian coaches has paid off.

 

[Medusa]

Can Patrick please not go for the standard-Lambiel-SP-layout? My nerves! This seems to be a much tastier competition than the men at SA. I cannot wait for tonight.

And I hope Fernandez becomes European Champion this season. He still has some problems with his basic skating (compared to Chan and the Japanese) and spins (the Swiss are the only Europeans who can spin), but he is still the best male skater coming out of Europe in quite a few years.

 

[fscric]

And I hope Fernandez becomes European Champion this season.

I'd like that to happen, too.

 

[let`s talk]

I was relatively pleased and truly surprised with the results of SP. Seems like judges this time wasn't abnormally generous in overscoring Chan. Probably the strong critics from specialists, as well as from online community, during last two seasons did their work. Congrats, online folks! Still his PCS is slightly ahead of Dai's and that is beyond my understanding.
As for his words and attitude that someone mentioned earlier, I hope one day ISU will start fining athletes, like they do it in other sports, for any kind of unsportmanship, including the one that Chan repeatedly demonstrates in his interviews.

 

[prettykeys]

According to the Globe and Mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...umps-to-third-at-skate-canada/article2218534/, Jeffrey Buttle created part, if not most, of the Fernadez's short program, and Brian Orser was the designer of his SP costumes. I predict Jeffrey Buttle will become another highly sought-after choreographer in a few years, and I cannot wait for the day to come.

Oh, thank you for sharing that nicely written article.

 

[Mathman]

As for his words and attitude that someone mentioned earlier, I hope one day ISU will start fining athletes, like they do it in other sports, for any kind of unsportmanship...

Patrick's baby steps into the world of trash-talking would be laughed off the stage in sports like basketball, rugby, soccer, and the like.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Going by COP scoring, no surprice. Last year, Chan had 3 falls in the SP and was 4th, barely over the 5th and way below the 3rd. His saving grace was full rotations of all the big jumps. His biggest error last night was doubling the 3A. No falls, but with a stronger field, he ended up third, but not by much. (BTW, for the person complaining about his positive GOE despite doubling, the GOE are on 2A, not 3A.) Against a weaker field last year, Chan was able to overcom with an excellent LP with a beautiful quad while his strongest opponent faltered. His chances are very good this year if he keeps his cool. He has the TES advantage over Takahashi and PCS advantage over Fernandez.

As for reputation, well, Fernandez won because he brought it. The reigning record smashing World Champion is in 3rd. Reality.

 

[kiz_4Ever]

And I hope Fernandez becomes European Champion this season.

I second that. I'm so happy for him, and it'll be fantastic, I'll be very sad to find again Amodio on the podium (unless he doesn't change all the programs!).
ps: so happy for him, especially after last years worlds, when he was wayyyy underscored IMO!

I loved both Javier and Dai, I hope those two could hold on also in the free!

 

[skatinginbc]

Though I am nobody and don’t even know how to skate, I would like to play the judge, just for fun:

Skating Skills: The differences in cleanness, sureness, effortlessness, multi-directions of the flows and edges are apparent to my eye between Javier and the other two, but less so between Dai and Patrick. So my scores will reflect that: Patrick 8.93, Dai 8.53, Javier 7.68.

Transitions & Linking Footwork & Movement: Again, the same observation is also applied to the differences in variety, difficulty, and intricacy of positions and movements that link all elements. I agree with the scores given by the judges: Patrick 8.36, Dai 8.18, Javier 7.57

Performance/Execution: In my view, the “performance” of the day was not Javier but Dai. Javier might arguably have the best “projection” (connection with the audience) of the day, where Dai had the best use of line and carriage and was very good in everything else. Patrick looked nervous and therefore his emotional expression did not appear sincere. What saved him however was that this category concerns not only performance but also execution. And I would argue that his execution (quality and precision) is next to none. So, my scores are: Dai 8.57, Patrick 8.29, Javier 7.93

Choreography / Composition: Patrick’s choreography exceled in terms of its variety of patterns and full use of ice coverage. I think I would keep the judges’ scores: Patrick 8.68, Dai 8.46, Javier 7.89.
Interpretation: Dai shined in his refined, artful manipulation of nuances. Javier did a decent job in the expression of the music’s style, character, and rhythm. I think Patrick was slightly overmarked in this category. And my scores are: Dai 8.61, Patrick 8.24, Javier 8.04

So the PCS would be Patrick 42.50, Dai 42.35, Javier 39.11. After adding the TES, their total scores will be Dai 84.76 (42.41+ 42.35), Javier 84.71 (45.60 + 39.11), Patrick 82.73 (40.38 + 42.35). Comparing to their official scores (Dai 84.66, Javier 84.71, Patrick 83.28), I think it was a very well-judged event.

 

[Spun Silver]

I don't believe in policing athletes' speech, unless during a competition, and I have no problem with a top athlete bragging. IMO they get their proper comeuppance the way Patrick just did, by being shown very publicly how slippery it is up there at the top. And then the next day they have the chance to come back and prove that they were right to brag in the first place.

For all I know, the only way these best-of-the-best athletes can do what they do is to constantly psych themselves up to a level beyond my imagining. (Incidentally, I noticed how many times Patrick's coach told him, "I'm proud of you" after his not-so-hot skate.) Anyway, a little swagger makes the world a more colorful place. If I don't like the athletes who do it, I don't have to look. Go, Serena! Go, Patrick!

 

[blue_idealist]

Does anyone think that Chan wasn't 'held up' as much as last season when he had mistakes, because he's reusing his program? (I know he was reusing his LP last year though, so I'm not sure if this is a good theory, but the judges might not be a fan of Take 5.)

 

[Mrs. P]

From Ice Network article.

"When you are world champion, [the judges] tend to cut you a little slack, but then there's the other 5 percent where the brain starts doubting," he said. "But I've been in bigger holes and recovered. This was certainly better than last year."

Chan needs to say stuff like this. Seriously. I get what he's saying, but you don't need to say that stuff outloud....

Anyway great SP-- glad to see Javier break out tonight and Dai doing a clean performance. And I'm glad Chan managed to hold together and not fall -- the skating skills are good as always. Can't wait to watch the FS!

 

[emma]

Though I am nobody and don’t even know how to skate, I would like to play the judge, just for fun:

Skating Skills: The differences in cleanness, sureness, effortlessness, multi-directions of the flows and edges are apparent to my eye between Javier and the other two, but less so between Dai and Patrick. So my scores will reflect that: Patrick 8.93, Dai 8.53, Javier 7.68.

Transitions & Linking Footwork & Movement: Again, the same observation is also applied to the differences in variety, difficulty, and intricacy of positions and movements that link all elements. I agree with the scores given by the judges: Patrick 8.36, Dai 8.18, Javier 7.57

Performance/Execution: In my view, the “performance” of the day was not Javier but Dai. Javier might arguably have the best “projection” (connection with the audience) of the day, where Dai had the best use of line and carriage and was very good in everything else. Patrick looked nervous and therefore his emotional expression did not appear sincere. What saved him however was that this category concerns not only performance but also execution. And I would argue that his execution (quality and precision) is next to none. So, my scores are: Dai 8.57, Patrick 8.29, Javier 7.93

Choreography / Composition: Patrick’s choreography exceled in terms of its variety of patterns and full use of ice coverage. I think I would keep the judges’ scores: Patrick 8.68, Dai 8.46, Javier 7.89.
Interpretation: Dai shined in his refined, artful manipulation of nuances. Javier did a decent job in the expression of the music’s style, character, and rhythm. I think Patrick was slightly overmarked in this category. And my scores are: Dai 8.61, Patrick 8.24, Javier 8.04

So the PCS would be Patrick 42.50, Dai 42.35, Javier 39.11. After adding the TES, their total scores will be Dai 84.76 (42.41+ 42.35), Javier 84.71 (45.60 + 39.11), Patrick 82.73 (40.38 + 42.35). Comparing to their official scores (Dai 84.66, Javier 84.71, Patrick 83.28), I think it was a very well-judged event.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: really thoughtful and interesting analysis...thanks for sharing! I agree with all of this, although admit I couldn't think this up myself.....my only question is choreography: I do agree that Patrick is amazing in his use of patterns and ice coverage I just wonder if Dai is just a tad closer than you put him; I think his patterns are great, but did feel he wasn't covering as much ice.

And:

SkateFiguring

Going by COP scoring, no surprice. Last year, Chan had 3 falls in the SP and was 4th, barely over the 5th and way below the 3rd. His saving grace was full rotations of all the big jumps. His biggest error last night was doubling the 3A. No falls, but with a stronger field, he ended up third, but not by much. (BTW, for the person complaining about his positive GOE despite doubling, the GOE are on 2A, not 3A.) Against a weaker field last year, Chan was able to overcom with an excellent LP with a beautiful quad while his strongest opponent faltered. His chances are very good this year if he keeps his cool. He has the TES advantage over Takahashi and PCS advantage over Fernandez.

As for reputation, well, Fernandez won because he brought it. The reigning record smashing World Champion is in 3rd. Reality.

this about sums it up too.

And I agree with others re: Javi at Europeans!

 

[Art&Sport]

Joesitz, you don't like the sp in figure skating? It is there b/c that is how the sport evolved, just as compulsory figures are no longer a part of the sport b/c they were eliminated. Television plays a role in both instances. In the early 1970s at the World Championships, the audience and tv viewers were confused and upset when Janet Lynn did not win over Beatrix Schuba and others in the free skate at Worlds, when clearly Lynn was the superior freestyle skater. Schuba was a whiz at compulsory figures which carried more weight (higher scores) in those days. Television could not adequately cover figures, and figure skating was even more hard to understand for viewers back then. As a result of the controversy, figures were devalued (& eventually eliminated from competition in 1990), and above all, the short program was born. It was felt that this would give Lynn and other stronger freestyle skaters a better opportunity to shine (and accumulate high marks). Unfortunately, Lynn never became a World champion, but she is a legend in figure skating, renowned in Japan, and forever etched in the hearts of those who love figure skating and know its history.

Figure skating does need to evolve as times change, but it is extremely slow to do so, and that's one reason why the scramble to institute IJS. The sport should have been working more diligently and purposefully on revising the scoring system a long time before 2002. I think the short program has become an integral part of the sport and is enjoyable to watch. I think the sport should now seriously think about awarding medals separately for the separate programs. I know they have the mini medal wins awarded behind-the-scenes after the sp, but why not make it more official.

 

[museksk8r]

Chan needs to say stuff like this. Seriously. I get what he's saying, but you don't need to say that stuff outloud....

And therein lies the problem. Makes it difficult for me not to want to cheer him right off the podium. Cockiness is a huge pet-peeve of mine. :disapp:

 

[Violet Bliss]

I'd really like to hear Patrick himself because in other reports those are not the words he said. They are more like having the World title makes him easier on himself. From articles I linked on his thread:

"Winning the worlds kind of gives you the room to make mistakes," he reasoned. "It gives you the leisure to not be hard on yourself. I think that's why I'm happy to be third. I really am grateful to have the God-given gifts to skate."

“Winning worlds, you leave yourself room to make mistakes,” Chan shrugged afterwards, seeming not at all dismayed by his un-Chan-ian performance, in fact his first competition since capturing the global crown in Moscow last spring.

These are consistent with what he has been saying in recent interviews, that having the Worlds title and Guiness records under his belt relaxes and frees him to pursue his goals for the sport.

 

[Art&Sport]

From Ice Network article.

"When you are world champion, [the judges] tend to cut you a little slack,"
Chan needs to say stuff like this. Seriously. I get what he's saying, but you don't need to say that stuff outloud....

...

Yes, skaters and fans might think it, but if you benefited by it, please don't say it out loud Patrick. I think he is encouraged in his attitude by the way he is revered almost as a God in Canada. In any case, the judges have rewarded Patrick very well even when he wasn't World champion!

OT--Joesitz re Alissa and Carolina, come on. They are both very close in abilities, and also generally both beloved by skating fans. I think Alissa is the one who has impacted the ladies' field with her skating. Everyone is patterning themselves after Alissa's gorgeous skating. Yes, we tend to feel or sense a hesitation by Alissa going into the jumps, but she's improved in that aspect by leaps and bounds, and is not hesitating quite as much. She's attacking and that's why she's getting good results. We can take this to the ladies thread.

ETA: No matter the exact words, I don't see anything yet that changes what he was saying. Still, keep it to yourself. Also, Patrick was still receiving "slack" from the judges prior to his becoming a World champion. I'll bet he feels freer to pursue his goals knowing that in the judges' eyes he can do little wrong, even when he makes glaring mistakes.

 

[skatinginbc]

I think he was saying:
"When you are world champion, [you] tend to cut you [yourself] a little slack, but then there's the other 5 percent where the brain starts doubting."
And from the grammatical and psycholinguistic point of view, it is a more likely scenario given that the subject in the main clause is identical to the adverbial clause.


Ice Network probably has put words (i.e., "the judges") into his mouth. It is unlikely that the subject of the main clause would be missing if it is different from the adverbial clause.