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- Nov 3, 2006
'Dancers .. to quote Sybil Fawlty , Oh ,I Kno-o-o-ow ! I can't take all this salt . I'll have to break out the Bailey's to counteract it.
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All Things Canadian Ice Dance
- Thread starter colleen o'neill
- Start date
'Dancers .. to quote Sybil Fawlty , Oh ,I Kno-o-o-ow ! I can't take all this salt . I'll have to break out the Bailey's to counteract it.
WOW..being out here in the east we dont see many dance teams, but just noticed that the base score for the 2 BC teams is 3 full points higher than the top three at nhk in the short. dont know the second team but wow! higher base score than the 2 cos teams too...
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- Jul 26, 2003
I never believe home-cooked scores; not in the US, not in Canada, not in Russia, etc. I particularly don't believe in 2 perfect rhumba passes when no team on the senior grand prix scored them.
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- Nov 3, 2006
Mama's pot roast tastes like prime rib ? Now that's cookin '...herios..here I was thinking you were too polite to cuss on the boards..t-u-r-n is a four letter word.
Noticed free dance scores a bit closer. number 1 in cos would beat number 1 in bc...but way behind on tech score...number 2 in bc beats number 2 in cos by a mile in tech and just a little overall. Do all these teams compete at challenge? if so looks like the final group will duke it out and be close...what did quebec and others do?
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- Nov 3, 2006
bladz.. NorthernDancers pointed out that V/M , W/P ,P/I , R/H and H/G have a bye to Nationals as a result of having GP assignments. So R/H won't need to skate at Challenge..I guess they needn't have skated at COS either then... So, since they're from the same school , were they just acting as foils for G/P ?
Both BC teams are just moving up from Jr.s.. O/W were first at Junior Canadian's last year , VA/S were 8th , after a year together.
Quebec sectionals were won by Anoushka Ritchie - Hervieux and Phillipe Masse.. 45.49 SD and 63.49 FD
EOS won by Letourneau / Boczar ...40.31 SD and 62.64 FD
My sister's reaction to the COS FD marks ?..Oh! The Humanity !..
I wonder if the real contest here isn't going on behind the scenes, and via message-sending .... L/R vs. W/L ( dukes up! )
Both BC teams are just moving up from Jr.s.. O/W were first at Junior Canadian's last year , VA/S were 8th , after a year together.
Quebec sectionals were won by Anoushka Ritchie - Hervieux and Phillipe Masse.. 45.49 SD and 63.49 FD
EOS won by Letourneau / Boczar ...40.31 SD and 62.64 FD
My sister's reaction to the COS FD marks ?..Oh! The Humanity !..
I wonder if the real contest here isn't going on behind the scenes, and via message-sending .... L/R vs. W/L
( dukes up! )
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Do R/H have to skate Challenge since they did Sectionals? Do teams that only had 1 GP still have the bye to Nats?
Not sure it was a good move if they were foils for G/P.
Going head-to-head with G/P before Nationals doesn't seem like the greatest idea, although perhaps R/H felt it was important to get more competition under their belts this fall, only having had one GP. (Or maybe Carol Lane just calls the shots and wanted the match-up.)
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- Jan 15, 2010
I'm thinking that is highly unlikely in real life. Sectionals is not real life. As Doris said above, never believe in home-cooked scores. My guess is that both COS teams are well ahead of the BC teams at this point. I don't know about Gillies/Poirier so far ahead of Ralph/Hill. R/H made a great deal of progress this year. I would think the SD would be a lot harder for Gillies/Poirier, since the skills required to perform the SD successfully are a lot more difficult to mask and hide, and require some time and development. The FD for G/P is really a very good strategic choice, I think, since it relies almost completely on tricks. Because it is entertaining and fast, one almost doesn't notice that there is very little dancing going on. I really don't know how this will stack up with the top teams. I'm a fan of real dancing, so I know on what side of that decision I would land, but Poirier is reigning Canadian champion and Gillies has a lot of experience as well. I just think the program is a a bit of smoke and mirrors at this point. Again, I really hope I am not being too optimistic to think that Skate Canada will put in place highly qualified, fair and equitable callers and judges at Challenge. That will more accurately tell the tale about where these teams really rank.
As for Challenge, I have a couple of question marks. I have not seen the Manitoba team that trains in Barrie: Arrotta/Nickel. My assumption would be they should have guest skated in COS? There were 2 teams that withdrew from Quebec: Dupont/Connolly and Bissonnett/Lockey. Because these teams belong to sections that do not have full rosters, do these teams just get a bye through to Challenge? I haven't heard of Bissonnette/Lockey yet this season. Are they still a team? What happened to Dupont/Connolly?
We'll have to see who is going to Challenge before making predictions. With Challenge all the way in Regina, it will be quite expensive for Ralph/Hill to attend, so perhaps they will take their bye.
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- Jan 15, 2010
If that is what happened here, and there was coach pressure to skate, then I think Ralph/Hill need to find some new coaches. A coach's job is to take care of ALL their students, and not setup 1 team against the other. There was no reason for Ralph/Hill to skate at Sectionals. They are fine until Nationals, as far as I know. I'm sure we won't see Harvey/Gagnon until Nationals.
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- Nov 3, 2006
jolen...
Like R/H , Harvey / Gagnon had 1 GP and they didn't skate at BC sectionals. I'm sure they would have ,if they'd needed to.They and R/H apparently don't have to skate at Challenge.
You would think R/H wouldn't need to test themselves against G/P , since they skate with them at the same rink.You'd think the two couples would have a pretty good idea of how they stack up. And if G/P are really that much better( almost 12 points overall ) you'd think R/H might want to avoid coming up against them until they had to. ( Unless , of course , they're taking one for the Gipper )All you can tell is their SD , the weaker of their programs, was scored almost 4 points higher than at skate America , yet in their FD, their stronger program, they were suddenly getting much lower levels ( not to mention -GOEs) on almost everything , scoring 6.54 points less than at SA in front of an int'l panel.
So I echo NorthernDancers' wish for a tough , experienced tech panel at Challenge and Nationals.
Like R/H , Harvey / Gagnon had 1 GP and they didn't skate at BC sectionals. I'm sure they would have ,if they'd needed to.They and R/H apparently don't have to skate at Challenge.
You would think R/H wouldn't need to test themselves against G/P , since they skate with them at the same rink.You'd think the two couples would have a pretty good idea of how they stack up. And if G/P are really that much better( almost 12 points overall ) you'd think R/H might want to avoid coming up against them until they had to. ( Unless , of course , they're taking one for the Gipper )All you can tell is their SD , the weaker of their programs, was scored almost 4 points higher than at skate America , yet in their FD, their stronger program, they were suddenly getting much lower levels ( not to mention -GOEs) on almost everything , scoring 6.54 points less than at SA in front of an int'l panel.
So I echo NorthernDancers' wish for a tough , experienced tech panel at Challenge and Nationals.
How well did they skate their FD at Sectionals? Were they "off" that day for some reason? Anyone see them in person?
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- Jul 26, 2003
Their FD at Skate America was excellent, and would have scored higher & netted them the bronze there, if they hadn't made a mistake on a rotational lift. The lift appears to have been planned for two or three rotations only, and relies on the lift being one handed to get the level. If the lifting partner has to use the other hand to assist, the lift drops from level 4 to level 2.
I'm sorry to see their program score less at home, and do wonder what happened.
Are protocols available? Or a video?
I'm sorry to see their program score less at home, and do wonder what happened.
Are protocols available? Or a video?
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Unfortunately Ralph and Hill had a rough skate yesterday, hence their lower levels. They chose to go to Sectionals because it was another opportunity to put their programs out in front of a panel and get feedback. The COS panel included Ann Shaw, who I am sure needs no introduction. Kharis and Asher felt that it was too long between Skate America and Nationals to go without competing, so they chose sectionals rather than challenge because of the costs involved with challenge. Last season they did challenge as well, as it was in Mississauga, even though they did two Grand Prix. Whether they did sectionals or challenge this year, they would have to skate against Gilles and Poirier, so the conspiracy theories can stop right there. Ralph and Hill made a training plan and are sticking to it. As far as scores go in the sections, every skater and coach knows that none of it matters at all until you are all together in the same event. As far as judging and tech panels go, if your favorites win, it was obviously a tough, knowledgeable panel, and if not, they were idiots. When coaches have teams competing against each other, only one team can win. igor has Tessa and Scott and Meryl and Charlie, Camerlengo has Weaver and Poje and Pechelat and Bourzat, and they will all end up competing against each other, and one team from each set will come out on top. Doesn't mean the coach does not care about both teams, because obviously they do. I'm sure Ralph and Hill, and Gilles and Poirier thrive on having such good training mates, because it will push both teams to greater efforts, just as it has done in other schools.
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- Jul 26, 2003
In the US, teams often have one member belong to an ice club in a different region & section, so that the team has the freedom to pick which section to compete in, depending on the competition.
Is that possible in Canada?
Is that possible in Canada?
I don't know if it is possible. But if so, it may explain why Andrew Poje is a member of the Kitchener-Waterloo Skating Club (southern Ontario), while Kaitlyn Weaver is listed as a member of the Sault Figure Skating Club (northern Ontario). I always wondered why Kaitlyn was a member of Sault FSC. As far as I am aware, she went directly to Kitchener-Waterloo to team with Andrew when she moved to Canada.
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- Jan 15, 2010
Given that Kaitlyn came from the US, she probably needed to choose a home. Therefore, since Northern has almost no ice dance teams, it was probably as good a choice as any. There would be basically no chance of not qualifying out of Sectionals. Tessa and Scott are from Western Ontario, not that they have competed at Sectionals in many years, but their presence still counts towards the numbers for the section. Back in the old days, and I'm not sure if this was still the case when Kaitlyn started skating with Andrew, there was Western and Eastern Challenge. For quite a number of years, Eastern Challenge was the more difficult competition. Northern Ontario section was part of Western Challenge, so that probably also figured into the equation.
Back to Doris' point above, there are instances where, if there are not enough entries to fill spots in the Section, skaters who train elsewhere can guest skate through another section. For example, Arrotta/Nickel represent Manitoba. There are no other dance teams from Manitoba. Since they train in Barrie, they would presumably guest skate through Central sectionals. Or even Western sectionals isn't too far away if they didn't want to compete against Gillies/Poirier or Ralph/Hill.
@Csparkles I really applaud Ralph/Hill for taking on opportunities to compete, even when they don't have to. It really shows their dedication to continuous improvement. They have made such good progress this year, and it would be a shame to see them "lost in the shuffle" again. I'm fairly confident they will place ahead of Paul/Islam, which means the tightest battle will be between Gillies/Poirier and Ralph/Hill for that 3rd spot. Perhaps they would be better served with good quality monitoring and simulations at their Club, which would mean the marks would not be broadcast around the country/world? On one hand, I completely agree that marks SHOULDN'T matter until all teams are in the same competition. In reality, I think it isn't that simple. It's probably why Virtue/Moir and Davis/White do not generally compete in the same competition until the GPF, 4 Continents, and then Worlds. It's also probably why Harvey/Gagnon and Orford/Williams will likely not compete against each other until Nationals. That's why I really hope there are good callers and judges at Challenge and Nationals who can leave all the past reputation, politics, and other such nonsense at the door and fairly and equitably judge what is on the ice that day, whatever the results might be. This has nothing to do with wanting favourites to win. It's about making sure judging is based only on what is skated that day, with the measuring stick being the same for all teams, from the top to the bottom.
Virtue / Moir and Davis / White don't compete against each other before 4CC because of GP rules. In the past, the top 3 seeds never competed against one another in the GP because each event was guaranteed the presence of two seeds, one from the top 3 and one from 4-6. Under the current ISU rules, it is possible for top seeds (1-3) to face one another if one or both choose to do three events. But as neither D/W nor V/M opted for 3 events, a matchup couldn't happen.
