Patrick Chan feeling unappreciated in Canada

[Violet Bliss]

The way the interview was summarized made it sound like Patrick was complaining about the Canadian people--not the federation. People complain about their bosses all the time. We almost expect the skaters to complain about the federation. But it sounded like he was mad that the Canadian people weren't idolizing him enough, that they didn't love him as much as Kurt Browning or Elvis Stojko. What he actually said, or in what context, we can only guess. But he sounded--or was paraphrased--to sound like a whiny teenager, not a champion.

Patrick never brought up KB and ES. The writer did to compare the eras.

Patrick meant to appreciate his biggest supporters but it was made to sound like he was complaining about the rest of them.

There is no way to stop media from twisting a person's words. In the US, the laws protect the "media", giving them the rights to say and manufacture anything thay like about a "public person". That's why you sometimes see celebrities suing some foreigh press and winning but they never take any legal action against the American press.

Probably the only thing someone like Patrick can do is to record every interview.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the..... diverse.

1. When Tomas Verner skated in North Korea for Kim Jong-Il, I was very upset (SkateFiguring defended him, Buttercup, so I don't think you can just presume it's his admiration for Chan guiding his thinking here). If Chan truly, truly doesn't know the history of China with regards to human rights, I would be terribly disappointed. I have to admit that PJ jumps to his defence was predictable, so I'm rather afraid to actually read it.

2. This idea that the media is at fault for Chan's comments bothers me as well. It's not as if he's the only skater to ever be interviewed. So why is it he that often comes off quite poorly compared to say Takahashi? We've mentioned his age quite a few times. After a certain point, though, we have to say that he's an adult, he's responsible for what he says. If it's true that the media twisted his words, he needs to be more careful about what he says. Politicians, of course, are masters (some are, anyway) at this. It's not for nothing people have been saying he needs media training.

3. One thing that bugs me (not from you, SF, but in general) is the idea that positive responses are somehow "canned" or "dishonest."

4. I do think race has a role in this discussion, albeit a minor one.

ETA; Stojko's comments

 

[Violet Bliss]

2. This idea that the media is at fault for Chan's comments bothers me as well. It's not as if he's the only skater to ever be interviewed. So why is it he that often comes off quite poorly compared to say Takahashi? We've mentioned his age quite a few times. After a certain point, though, we have to say that he's an adult, he's responsible for what he says. If it's true that the media twisted his words, he needs to be more careful about what he says. Politicians, of course, are masters (some are, anyway) at this. It's not for nothing people have been saying he needs media training.

Patrick is just such an easy target. He speaks English and is accessible, open, too open, and as PJ and others repeatedly say, he answers every question posed to him. Ask him anything and he will answer. He is high profile in the sport, always a nice target to create some controversies with. He has a sincere demeanor to get his points across when he is not so articulate. But that makes his words very easy to twist in written reports. Also there are so many eager to go along with any negative portrayal of him for various reasons. In a way, he is a media's dream!

Patrick admitted reading youtube comments and that can get to anybody. I have read some ugly racist attacks on him too. When you work so hard and sacrifice so much, harsh criticisms, often unjust, can be very discouraging, especially when you are training away from your support base with few positive contacts and feedbacks to counter balance the bashing. You trained hard, putting your life on hold, smeshed some records and got to the top of Worlds podium, you wonder what else you can do to please the people while you feel guilty putting your parents through so much, and morally indebted to those who hve supported you with their hearts, efforts and wallets, pinning so much hope and pride on you. I think this 20 year old is tough, much tougher than most of us, to do what he does, day in and day out.

I hope he keeps his happy disposition, his focus, and his admirable character. And keeps kicking asses.

 

[OS]

Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the..... diverse.

2. This idea that the media is at fault for Chan's comments bothers me as well. It's not as if he's the only skater to ever be interviewed. So why is it he that often comes off quite poorly compared to say Takahashi? We've mentioned his age quite a few times. After a certain point, though, we have to say that he's an adult, he's responsible for what he says. If it's true that the media twisted his words, he needs to be more careful about what he says. Politicians, of course, are masters (some are, anyway) at this. It's not for nothing people have been saying he needs media training.

This is the way I figured... in my typical un PC way

1. Boys tends to take a few more years longer to mature than the girls. So that makes 21 years old Patrick likely to have the mental age of around 16 - 18?
2. Patrick is likely to be a jock with his selection of quads and late artistry (-2 years for general knowledge, age 14-16)
3. Patrick have his mum travel with him everywhere (-1 year need to study or think for himself and lack social training)
4. Patrick is an over achiever (could develop in the direction of confidence/cocky/straightforward/blunt style of honest talk, which of course land him in trouble. Imagine give a microphone to a 13 years old with good intentions, you get funny business.)
5. Patrick's parents are from HK (Point 4 x 2 + likely to brag/boast + likely to complain. I have many HK friends so i know! Ha!)
6. Patrick is the golden child of his generation and with it, the attitudes of golden child, good and bad.
7. Patrick is the only child and likely to subject to typical ONLY CHILD behaviors. (Somewhat self centred and inward looking. He doesn't mean it but it just comes out naturally readily taken advantaged by the media.)
8. Patrick is a boy in a Chinese family (Point 7 x 2)

So viola, we have a 21 years old Patrick trapped with the mental/social age of a younger Patrick. Who is subject to single child + a golden child syndrome belong to a Chinese family from HK that is financially suffering despite his sporting successes, world champion. So he did and expressed naturally what he think/felt right. Along with typical media frenzie always looking for a story in this sport of good (+boring) manners. It might explain a few things.

 

[Violet Bliss]

os, I don't think Patrick is spoiled by his parents but by the Canadian media. He is often described as well raised. He has been the Golden Child of Canadian skating and well loved in the skating community. The regular skating interviewers, who are part of the Canadian skating family, have always appreciated his talents and loved him as a person. He was sheltered and used to speaking his mind with the adoring Canadian media, particularly those in the skating circle, without any guardedness. He was usually well understood. Until the Olympics. Suddenly he was swamped by the sharks and constantly put on the defensive. The foreign general media discovered him, a dream target, and damages were done to his image. He was barely nineteen when he experienced the sting and went through the bitter Olympic disappointment. The blood thirsty media left and Patrick grew up.

I actually found him grown up so much this year, self assured and handling the media with more assertiveness and less easily led. This last "report" is deja vu all over again. But then, I observed him on video. This is a written piece by an unfreindly media, with agenda as can be seen with the timing of release and the way it is worded to make it lappear the interview was done last week and as reflecting his current state of mind.

 

[skatinginbc]

I mentioned it before but didn't get any response, so I would like to bring it up again. I find it rather incongruous between a strong sense of financial responsibility for the family and the attitude of "I skate just to satisfy my own desire...I barely have any interest any more in how well I do in competitions." Can anyone help me come up with a plausible explanation to harmonize the two thoughts?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. Then he needs to learn to be more articulate, less open and more carefuly about which questions he answers and how he answers them. If he's an easy target, he needs to change that.

2. The idea that people with negative viewpoints about his skating wish to see a negative portrayal of him is something that troubles me as well. Yes, there are those people. So what? I know you don't consider me such a person, but the viewpoint I got from this article wasn't as flattering as I'd like to see in the run-up to the GPF. Now, it certainly doesn't change my admiration for his skating, of course, but nonetheless, it doesn't paint a great picture.

3. SF, the terms you use to describe him are passive to say the least. The idea that he cannot take an active role in how he's portrayed his absurd. Indeed, if you were in Patrick's circle, I'd almost argue that you were enabling some of his less valourous traits.

4. I want to flash to what I consider to be a fairly astute media interview:Virtue/Moir at TEB with Team Orange. Now, you might point out that they're with fans, not with the bloodthirsty sharks of the foreign media, but they're asked some questions that, if answered the wrong way, could cause offence. But they sidestep beautifully, without ever being dishonest (or appearing to be) while still giving terrific answers that don't seem canned.

skatinginbc, I don't understand what you consider contradictory about those two specific statements.

 

[OS]

SkateFiguring, good point about the Canadian media. The media is a really powerful weapon to bring positives but also negatives to someone in a sport where impression and reputation means a lot. I hope this latest media foul play won't affect his marking at GPF too much, but I can't help but think it 'might'.

I find it depressing to read all the negative comments posted on the article sites that pitted Canada Vs China. It is like have his duality conflicting each other instead of celebrating in a positive way, which Patrick actually represent.

Patrick is surely learning the hard way, and I am sure he will learn alot from this experience and perhaps be less free or even guarded with his nonchalant attitudes with the foreign media. The thing is, if you are leading this sport (likely the most political sport around), every move you make would likely to be scrutinized, targeted and have repercussions. I agree about observing his personal growth this as he comes to terms with his success, what it meant and even developed some form of personal philosophy about where it is headed (more artistry). I hope it won't affect his performance at GPF too much, as he defied the cold reception at Moscow with great performances, I hope he can do the same at GPF.

 

[skatinginbc]

skatinginbc, I don't understand what you consider contradictory about those two specific statements.

If earning money is in his priority, shouldn't he have some interest in how well he does in competitions? More medals ==> more prize money and more fame ==> more endorsement or ice shows ==> more money to pay off his parents' debt.......
It baffles me when he talked about financial burden of his parents on one hand and his lack of interest in competition outcomes on the other.

 

[ivy]

I'm a Patrick fan and none of this really changes any thing I thought about him. I do think the sheltered only child elite athlete incite above has some merit. I'm looking forward to a great skate from him this weekend! Still it's unfortunate.

The zeitgeist for figure skating has move to east Asia. You only had to watch the crowds at the various Grand Prix to see that. Complaining about this seems as effective as complaining about the weather - at least a bunch of people somewhere are passionate about figure skating!

I'm sure there are lots of people at Skate Canada and the USFSA trying to figure out how to get skating more attention, and money, in North America. If Patrick is worried about this, he's in one the best positions to try and help, but complaining isn't gonna do it. If he's worried about the financial problems of his family, he knows where the money is. If he want more excitement at home, win more, skate for a long time, fall less (personally I don't care about his falls, but makes for more complicated stories), spend more time in Canada.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

A rather obvious fact seems to have escaped a lot of people on the Skate for China issue: Patrick Chan's ability to even access the sport of figure skating is due the fact his parents emigrated to a country where this is possible (Canada in their case). Remember that Chan's parents are from the far south of China--where there is no tradition of figure skating and until fairly recently, nowhere to skate and train. Chinese elite figure skaters almost without exception--even today--come from the northeastern part of the country where they can learn as a child, then if the excel and can get noticed, get moved to the favored training centers and possibly plucked for development towards the national team. Had Patrick Chan's parents stayed in China in Guangzhou or Hong Kong or whatever city they left, he might have taken up some other sport, but he wouldn't have gotten close to a pair of ice skates until it was far too late in childhood for him to develop into an elite skater.

On the subject of putting one's foot in it--yes, Patrick needs to learn that there are some sentiments that one may feel, that should not be voiced publicly. There's just too many ways things can be misconstrued or spun by the media. I would have thought that his previous comments that created some controversies would have taught him that, but obviously he still has some maturing to do. He should have understood that even an insinuation of Canada vs China had a high probability of coming out as a slap against his own country, regardless of where he said it or in what language.

 

[skateluvr]

Patrick is like a little kid with much self admiration. I recall before Vancouver he announced in a decidedly put down way that Plushenko was "old." And the great champion was dismissed by Patrick. I'm sure he's gonna regret these comments in a few years. This is not the 90's skating scene post whack with money everywhere. I think his immaturity will not go well with Canadian fans who have supported him so well. I have never been enthralled with Patrick, tho he is very good.

Worlds cometh and I hope the best wins, Daisukue!

ETA: Patrick needs to watch Mao's Last Dancer to see what life was like not so long ago in China and see what artists had to sacrifice to be in the West and acheive the success he has had. The world is suffering and so many are, this seems like someone should spank him...really.

 

[Taan]

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/12/08/patrick-chan-backs-away-from-comments/
“You see it on TV all the time,” Chan said, “you see these hockey players or these baseball players who sign $200-million contracts. It is kind of hard to look at yourself and be like, ‘Geez I wish I had that much money.’ ”

 

[skateflower]

I don't even like Patrick Chan but this debate is ridiculous. Chan's parents were from Hong Kong, a quite prosperous place!! His parents emigrated to Canada not to escape some sort of hell as many ignorant posters seem to believe.

To me, national pride is just sooo overrated. The bottom line is that Chan can't even find enough finanicala support for his training. And you want him to be 'grateful', for what? For putting his parents deeply in debt? I remember Craig Butin had the same story. His parents had to put the 2nd mortgage on their house to support his skating. This is sad reality.

 

[skateluvr]

I don't even like Patrick Chan but this debate is ridiculous. Chan's parents were from Hong Kong, a quite prosperous place!! His parents emigrated to Canada not to escape some sort of hell as many ignorant posters seem to believe.

To me, national pride is just sooo overrated. The bottom line is that Chan can't even find enough finanicala support for his training. And you want him to be 'grateful', for what? For putting his parents deeply in debt? I remember Craig Butin had the same story. His parents had to put the 2nd mortgage on their house to support his skating. This is sad reality.

1. How about thanking God or his lucky stars for excellent health? Youth is wasted on the young, LOL

 

[skatinginbc]

“I want to say, I’m deeply sorry for what I said,” said Chan. He did not say he was misquoted, but admitted he was emotional in the interview and the reporter spoke to him “at the right time.”http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/12/08/patrick-chan-backs-away-from-comments/

 

[skateflower]

1. How about thanking God or his lucky stars for excellent health? Youth is wasted on the young, LOL

I'm sure he thanks God for that. If I were him, I wouldn't hesitate a second to jump ship if I could find my market value somewhere else. This is just business and is it really that difficult to understand?

 

[OS]

If earning money is in his priority, shouldn't he have some interest in how well he does in competitions? More medals ==> more prize money and more fame ==> more endorsement or ice shows ==> more money to pay off his parents' debt.......
It baffles me when he talked about financial burden of his parents on one hand and his lack of interest in competition outcomes on the other.

I don't think it is simple case of admiration and appreciation he want, but more of what he actually need.

Put yourself in his shoe, you burdened the entire family to be in debt for years sacrificing personal time and finance for a career which you have reached the pinnacle of success only to find out that they are unlikely to recuperate their investment, and actually your family is likely to be still in debt and to continue to be in debt to finance this so called 'career'.

It seems a lost cause because medals themselves actually don't mean that much financially compare to the amount of work and effort that goes into it. How much is show appearance worth? $1k-$2k a day? So you skate around 6 times a year? (Average 3 shows a year.)

The prize money alone is peanuts and won't even cover his training expense, time and effort. (If he came any lesser than 1st, him + his mum would be better off working at McDonalds full time for the same amount of time they spent on training.)

WC Championship Prize money 2011

1st place US$ 45,000
2nd place US$ 27,000
3rd place US$ 18,000
4th place US$ 13,000
5th place US$ 10,000
6th place US$ 7,000
7th place US$ 6,000
8th place US$ 5,000
9th place US$ 3,500
10th place US$ 3,000

 

[Spun Silver]

It's just a shame that all this is happening right before the GPF. I hope Patrick is able to put it aside and concentrate on the ice. I wish him two great skates!

 

[Violet Bliss]

IP, I have no part in the development of Patrick Chan the skater or Patrick Chan the young man. He is however a favorite subject of my interest in mindsets, particularly those of the highly successful, one reason being, of course, his complete openness. He is an overachiever and an admirable true champion with many contributing qualities I like to observe. He has his weaknesses that are hard for him to overcome, just as there are skills and winning attitude that are so natural and easy for him to pick up. That's how we are all made, with strengths and weaknesses, excelling easily in some things and struggling in others. Sometimes a strength and a weakness are the same thing, contributing to the success while hampering another aspect of life. Something a person just has to learn certain thing the hard way, or never, no matter how smart and successful he is. There are a core personality and core values that are so ingrained that we may modify them over a life time but never really change them in any fundamental manner.

Patrick the skater is constantly learning from his every experience and he's a great and extremely fast learner, contributing to his quick and amazing success. He is not into complaining or explaining but usually lets his actions and performances answer the critics. He is tough and has wisely learned at his young age not to dwell on and waste his energy on the negatives. However, he also gets very emotional at times, naturally and understandably, without revealing it. Sometimes we find out later and I suspect there are important personal feelings he keeps to himself. We are all human, even the tough competitive champion who never lets them see him cry.

All in all, I have faith in his toughness to get him through his skating career and life in general.

Do you know we have to be careful of what we think and say because our thoughts and words are prophecies? I have many examples to demonstrate this from personal to national, but the most relevent one is when Patrick said after the SC win that his goal was to get to the GPF but it didn't have to be pretty. He would accept ugly as long as he got there. Well, he didn't get there prettily but he got there. Prophecy fulfilled.

As for his new detachment from winning and pleasing everybody, in a way that is a winning way. We don't get what we are too anxious to get but what we want but are not overly attached to usually comes more easily. Patrick has goals that if achieved, and I believe he will achieve them, will make him a winner even if winning is not a direct goal. Right now he seems to crave artistic freedom and expression, so in a way he frees himself even with the COP constraints and audience's expectations. Yet if he succeeds in his goal of pleasing and satisfying himself, he will have pleased the fans. It's a different way of working the mind, certainly different from how he worked it before. He is using his most recent and spetacular accomplishments to free himself and to achieve higher goals with a completely different, even opposite mindset as he always set a higher goal for himself, else he is done. Guess what, I think it's a very intelligent way, even spiritual.