The truth behind Patrick Chan's China crisis

[chuckm]

Patrick is not responsible for anyone's hardship in their own lives. I question whether it is right to be bitter to any skaters because one's own life is bitter? If you use the "poor and can't afford food" (By the way, it's the first time ever I've heard this kind of claims on figure skating boards.) measurement to measure skaters, every skater is "rich". Figure skating is rich people's sport. Talking about skaters, one should put the topic into perspective. Or there is no need to talk about it at all.

Patrick of course is not responsible for others' hardships. But he is truly naive if he thinks it's not fair that he and his family have to 'sacrifice' for the sake of his career, and that he is due more support. He wants the same adulation and financial rewards that come with excelling in other sports, but he fails to recognize that he is in a niche sport that is waning in popularity day by day. If he wanted to be a rich and famous superstar, he should have gone into hockey or rock music.

 

[Dragonlady]

It's interesting to consider as well that the flourishing group of ice dancers in Detroit/Ann Arbor/Canton are training in an area with probably much lower living expenses than skaters face in, say, Toronto, Boston, New York, or California. Is this a factor in their success?

If you're talking about the Sphilband/Zueva school, here's a dose of reality. The Russian Federation considered sending skaters there but balked at the costs. Unlimited ice time, training with Cirque du Soleil acrobats for their lifts, the costs of maintaining a residence there in addition to their actual homes. Tessa Virtue's father, who is a lawyer in London, Ontario, said that the total bill runs to 6 figures.

 

[dorispulaski]

It is fine to have a patrick cheering thread for the kids/adults who need that. No problem. Great idea. But for Doris to characterize those who criticise his performances (he's admittedly the best in the world when he is on his feet) or are tired of his spoiled little kid behavior and say so, as 'haterz' is so wrong. I'm sure she knows no one hates a kid who is a source of entertainment for most of us.

For what it is worth (or not), the opposite of "ubers" is "haterz" in skating fan forums. I do not think people who dislike Chan's skating and are not too thrilled by his public announcements are necessarily people who hate him, in the old-fashioned, sharpen up the knife, fashion.

It's just an expression, not a moral judgment.

You can tell it's fanspeak by the deliberate mispelling.

So as a Chan uber really, really likes Chan, the haterz really, really dislike Chan.

 

[Brenda]

If you're talking about the Sphilband/Zueva school, here's a dose of reality. The Russian Federation considered sending skaters there but balked at the costs. Unlimited ice time, training with Cirque du Soleil acrobats for their lifts, the costs of maintaining a residence there in addition to their actual homes. Tessa Virtue's father, who is a lawyer in London, Ontario, said that the total bill runs to 6 figures.

you are right, but I think that was partly the point of eyria's question...sure their total training costs are very expensive, but they'd be even more expensive in an area with higher living expenses...perhaps because they are able to save a little on living expenses compared to other cities, they are able to spend that money on trainers, acrobatic consultants, ice time...even at 6 figures, every thousand $ saved counts.

 

[Spun Silver]

For what it is worth (or not), the opposite of "ubers" is "haterz" in skating fan forums. I do not think people who dislike Chan's skating and are not too thrilled by his public announcements are necessarily people who hate him, in the old-fashioned, sharpen up the knife, fashion.

It's just an expression, not a moral judgment.

You can tell it's fanspeak by the deliberate mispelling.

So as a Chan uber really, really likes Chan, the haterz really, really dislike Chan.

But I'm not sure there are many (any?) posters here who really, really dislike Chan.

There are quite a few who find some of his wins controversial in a way that raises questions about the COP. (Is Sonia Bianchetti a Chan hater?) Many also find certain of the things that come out of his mouth immature and misguided. These aren't examples of "really, really disliking" him (as in "Chan is a lousy skater and should go away") Most of it is criticism and discussion of Chan news (as in "Chan is a great skater but he shouldn't have won with three falls," or "Chan is a talented young man but in that interview he sounds immature").

This is simply not the same as the opposite of an uber. Ubers adore him and won't tolerate any criticism of him. IMO, most GS posters admire his skating but don't think he is above criticism.

In announcing the other thread, Doris, you divided the forum into ubers and haterz and said there were plenty of threads for the latter while a "safe place" was needed for the others. Sure sounds like a moral judgment to me to say that some posters need a sanctuary to protect them from other (abusive) posters. I find it rather insulting to imply that if I'm not an uber I'm a hater. Just because an uber accuses everyone else of hate doesn't make it so.

 

[Boeing787]

Patrick of course is not responsible for others' hardships. But he is truly naive if he thinks it's not fair that he and his family have to 'sacrifice' for the sake of his career, and that he is due more support. He wants the same adulation and financial rewards that come with excelling in other sports, but he fails to recognize that he is in a niche sport that is waning in popularity day by day. If he wanted to be a rich and famous superstar, he should have gone into hockey or rock music.

The turth is if he were a Chinese or Japanese or Korean, he'd make more and his parents'd sacrifice less. It's the citizenship, not the career, that makes the difference. But he was naive to tell this to a reporter.

 

[Mathman]

I am more keenly aware of reality than most.

Me, too!

That's why I like figure skating. It is a fantasy world far removed from reality's keen blade.

Nothing like a retreat into Michelleland via Youtube to renew the spirit.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Me, too!

That's why I like figure skating. It is a fantasy world far removed from reality's keen blade.

Nothing like a retreat into Michelleland via Youtube to renew the spirit.

So true.

Also it's great to observe skaters, a bunch of attractive young people with such positive attributes. The world will certainly be a much better place if more people are like them.

If I want to see ugly, I wouldn't choose to look at young successful figure skaters.

Nonetheless, it's not all so ugly and hopeless out there. Every single day is heaven or hell on Earth for some people. It has always been that way. But we are going through a collective change, a change of eras, with both pain of death and pain of birth, thus the chaos. Hang on for the ride. We chose to be alive at this time for our soul experiences. Quite exciting from that perspective.

I'm also keenly aware of realities as illusions.

 

[Olympia]

Me, too!

That's why I like figure skating. It is a fantasy world far removed from reality's keen blade.

Nothing like a retreat into Michelleland via Youtube to renew the spirit.

Yippee! Save a spot for me, Math! (And probably Doris.)

I'm glad Doris put up a second thread, because we've been talking about some interesting ideas on there, including blade control (not the knife blade of hatred, I hasten to add) and who's known for it (of course Michelle has come up, and Kurt, and John Curry).

We've all known Doris for long enough to be certain that she didn't mean to insult any fan or to imply that if one isn't an uber, one is a hater. She used the terms lightly and in the spirit of good sport fun. I myself am not an uber of Patrick (though I like his skating), simply because my heart belongs to Daisuke, but I know that Doris is not thereby implying that I am a hater. And one day I could become a more ardent Chan fan, considering how he improves from season to season. I'm glad Patrick does have ubers. Skaters give their all to this sport, and for that reason I hope every skater has at least one uber-fan, and preferably many.

As for his remarks about money, one has to remember that this is a kid who lives a rarefied life and might not know how he comes across to the ordinary mass of us working stiffs. He makes some flippant remark from deep within his back brain, far away from the lobe that governs executive function, and people take it as a pronouncement on the economic system. Yes, I wish he were less of a motormouth, but not everyone has that inner censor. And look how many of us fans complain when a more guarded skater (Michelle and Kristi come to mind) utters only polite phrases and never reveals any frustrations or inner thoughts. There's no pleasing us!

I don't know Patrick personally. But I can guess from my years of life experience that in some ways he's kind of immature in terms of social interaction, partly due to temperament but largely as a result of a hermetically sealed life. He spends hours every day training. He is surrounded by adults (adults whose job it is to give him orders, no less). His every move is regulated, including what he eats. He's told to have confidence in himself and to think that he's special. (Which he certainly is, in many respects.) And then reporters want words of wisdom from him! How smart did I sound at his age? Yipes--I'm so glad there's nothing recorded of me from that stage of my life. This is why I tend to cut him some slack.

 

[chuckm]

The turth is if he were a Chinese or Japanese or Korean, he'd make more and his parents'd sacrifice less. It's the citizenship, not the career, that makes the difference. But he was naive to tell this to a reporter.

If he was born and brought up in mainland China (not Hong Kong, where his parents came from) he and his parents would sacrifice MUCH more. His parents would have to give him up so he could move away to a dormitory where he would have to give up making any choices at all so he could train.

In Japan, they'd have to sacrifice as well. Japan is one of the most expensive places to live in the world. The 900-sf condo in Toronto would seem like a palace compared to the space they could get in Tokyo for the same price. I recall reading on the boards just a year or so ago that Fumie Suguri's parents had exhausted all their savings supporting her skating. Once a skater gets to the elite level, yes, there are more opportunities for sponsorships and shows. But getting to the elite level is expensive and just as much of a drain on the parents. I imagine that the same is true for Korea.

 

[Boeing787]

If he was born and brought up in mainland China (not Hong Kong, where his parents came from) he and his parents would sacrifice MUCH more. His parents would have to give him up so he could move away to a dormitory where he would have to give up making any choices at all so he could train.

In Japan, they'd have to sacrifice as well. Japan is one of the most expensive places to live in the world. The 900-sf condo in Toronto would seem like a palace compared to the space they could get in Tokyo for the same price. I recall reading on the boards just a year or so ago that Fumie Suguri's parents had exhausted all their savings supporting her skating. Once a skater gets to the elite level, yes, there are more opportunities for sponsorships and shows. But getting to the elite level is expensive and just as much of a drain on the parents. I imagine that the same is true for Korea.

That's the difference. When a skator becomes world champion, his parents' sacrifice should get paid off. It's the case in China, Japan, and Korea, but not in Canada. That's why Patrick was disappointed, and he is justified!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Unsheltered from the safe ghetto, here's another Chan news and interview to pick on:

Patrick Chan: QMI Agency Canadian Male Athlete of the Year with video.

 

[Tonichelle]

That's the difference. When a skator becomes world champion, his parents' sacrifice should get paid off. It's the case in China, Japan, and Korea, but not in Canada. That's why Patrick was disappointed, and he is justified!

But why aren't the sponsors knocking down his door? They did in the 1980s for Browning (before the "golden age" of the 90s). They did for Buttle, IIRC, so why not Chan. Could it be because the economy is so poor? Or is it because his management hasn't secured the right endorsements. Why does it have to be the government? Where is Diet Coke (Browning's main sponsor)?

 

[Boeing787]

But why aren't the sponsors knocking down his door? They did in the 1980s for Browning (before the "golden age" of the 90s). They did for Buttle, IIRC, so why not Chan. Could it be because the economy is so poor? Or is it because his management hasn't secured the right endorsements. Why does it have to be the government? Where is Diet Coke (Browning's main sponsor)?

I guess it's easier to blame the government? Hey, we all did it at least once in our life, admit it!

 

[demarinis5]

Unsheltered from the safe ghetto, here's another Chan news and interview to pick on:

Patrick Chan: QMI Agency Canadian Male Athlete of the Year with video.

Be nice.

 

[chuckm]

That's the difference. When a skator becomes world champion, his parents' sacrifice should get paid off. It's the case in China, Japan, and Korea, but not in Canada. That's why Patrick was disappointed, and he is justified!

How can it be the case in China, if the parents don't pay anything for the skater's training but only get to see their child once a year? How can you ever "pay off" a sacrifice like that?

In Japan and China, the $$ comes from corporate sponsors and show appearances, not from the government. Many North American skaters travel to Europe and Asia to participate in skating shows there, since NA has only SOI (which is reportedly on the brink of extinction). Figure skating doesn't enjoy the popularity in North America that is has in the far East, so corporate sponsors don't funnel much money to figure skaters. In Canada, hockey players are the big deal and get the big sponsorships.

Again, if Chan would just learn to deal with the media (i.e. not destroy his image by saying the wrong things publicly) he might attract more sponsors. Corporate sponsors are unwilling to invest money with controversial athletes. Chan might try thinking very carefully when speaking before the media. That might pay off a lot more than whining about his family's finances.

 

[skatinginbc]

In announcing the other thread, Doris, you divided the forum into ubers and haterz and said there were plenty of threads for the latter while a "safe place" was needed for the others. Sure sounds like a moral judgment to me to say that some posters need a sanctuary to protect them from other (abusive) posters. I find it rather insulting to imply that if I'm not an uber I'm a hater. Just because an uber accuses everyone else of hate doesn't make it so.

I felt the same as well. I didn't like "ubers" vs. "haterz" dichotomous division. When I read it, I was thinking: Am I seen as a hater now? Should I start hating Chan so that I can fit into that group? "We have plenty of threads for Chan haterz," Doris said. Where is it? Where is the "safe place" for "haterz" where they are protected from ubers' attacks? I don't mind too much if a Chan uber created a fan thread, but for a forum moderator to do so and make such a "sanctuary" announcement, it seems to suggest a moral overtone, at least to my ear.

 

[jettasian]

Figure skating doesn't enjoy the popularity in North America that is has in the far East, so corporate sponsors don't funnel much money to figure skaters. In Canada, hockey players are the big deal and get the big sponsorships.

Again, if Chan would just learn to deal with the media (i.e. not destroy his image by saying the wrong things publicly) he might attract more sponsors. Corporate sponsors are unwilling to invest money with controversial athletes. Chan might try thinking very carefully when speaking before the media. That might pay off a lot more than whining about his family's finances.

It's true that Figure Skating is not as popular in NA as it was before. Canadians are only obsessed about Hockey, nothing else. And I think that's part of what Chan said.

So you think if Chan talks sweat talks to the media, the sponsors will pour in? I don't think so. As you said it, FS is just not that popular. It's just an easy way to blame that it's Chan's own fault for having a big mouth. Haterz always find something negative about Chan and this is just another example.

 

[jettasian]

Spun Silver;602755]But I'm not sure there are many (any?) posters here who really, really dislike Chan.

You don't want to go there. I can easily name dozen of names here which i won't.

I felt the same as well. I didn't like "ubers" vs. "haterz" dichotomous division. When I read it, I was thinking: Am I seen as a hater now? Should I start hating Chan so that I can fit into that group? "We have plenty of threads for Chan haterz," Doris said. Where is it? Where is the "safe place" for "haterz" where they are protected from ubers' attacks? I don't mind too much if a Chan uber created a fan thread, but for a forum moderator to do so and make such a "sanctuary" announcement entails a moral overtone, at least to my ear.

You don't need to read posts like "gosh, I hate Chan" to feel that that poster's a hater. Some posters are very obvious. And you asked where are haterz threads? Haven't you read many Chan threads with tones of negatives, and some even tried to find article quotes and created threads about it? I even saw one which I think the Mod had deleted.

 

[Boeing787]

How can it be the case in China, if the parents don't pay anything for the skater's training but only get to see their child once a year? How can you ever "pay off" a sacrifice like that?

In Japan and China, the $$ comes from corporate sponsors and show appearances, not from the government. Many North American skaters travel to Europe and Asia to participate in skating shows there, since NA has only SOI (which is reportedly on the brink of extinction). Figure skating doesn't enjoy the popularity in North America that is has in the far East, so corporate sponsors don't funnel much money to figure skaters. In Canada, hockey players are the big deal and get the big sponsorships.

Again, if Chan would just learn to deal with the media (i.e. not destroy his image by saying the wrong things publicly) he might attract more sponsors. Corporate sponsors are unwilling to invest money with controversial athletes. Chan might try thinking very carefully when speaking before the media. That might pay off a lot more than whining about his family's finances.

The parents have to sacrifice one way or the other: financially or emotionally. Which way is better is in the beholders' eyes.

As another poster has pointed out, talking sweet to media won't help Patrick much. Kim Yuna wouldn't be Queen Yuna if she were Canadian. Patrick is in the wrong country, period.