Yes, I would be satisfied that the person who did three easy imps and fell on his quad should beat the skater who did a successful quad but fell three times later in the program on easy elements. I would be surprised if anyone felt otherwise, under any system.
Are we talking about long programs or short programs here?
In a short program, it's unlikely that jump content like 4T(clean)+3T(fall), 3A(fall), 3Lz(fall) or even 4T, 3A(fall), 3Lz+3T(fall), FSSp(fall) would beat 4T(fall), 3A(clean), 3Lz+3T(clean).
In a long program . . . Are the two skaters attempting the exact same jump content (and are approximately equal on spins, steps, basic skating, and presentation as well)?
In that case, do you mean something like
4T(fall), 3A+2T, 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz, 3Lo, 3S (8 clean triples, repeat 3A and 3Lz)
vs.
4T, 3A+2T, 3A, 3Lz+3T(fall), 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz, 3Lo(fall), 3S(fall)
Here the first skater has completed more content so we'd expect him to earn more TES points for jumps, unless the jumps he stood up one were really bad and the jumps the second guy stood up on were really good.
But what if the content is not the same?
Maybe 4T(fall), 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3F+2T+2T, 3F, 3Lo, 3S+2Lo, 3T (8 completed triples, repeat jumps 3F and 3T)
vs.
4T, 4T+2T, 3A+3T(fall), 3A, 3Lz+1Lo+3F, 3Lz(fall), 3S+3Lo(fall), 3Lz (2 completed quads plus 6 clean triples including two 3A and two 3Lz)
In that case the second skater, the guy who fell three times, attempted more difficult jump content and completed more difficult jumps, if you consider the first jump of a combination completed with a fall on the second.
Which brings up the question of how you consider falls on the ends of combinations. Usually the jump the skater actually fell on was an easier one, but the combination itself may have had a higher base value than anything else in the program. Do you give credit for the first jump or wipe out all value for the combination?
But if the question is really what I want to see, I would want to see those two guys competing for the bronze in a four-man field, while the winner did 4T, 3A, 3Lz+3T (28.1) and the silver medalist did 3A+3T, 3Lz, 3Lo (22.9).
Sure. We all hope for good performances -- the skaters too. But, as they say, ice is slippery. Especially for skaters challenging themselves to execute as many elements and transitional moves at the top of their ability within the same 4 or 4.5-minute program.
When a skater really pushes the difficulty envelope and succeeds, it's a magical moment. But, by nature, rare.
Then the question is do we want the rules to encourage skaters to challenge themselves in that way (the figure skating equivalent of higher faster stronger) or do we want them to play safe and skate cleaner.
That is a good point. The CoP is quite unfriendly to jump combinations.
Pretty much, yeah.
As Hurrah has been arguing on this thread, the only thing you gain by doing a triple triple of any kind is that you get to score an extra double Axel at the end.
If you're a man who can do six different triples and maybe one kind of quad, as well as two or more triple-triples, yes, that is true.
If you're a man who can't even do all the triples (axel being the one most likely missing), then even without doing any triple-triples you'll end up with at least one jump pass with no planned triple, and if you do include a 3-3 or two you'll have more open jump passes to fill with doubles.
If you're a lady (or novice man) who can do five different triples (no 3A), then it's a big advantage to be able to do a 3-3 combo because you only get 7 jump passes, you need to include a 2A somewhere, and you'd like to include 7 total triples plus that double axel in those 7 slots, which requires that you combine two of the triples or one of the triples and the 2A in the same slot.
If you're a lady who can do six different triples including 3A, maybe you'd like to do a total of 8 triples in your 7 jump slots, which requires combining two of them. Of course, not even Midori Ito or Mao Asada ever actually did 8 triples in the same program. But someday some lady will want to try.
If you're a senior man who can do two different kinds of quads and six kinds of triples, then by repeating two of the above you could include as many as ten difficult (triple/quad) jumps in your 8 jump passes, but only if you include two triple-triple or quad-triple combinations.
In short programs (junior or senior, male or female) you're always better off if you are able to do triple-triple than if you can't do one.
I think he could do the old combo but he doesnt do the flip anymore. I used to like his flip, it was not a huge as Joubert's but it looked effortless. And I dont know if it worths this combo now.
)
I also have never concerned myself with your opinions much.
hwell:
