Brilliance and perfection

[mskater93]

And a girl who pointed her toes when doing triples. She had great edges. One could not do the spirals, the charlotte spiral or her I spins without great control. I don't get it. And that turn she does holding one foot up has never been done well by anone but her. I never heard once a commentator saying she had "weak edges" or you comments.

Spirals are learned very early in skating (spirals on a flat and on shallow basic edges are in the basic skills levels). Just because a person can do a 180 degree split doesn't make the spiral well-edged. Almost every Charlotte is on a flat (including Kwan's in the short little segment she used to do it as a transition) although I will give Caroline Zhang a TON of credit (along with Stephanie Lechler at Upper Great Lakes Regionals a few years ago) as Caroline and Stephanie both learned to do a change of edge Charlotte spiral (which is scary as heck!). Sasha never had deep edges, as DL pointed out, although her edging did improve throughout her career and was at least adequate in 06. Edging has no bearing on a spin or spin position, spins are about momentum and being able to counteract momentum to get in certain positions (like her I spin). The statue of liberty turn she did was also on a flat (with a skid-stop to change from back to front). In the same way that commentators act surprised that a skater they like got downgrades under IJS and can't understand how they got such a low score, commentators never mentioned her poor edge quality and comparative lack of speed.

 

[gkelly]

I attended Champions on Ice in 2000. Of the ladies I saw that day,

Baiul and Bonaly were very very fast. Not necessarily refined, but very fast across the ice.

Kwan, Bobek, Hughes, Slutskaya, and Hamill filled the ice, with varying degrees of good speed and edges.

Cohen was quite slow and almost never skated past the hockey blue lines toward the ends of the ice -- maybe once or twice to set up a toe jump. In that company, on that day, she did not look like a senior-level skater. Hughes did.


(Sorry If I'm forgetting someone else who was there)

 

[Mathman]

(Sorry If I'm forgetting someone else who was there)

Irina Grigorian!

 

[seniorita]

Plushy at 16 with bowl haircut and attitude. my fav performance from then
The famous Lambiel exhibition:yay:
Hanyu with firebird costume and bowl haircut too. And it is good he has chosen all the warhorses at the beginning of his career.

 

[shine]

Sasha was tiny but there was nothing juniorish about her. And a girl who pointed her toes when doing triples. She had great edges. One could not do the spirals, the charlotte spiral or her I spins without great control. I don't get it. And that turn she does holding one foot up has never been done well by anone but her. I never heard once a commentator saying she had "weak edges" or you comments. I'm ?:think:

But to be a great senior skater, it takes more than perfectly pointed toes. She had great edges, relative to whom? The turn she does holding one foot up you mentioned I believe is the fan spiral where she does a backward outside three turn. IMO it's not a good move for her at all because she has no ride-out after the turn.

If you look closely at Sasha's spirals, they were on very, very shallow edges. The positions were great, but the edges were not. Her charlotte was often just on a flat. She also constantly lost control of her edges, which I think is half the reason why she fell so much, she just could not hold landing edges for her life and many of her landings were shaky. Of course, the American commentators will not say anything is wrong with her, but I was reading someone's blog who attended and analyzed every US National and Worlds in the US from like 1990-2006ish and they always commented on how Sasha's spiral was gorgeous but on almost a flat edge.

Charlotte is supposed to be on a flat.

Not to dispute the fact that she had shallower edges than quite a few top skaters competing against her, but what does her falling on the jumps have to do with edge quality? If anything it has more to do with the control and technique of her jumps, and her nerves.


Lambiel at 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVH-UWB4EaM
Deanna Stellato at 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym68Lnj0xu0
Lu Chen at 15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaOouSXA_Q not a perfect skate, but what a talent she was! Coming from a country that had so little exposure to figure skating or any experienced coach, she was the Yuna Kim of her days.

 

[Dragonlady]

I always thought that Dick Button did Sasha a great disservice in 2000 and 2001 by telling his audience that “Sasha has it all” when she really didn’t. Worse still, Sasha seemed to believe her press clippings and didn’t work on those technical deficiencies until she started training under Tarasova.

Speed, edges, and the exits to her elements were problematic. She landed her jumps on the flat and turned it into an edge. Even her much praised spirals weren’t all that. Yes the position was spectacular, but the spiral traveled in a straight line (if it had been on an edge, it would have curved), wobbled, lost speed and had very poor ice coverage.

Sasha improved her edges under Tarasova, but it was Robin Wagner who really got her down into the ice. If Sasha had stayed longer with Robin and trained the way Wagner wanted to, I think she would have won Worlds. By the end of her competitive career, Sasha’s edges had improved but she still had the weakest basic skating of any of the top ladies.

People think that it was Sasha’s head that caused her to fall and never win the big titles, other than the GPF, but I’m of the belief that it was her feet that were the problem.

 

[Buttercup]

The famous Lambiel exhibition:yay:

I was tempted to post that myself, earlier. It is too cute. But "famous Lambiel exhibition" actually brings something else to mind - though that would be more of an infamous Lambiel exhibition, so maybe not.

Next: 17 year old Aliona Savchenko, then with Stas Morozov, at the 2001 Europeans. Remember how everyone used to skate to Man in the Iron Mask before Yags took it out of circulation for a decade or so? I can link to the same program when she was still 16, but the video quality won't be as good. Anyway, Galina Kukhar sure did know what she was doing with her pairs girls.

One year later, here's 17 year old Brian Joubert on the way to a bronze medal at his first Europeans.

And moving on to 2003, we have 15 year old Carolina Kostner in her 4th place Euros debut. She made a fan out of me.

 

[shine]

I was tempted to post that myself, earlier. It is too cute. But "famous Lambiel exhibition" actually brings something else to mind - though that would be more of an infamous Lambiel exhibition, so maybe not.

IIRC, Lambiel has specifically said that he does not want to video being posted around the internet. That's how bad it is!

 

[Buttercup]

IIRC, Lambiel has specifically said that he does not want to video being posted around the internet. That's how bad it is!

It's been on Youtube forever. I applaud Stephane's originality, but yeah, I can see why he would be embarrassed for people to see it now.

He told Absolute Skating a few months ago that it might be fun to reinterpret his 1997 program. But he may have been joking.

 

[seniorita]

It's been on Youtube forever. I applaud Stephane's originality, but yeah, I can see why he would be embarrassed for people to see it now.

you dont mean the 1997 ex, you mean the other one ?Legend says Johnny Weir was inspired for his Gaga programs with fur tale from it.

 

[blue dog]

A 17-year old Tessa Virtue and a 19-year old Scott Moir:

http://youtu.be/w1zoxs6Hxjw

 

[Dragonlady]

I'll go you one better. This is Virtue & Moir at 2004 Canadians where they won the Junior Championship. They were 14 and 16. Note the look on Shae-Lynne's face as she's watching them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNpvTtoWlJM

I first saw this dance at Thornhill in August of 2003 and was gobsmacked at their obvious talent.

And here's Charlie & Meryl from 1999 in Thornhill. I don't know how old they were but again, the talent is obvious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjpZeAEqIY

 

[lavender]

Loved Plush's presentation when he was younger. I was excited to see how he would mature but then as he got older things didn't go into that direction. He does has presence for sure but I don't love his presention anymore.

 

[dorispulaski]

Dragonlady, Meryl was born on January 1st, 1987, so at Thornhill, (which I believe is a summer competition) in the summer of 1999, she would have been 12 years old. Charlie would have been 11, as he was born October 24, 1987.

And, yes, D&W and V&M as youngters were both appealing, and obviously very, very talented

 

[sillylionlove]

Those were great videos! Even at a young age Davis and White were so talented! Other then the juvenile lifts...their speed and edging was amazing at that age.

 

[Olympia]

Wow, those videos of V/M and D/W are stunning. Absolutely phenomenal.

 

[skateluvr]

3 words...Mao at 15. And for tiny wonders Caroline Zhang and Mira Nagasu. Both have had ups and dows but they were amazing at 14. As was Rachael Flatt. She was just amazing in her consistency. I love seeing these videos. Tessa and Scott are such handsome kids. The beautiful ice dancers always make me think beauty counts a lot for female dancers. Youth of course, has its flowering.

 

[seniorita]

Mao at TEB 2005 is one competition I wish I was there. The program, her presence and dress, everything was perfect!

 

[icefan1005]

Virtue and Moir doing a Fourteen Step way back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n13RcjyX0nw&feature=channel&list=UL

Davis and White with their 2003 FD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_IWtmls8A

 

[deedee1]

Yukina Ota at age 16:

Jr Worlds SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSZCUk9mT38&feature=relmfu

Jr Worlds FP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4W2T4sGAto

EX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZufEzt6xhgw&feature=related

Really a shame injuries forced her into early retirement...