2012 Cup of Russia Pairs FS

[koatcue]

First paragraph: point taken, and I agree.

Second paragraph: Sochi is going to be very bad and very controversial in the figure skating disciplines with pro-Russian skater bias, count on it. The ISU will circle the wagons and defend the Russians. Count on that, too.

Not more than any other host country=\

 

[koatcue]

One judge gave them +3goe for the throw 3S. and they got pozitive GOE on that element. this must be a bad joke. poor S/S

agreed.that's a pity that there is such a blatant judgment((but nethertheless the had to be 1st here...hope they'll improve their fs

 

[Buttercup]

Disagree.The same could be said about last year's Chan=/ imho,of course. In my opinion,but for the mistakes V/T SHOULD have had the best score, about 141-45. I like this program a lot!It's not mediocre or smth=//

I don't think Chan skated particularly well at Worlds last season, but it was not this bad, and his program was more difficult. Under no circumstances should this hot mess have scored anything above 8 in PCS. And V/T's programs from the get-go have been paint by numbers Morozov hack jobs. I wanted to like them, I was very much in favor of this partnership, but they have made extremely disappointing choices regarding their choreography, programs and music. A score over 130 in pairs should go to programs that are well-choreographed and well-performed. This one was neither.

And looking at the endless complaints Trankov makes and his many mistakes, I begin to wonder if Maria Mukhortova might not have been at fault for the problems in that partnership to the degree many people thought.

 

[mikiandorocks]

I think we should take it easy. I believe the OG will be ok. There's always so much scrutinity going on in the OG! Everybody is watching with an eagle eye. Yes, there are problems sometimes. Let's not suffer by antecipation.
Volosozhar & Trankov are a wonderful pair and even with the mistakes they did, the advantage they gained in the SP should be enough to assure them the gold medal anyway. What I don't understand is why there were judges scoring them with 9.75 for performance / execution when they had big mistakes that obviously took away from the general impression and the skaters themselves reflected it during the program. With that said they also got scores as high as 9.75 for interpretation. I agree with that judge that scored them with 7.75 in that segment simply because it reflects what happened on the day!!!

 

[Mao88]

PAIRS FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT

1. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR & Maxim TRANKOV (RUS) - 207.53 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
2. Vera BAZAROVA & Yuri LARIONOV (RUS) - 191.08 Free Skate
3. Caydee DENNEY & John COUGHLIN (USA) - 179.21 Free Skate
4. Paige LAWRENCE & Rudi SWIEGERS (CAN) - 154.16 Free Skate
5. Anastasia MARTIUSHEVA & Alexei ROGONOV (RUS) - 150.15 Free Skate
6. Tiffany VISE & Don BALDWIN (USA) - 143.15 Free Skate
7. Nicole DELLA MONICA & Matteo GUARISE (ITA) - 142.53 Free Skate

 

[let`s talk]

So the term "inflation" was applied to Patrick and what should we create for V&T? Tranflation?

There is no grounds for that. The characteristics of inflation is manipulation of GOE, overscored PCS, taking the rightful wins from the opponents and repeatedness of all these things over and over again. V/T Base Value was higher than their value in SA and way higher than S/S BV is SC. But all three TES wer pretty much the same, i.e. today V/T got lower GOE. They didn't take any rightful win from the opponent today due to low competition. PCS was higher than it should be and the best part is they didn't really need such a favour from judges. They would have won CoR anyway. They understand things very well, you saw their faces in K&C, they were not happy with this overscoring, unlike in case of inflation where the guy doesn't have any problems with that. Such thing as today happened the first time, so repeatedness factor is not available either. Don't worry. Sochi will be fine. Not like SLC or Vancouver.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Not more than any other host country=\

Yes more. Wait and see.

 

[Skater Boy]

There is no grounds for that. The characteristics of inflation is manipulation of GOE, overscored PCS, taking the rightful wins from the opponents and repeatedness of all these things over and over again. V/T Base Value was higher than their value in SA and way higher than S/S BV is SC. But all three TES wer pretty much the same, i.e. today V/T got lower GOE. They didn't take any rightful win from the opponent today due to low competition. PCS was higher than it should be and the best part is they didn't really need such a favour from judges. They would have won CoR anyway. They understand things very well, you saw their faces in K&C, they were not happy with this overscoring, unlike in case of inflation where the guy doesn't have any problems with that. Such thing as today happened the first time, so repeatedness factor is not available either. Don't worry. Sochi will be fine. Not like SLC or Vancouver.

I know this is kind of personal and I am sorry but we should stop use inflation. Otherwise we should start using Kostnerflation, Korpiflation, Ssquared flation, v and t flation, Evan flation, maybe even kwanflation (one could say MK skated the same to whatever music), and allegations of pro bias to Russians or whoever. Well the russian ladies didn't get put on the podium here in their home nation.

I don't think any of us will ever agree and we all have our favourites, bias and perception influenced by our own perceptions and biases

And one of the things in defence of say Korpi is that the judges not the people from all over the world are giving her the high scores. Ditto for Chan and it isn't just Finland or Canada. I know there are some experienced and knowledgeable folks maybe even some real coaches out there or skaters but a lot of us are not at the level of skating or expereinced enough to know all the details of COP or appreciate such things other than aesthethics and jmps but things like edges and nuances of body line, blade control, etc not easy to judge to those of us who are not "pros".

 

[sgower]

I enjoyed the Canadians' performance - they had some interesting transitions. Too bad about the jump issues. I do believe if they want to be contenders they will have to improve technically.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I actually thought the judging of the entire event was questionable.

I would have had DM/G ahead of V/B and M/R, maybe even L/S in the free skate. I also would have had D/C over B/L.

The inflated scores of the Russian pairs were ridiculous.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Well, at least we're prepared. The Voloszhar/Trankov coronation began today.

 

[chuckm]

The rueful looks on V/T's faces after their skate said it all. They knew they had not done a good FS. Then came their marks---yikes! They should only have been maybe 3-4 points ahead of B/L in the FS, not 7 points.

 

[gold12345]

The pairs judging was scandalous today! No way else to describe it. How did they call Denney's 2A underrotated, but not Bazarova's, which was blatantly more underrotated? B/L totally missed their second lift and did not suffer nearly enough in GOE because of it. All of their jumps and throws had noticable errors, yet their marks hardly reflect it. Their 3FTh received marks from -1 to +2. +2s are crazy considering it wasn't a clean element!

The GOE ranged from -2 to +3 (!!!!) for Volosozhar/Trankov's 3STh throw, which landed on 2 feet! Outrageous! Why did they get several -2s for falls?! I know that falls don't have to automatically be given -3, but come on, those were major falls! How did one judge only give -1 for their botched sbs 3S combo? The look on Tatiana's face when the score came up showed that even she knew they were very overscored. How could she not?

Just like at Skate Canada, it continues to baffle my mind that an international panel of judges will inflate scores for the home skaters when they feel it's necessary. But I think this event was even worse than anything that's happened at Skate Canada... This was a very blatant and sad attempt to hold the 2 Russian pairs up. If they had just scored every element fairly, V/T would have still won. D/C and B/L would have flipped, but what would have been so wrong with that? So strange that an international panel of judges acts like this.

The Americans should have filed a complaint... Complaints probably aren't even allowed, but they should be!

 

[StellaCampo]

I would like someone to clarify:
V/T's throws are high and long but if they can't land them decently, should they get credit for the height and length? Are they actually getting credit for that? Eg, height & length +GOE=2, fall -GOE=-3 overall -1 GOE?
Anyone can throw a girl high and long. There is no virtue in it per se.

 

[FSGMT]

The pairs judging was scandalous today! No way else to describe it. How did they call Denney's 2A underrotated, but not Bazarova's, which was blatantly more underrotated? B/L totally missed their second lift and did not suffer nearly enough in GOE because of it. All of their jumps and throws had noticable errors, yet their marks hardly reflect it. Their 3FTh received marks from -1 to +2. +2s are crazy considering it wasn't a clean element!

The GOE ranged from -2 to +3 (!!!!) for Volosozhar/Trankov's 3STh throw, which landed on 2 feet! Outrageous! Why did they get several -2s for falls?! I know that falls don't have to automatically be given -3, but come on, those were major falls! How did one judge only give -1 for their botched sbs 3S combo? The look on Tatiana's face when the score came up showed that even she knew they were very overscored. How could she not?

Just like at Skate Canada, it continues to baffle my mind that an international panel of judges will inflate scores for the home skaters when they feel it's necessary. But I think this event was even worse than anything that's happened at Skate Canada... This was a very blatant and sad attempt to hold the 2 Russian pairs up. If they had just scored every element fairly, V/T would have still won. D/C and B/L would have flipped, but what would have been so wrong with that? So strange that an international panel of judges acts like this.

The Americans should have filed a complaint... Complaints probably aren't even allowed, but they should be!

I actually thought the judging of the entire event was questionable.

I would have had DM/G ahead of V/B and M/R, maybe even L/S in the free skate. I also would have had D/C over B/L.

The inflated scores of the Russian pairs were ridiculous.

I absolutely agree with both of you! The correct scores/placements should have been
1) Volosozhar/Trankov (with a score between 125-126)
2) Denney-Coughlin
3) Bazarova-Larionov (with a PCS around 60, not 4 points higher than D/C with many more mistakes and nothing sèecial in the program itself, excpet being Russians in Russia(!!!), and a < in at least one on the 2As, plus negative or 0 GOEs for their throws!)

 

[koatcue]

I would like someone to clarify:
V/T's throws are high and long but if they can't land them decently, should they get credit for the height and length? Are they actually getting credit for that? Eg, height & length +GOE=2, fall -GOE=-3 overall -1 GOE?
Anyone can throw a girl high and long. There is no virtue in it per se.

Anyone? Ok, let's see how many skaters do that in competition

 

[StellaCampo]

Anyone? Ok, let's see how many skaters do that in competition

Sorry, I meant: "anyone can throw a girl high and long if you don't have to worry about landing her properly". One of the reasons why some men don't throw their partners far may be because they are not certain of landing them.

 

[Buttercup]

Without naming names, we've certainly seen some of the guys throw their female partners like a sack of potatoes. And sometimes the pairs girls are so tiny that it looks like the partner is flinging them across the ice with no great effort. I have no problem with rewarding good technique and execution, but mistakes have to be punished as well. A two-footed landing on a throw does not merit +2 or 3, regardless of whatever other merits the element might have.

 

[demarinis5]

I actually thought the judging of the entire event was questionable.

I would have had DM/G ahead of V/B and M/R, maybe even L/S in the free skate. I also would have had D/C over B/L.

The inflated scores of the Russian pairs were ridiculous.

The pairs judging was scandalous today! No way else to describe it. How did they call Denney's 2A underrotated, but not Bazarova's, which was blatantly more underrotated? B/L totally missed their second lift and did not suffer nearly enough in GOE because of it. All of their jumps and throws had noticable errors, yet their marks hardly reflect it. Their 3FTh received marks from -1 to +2. +2s are crazy considering it wasn't a clean element!

The GOE ranged from -2 to +3 (!!!!) for Volosozhar/Trankov's 3STh throw, which landed on 2 feet! Outrageous! Why did they get several -2s for falls?! I know that falls don't have to automatically be given -3, but come on, those were major falls! How did one judge only give -1 for their botched sbs 3S combo? The look on Tatiana's face when the score came up showed that even she knew they were very overscored. How could she not?

Just like at Skate Canada, it continues to baffle my mind that an international panel of judges will inflate scores for the home skaters when they feel it's necessary. But I think this event was even worse than anything that's happened at Skate Canada... This was a very blatant and sad attempt to hold the 2 Russian pairs up. If they had just scored every element fairly, V/T would have still won. D/C and B/L would have flipped, but what would have been so wrong with that? So strange that an international panel of judges acts like this.

The Americans should have filed a complaint... Complaints probably aren't even allowed, but they should be!

I absolutely agree with both of you! The correct scores/placements should have been
1) Volosozhar/Trankov (with a score between 125-126)
2) Denney-Coughlin
3) Bazarova-Larionov (with a PCS around 60, not 4 points higher than D/C with many more mistakes and nothing sèecial in the program itself, excpet being Russians in Russia(!!!), and a < in at least one on the 2As, plus negative or 0 GOEs for their throws!)

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the the the Judges for the Pairs FS are from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Uzbekistan and Estonia, just saying.......

 

[kappa_1]

This is awful. It is the worst judging of the season...hands down. Can Tranflation become a thing??? Thanks, mikiandorocks!

I am a big S/S fan, and although I viewed this team originally as a threat I was super excited that another team would push S/S to become more consistent, and would be happy if V/T wins Sochi if they outperform S/S. But now I am afraid that V/T will win even with a crappy skate like they had today. I thought the program would maaaaaybe get over 118. But 130+!?!?!? I want whatever meds the judges must be high on.