2012 TEB Ladies Short Program SP

[Mao88]

LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

1. Julia LIPNITSKAYA (RUS) - 63.55 Short Program
2. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 63.09 Short Program
3. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 58.26
4. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 54.83
5. Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA (RUS) - 54.50
6. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 52.61
7. Christina GAO (USA) - 52.55
8. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 48.86
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 45.19
10. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 43.15

 

[let`s talk]

Wagner: I don't like her much so what is there to say apart from « nice 3 loop ». It was actually the 1st time that I saw her Red Violin SP. Horrible music cuts. This has to be the worst program I've seen on that wonderful theme.

I agree with that. There are some repetitive moves, similar to her last season's Swan, and not that's interesting in whole. Does she know what Red Violin is about? She was kind of mechanical.
Julia was rather childish and robotoic, but technically strong. She is 14 only. Liza did rather well for her, considering the problem he has been dealing with this season.

 

[Selene]

Ashley is technically inferior to Julia. Julia deserved the lead today, as Ashley had no 3x3 combination. If Julia skates clean in the LP, she will win

Ashley will win the competition if she skates cleanly. Her PCS score will be much higher than Julia's. And her technical score will be very high as well, because of the quality of her elements. Ashley's jumps have good height and flow out of them. Julia's jumps are difficult - that's it. Her jumps are tiny and her technique is flawed (especially on the 2A). She will lose the ability to rotate difficult jumps when she goes through puberty.

 

[Tonichelle]

I agree with that. There are some repetitive moves, similar to her last season's Swan, and not that's interesting in whole. Does she know what Red Violin is about? She was kind of mechanical.
Julia was rather childish and robotoic, but technically strong. She is 14 only. Liza did rather well for her, considering the problem he has been dealing with this season.

Why is the only acceptable theme for a piece of music, in skating anyway, a literal one?

 

[Art&Sport]

Ashley is technically inferior to Julia. Julia deserved the lead today, as Ashley had no 3x3 combination. If Julia skates clean in the LP, she will win

In your opinion, of course. IMO, Ashley is not "technically inferior." Her skating is head and shoulders above 14-year-old Julia's. Ashley is a well-rounded, mature skater with good jumps, great choreography and wonderful interpretation, as well as top-notch polish and presentation skills. Julia is a precocious youngster who can land jumps, pull her limbs into all kinds of grotesque positions and otherwise fling herself around the ice without interpreting the music at all. With ugly costume and all, Julia at this point, at least to me, seems more suited to performing in a big top circus act. In her sp performance, Julia had obvious problems with the landing of her jumps (even though she landed them, they did not flow out, but seemed more jerky, IMO, likely partly due to her ankle injury). I don't think Julia deserved high GOEs in comparison to Ashley.

Not a fan of Julia or Ashley but I think if Ashley is clean she should win. She skates more mature with better skating skills. Her program is better constructed too.

ITA, absolutely. And I'd feel the same even if I wasn't a fan of Ashley's. The sport is so short-sighted in over-rewarding precocious youngsters, IMHO.

Julia has a 3X3. Besides that, her jumps are small and her 2A is atrocious. Ashley flutzes (so does Julia), but otherwise has a lot of speed, height and flow in her jumps. Julia's spins are better, but not by a mile -- Ashley has strong spins on the whole.

The judges sent the message with such a close score that a clean Julia will not necessarily always beat a clean Ashley. As I pointed out if Ashley just did her spins to level 4 (which is a technical panel issue), which she can do, she would have won the SP. I don't think Julia has it in the bag just yet.

I agree with some of your points, but not all. I don't think Julia has better spins than Ashley at all. I don't think the judges were sending any kind of message, just over-rewarding Julia. It was not Julia's best performance, simply because she did all the elements. Lack of musicality and interpretation and presentation skills should not be so highly rewarded. I'm really wondering why Universal Sports did not post a video of Ashley's performance as the second place finisher and highest placing U.S. lady in the sp! Ashley's performance has a great deal more depth and maturity than 14-year-old Julia's. I was so bored watching Julia fling her way around the ice. I'd much rather re-watch Ashley's performance.

 

[Mao88]

Ashley will win the competition if she skates cleanly. Her PCS score will be much higher than Julia's. And her technical score will be very high as well, because of the quality of her elements. Ashley's jumps have good height and flow out of them. Julia's jumps are difficult - that's it. Her jumps are tiny and her technique is flawed (especially on the 2A). She will lose the ability to rotate difficult jumps when she goes through puberty.

In your opinion, of course. IMO, Ashley is not "technically inferior." Her skating is head and shoulders above 14-year-old Julia's. Ashley is a well-rounded, mature skater with good jumps, great choreography and wonderful interpretation, as well as top-notch polish and presentation skills. Julia is a precocious youngster who can land jumps, pull her limbs into all kinds of grotesque positions and otherwise fling herself around the ice without interpreting the music at all. With ugly costume and all, Julia at this point, at least to me, seems more suited to performing in a big top circus act. In her sp performance, Julia had obvious problems with the landing of her jumps (even though she landed them, they did not flow out, but seemed more jerky, IMO, likely partly due to her ankle injury). I don't think Julia deserved high GOEs in comparison to Ashley.



ITA, absolutely. And I'd feel the same even if I wasn't a fan of Ashley's. The sport is so short-sighted in over-rewarding precocious youngsters, IMHO.



I agree with some of your points, but not all. I don't think Julia has better spins than Ashley at all. I don't think the judges were sending any kind of message, just over-rewarding Julia. It was not Julia's best performance, simply because she did all the elements. Lack of musicality and interpretation and presentation skills should not be so highly rewarded. I'm really wondering why Universal Sports did not post a video of Ashley's performance as the second place finisher and highest placing U.S. lady in the sp! Ashley's performance has a great deal more depth and maturity than 14-year-old Julia's. I was so bored watching Julia fling her way around the ice. I'd much rather re-watch Ashley's performance.

10 of 10 for effort, although I don't agree with any of it!

 

[DianaSelene]

In your opinion, of course. IMO, Ashley is not "technically inferior." Her skating is head and shoulders above 14-year-old Julia's. Ashley is a well-rounded, mature skater with good jumps, great choreography and wonderful interpretation, as well as top-notch polish and presentation skills. Julia is a precocious youngster who can land jumps, pull her limbs into all kinds of grotesque positions and otherwise fling herself around the ice without interpreting the music at all. With ugly costume and all, Julia at this point, at least to me, seems more suited to performing in a big top circus act. In her sp performance, Julia had obvious problems with the landing of her jumps (even though she landed them, they did not flow out, but seemed more jerky, IMO, likely partly due to her ankle injury). I don't think Julia deserved high GOEs in comparison to Ashley.



ITA, absolutely. And I'd feel the same even if I wasn't a fan of Ashley's. The sport is so short-sighted in over-rewarding precocious youngsters, IMHO.



I agree with some of your points, but not all. I don't think Julia has better spins than Ashley at all. I don't think the judges were sending any kind of message, just over-rewarding Julia. It was not Julia's best performance, simply because she did all the elements. Lack of musicality and interpretation and presentation skills should not be so highly rewarded. I'm really wondering why Universal Sports did not post a video of Ashley's performance as the second place finisher and highest placing U.S. lady in the sp! Ashley's performance has a great deal more depth and maturity than 14-year-old Julia's. I was so bored watching Julia fling her way around the ice. I'd much rather re-watch Ashley's performance.

Well, obviously, the judges disagree with you about spins and jumps and choreography and interpretation and performance and the technical side and GOE. Not just Russian judges, not just TEB judges, but also Cup of China judges and Finlandia Trophy judges.

 

[gmyers]

hello that is why Julia did not win the PCS!and the factor of PCS is lower in the SP than the LP ,Julia has no room for error in the LP and can not make one mistake on anything because , the pcs is so much higher, hello.

 

[Mao88]

hello that is why Julia did not win the PCS!and the factor of PCS is lower in the SP than the LP ,Julia has no room for error in the LP and can not make one mistake on anything because , the pcs is so much higher, hello.

But, you forget, Julia's TES advantage will be all the larger in the LP as well and make up for that. Tut tut. Back to the drawing board for you

 

[Art&Sport]

what a fighter Julia is for such a young age

nerves of steel and heart of a lion, she did really well today

Good for Julia to have persevered over her injury. But as far as having "nerves of steel and heart of a lion," she's 14 years old and it's easier to feel no pain and not worry so much about stuff at that age. She really has not much to lose at this stage of her career, and a great deal of experience to gain, so that makes it a bit easier to just go out and skate with no fear, IMO. Skating in general gets tougher as you get older, your body goes through changes, and the pressure builds.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I agree with that. There are some repetitive moves, similar to her last season's Swan, and not that's interesting in whole. Does she know what Red Violin is about? She was kind of mechanical.
Julia was rather childish and robotoic, but technically strong. She is 14 only. Liza did rather well for her, considering the problem he has been dealing with this season.

I love Ashley, she is one of my favorites. But I agree she was a bit mechanical in this program in parts. However, her scores and close second place placement were well deserved.

 

[gmyers]

But, you forget, Julia's TES advantage will be all the larger in the LP as well and make up for that. Tut tut. Back to the drawing board for you

Only if she does it well! She can't be like cup of china. I don't think she can be like COC and defeat ashley.

 

[DianaSelene]

Only if she does it well! She can't be like cup of china. I don't think she can be like COC and defeat ashley.

I think you are right. COC was hers to lose because Mao made quite a few mistakes herself. I think the gold is hers to lose in this competition as well because of the difficult jumps. If she makes one or two small mistakes, I doubt that the judges will let her win.

 

[Mao88]

Only if she does it well! She can't be like cup of china. I don't think she can be like COC and defeat ashley.

Well exactly. If Julia makes the same mistakes in her FS as she did at COC - she will probably lose, as both Ashley and Liza skating clean would probably overtake her. However, if Julia skates clean, she will win.

 

[Art&Sport]

Well, obviously, the judges disagree with you about spins and jumps and choreography and interpretation and performance and the technical side and GOE. Not just Russian judges, not just TEB judges, but also Cup of China judges and Finlandia Trophy judges.

Like I said, ISU judges love to over-reward technically precocious, flexible youngsters. I disagree with a lot of the way the sport is judged today, so no biggy. I think Ashley should be slightly ahead, that's all. And we'll see what happens in the fp. That's figure skating.

Once again, Lip has the advantage anyway in that at her age, she really has nothing to lose at this point. I don't like her costume, choreography or music that much. We don't really see anything that truly defines who Julia is -- it's just a point-getting display of athletic and showy contortionist moves. Those who enjoy that kind of skating, continue to enjoy. Personally, I'm more interested in seeing how Julia will have developed over the next three years, if she's still skating.

 

[jenaj]

Good for Julia to have persevered over her injury. But as far as having "nerves of steel and heart of a lion," she's 14 years old and it's easier to feel no pain and not worry so much about stuff at that age. She really has not much to lose at this stage of her career, and a great deal of experience to gain, so that makes it a bit easier to just go out and skate with no fear, IMO. Skating in general gets tougher as you get older, your body goes through changes, and the pressure builds.

I've seen Julia's skate now. To me, she is a basically a junior skater with a pretty good 3-3 and a lot of flexibility. Her jumps are very small. Gracie Gold's 3-3 is much more impressive, not to mention Yu Na's.

 

[herios]

very true, its Julia's spins that are her trademark not even Ashley can match that

Enjoy them until they last. In a few years those spins will be gone, once she ebecames a true "lady". Now she is a only a child.

 

[DianaSelene]

Like I said, ISU judges love to over-reward technically precocious, flexible youngsters. I disagree with a lot of the way the sport is judged today, so no biggy. I think Ashley should be slightly ahead, that's all. And we'll see what happens in the fp. That's figure skating.

Once again, Lip has the advantage anyway in that at her age, she really has nothing to lose at this point. I don't like her costume, choreography or music that much. We don't really see anything that truly defines who Julia is -- it's just a point-getting display of athletic and showy contortionist moves. Those who enjoy that kind of skating, continue to enjoy. Personally, I'm more interested in seeing how Julia will have developed over the next three years, if she's still skating.

Then if you are dissatisfied, I suggest you try becoming a judge and then you can put the scores that you want. Case closed.

 

[DianaSelene]

Enjoy them until they last. In a few years those spins will be gone, once she ebcames a true "lady". Now she is a only a child.

Such comments are very interesting: "she will lose all that flexibility and spins when she becomes a lady". WHAT? Whoever says that, have you never seen really flexible people in their twenties and thirties? Who says she will lose them? Jumps, yes, but flexibility no.

Example, Kanaeva who was olympic rhythmic gymnastis champion in 2008 was 18 and was quite petite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys6je5-JxU0

In 2012, she won the olympics with a greater build as she became more curvy. Same flexibility, two-time olympic champion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpySa3pwnV0

 

[Art&Sport]

Then if you are dissatisfied, I suggest you try becoming a judge and then you can put the scores that you want. Case closed.

There was never a "case open." This is just a skating message board, not an inquisition or a court of law.

Fans (me included) will always have a beef or two or three with ISU judges and CoP, as long as the world turns.