2013 4CC's Ice Dance SD

[deedee1]

No they got 29.64 at NRW Trophy! So they can go to Worlds.

Thank you so much, Mrs. P!!!
Without you, I have no other ways of knowing their results at NRW Trophy and/or any other competitions, because as for Ice Dance, I normally follow Grand Prix series only. Am so relieved now. Again thanks a lot!

 

[bramweld]

D&W didn't seem very pleased with their skate so I think they were aware of their stumbles. They are not far behind, 0.44 points. The FD will cinch it.

Feel sorry for the Shibs though with their pedigree and work ethic they should be scoring closer to I&K. Both have had injuries this year but the Shibs look to be struggling a bit. It could just be growing pains, adjustment to University life for Maia or Igor is a really, really good technical coach. Hope they can skate much better in the FD.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thank you so much, Mrs. P!!!
Without you, I have no other ways of knowing their results at NRW Trophy and/or any other competitions, because as for Ice Dance, I normally follow Grand Prix series only. Am so relieved now. Again thanks a lot!

Ah, what can I say, I'm a stats nerd. DATA DATA DATA!!!!

 

[Mrs. P]

D&W didn't seem very pleased with their skate so I think they were aware of their stumbles. They are not far behind, 0.44 points. The FD will cinch it.

Feel sorry for the Shibs though with their pedigree and work ethic they should be scoring closer to I&K. Both have had injuries this year but the Shibs look to be struggling a bit. It could just be growing pains, adjustment to University life for Maia or Igor is a really, really good technical coach. Hope they can skate much better in the FD.

I won't feel sorry for them because I know they will get through it. In fact, it's a testament to both of them that they have not fallen completely apart despite all their challenges this year. As I said, I really do think they're undertrained this season because of injuries/school and the fact is there's only so much time and hours in the day.

I think it's good that they're going through this now rather than during the Olympic year. I hope they're able to cut back on school work so they can focus on the Olympic season.

 

[Art&Sport]

I think D and W like last year were better but V and M really have closed the gap. I think D and W have the better programme in SD but V and M have the better FD. I still find D and W have not really grown as artists but you don't get bonuses or deductons for that.

Then that's perception and subjective opinion, just as mine are, because I think Meryl and Charlie challenge themselves to grow every season, and they are superb athletes and artists. The tag that V/M are more artsy smartsy is perception-based. Both teams have pushed each other. I find Meryl & Charlie more authentic in many ways. It will forever be unfair that their Indian OD at the 2010 Olympics did not win. The shame is just that for how good M&C are and for how much they excel, just because both teams are so great, too often subjective and political opinions enter into the judging, as they did last year. I think everyone agreed that Tessa and Scott deserved to be in first place by a little after the Worlds SD last year, but Meryl and Charlie most definitely deserved to win the FD and win overall. No question.

M&C have the better SD this season (and Tessa and Scott have greatly improved theirs). I will concede that M&C have been so great in this SD all season, and there was a very slight lack of sharpness here (it was skated at such a high level at GPF and Nationals), but they were still excellent I thought, and should have scored higher than V/M by a bit more in PCS. It comes down to a matter of preference, and that will be the sad thing for all the heart, hard work and desire that Meryl and Charlie put into their skating. V/M are not always better by a margin at the big events. I'm really tired of seeing Meryl and Charlie dissed due to artsy fartsy snobbery.

 

[wallylutz]

D&W didn't seem very pleased with their skate so I think they were aware of their stumbles. They are not far behind, 0.44 points. The FD will cinch it.

Feel sorry for the Shibs though with their pedigree and work ethic they should be scoring closer to I&K. Both have had injuries this year but the Shibs look to be struggling a bit. It could just be growing pains, adjustment to University life for Maia or Igor is a really, really good technical coach. Hope they can skate much better in the FD.

I think they are not pleased because they are not in first place.

 

[FlattFan]

So I guess the Worlds bronze medal the Shibs got in their DEBUT senior season doesn't count for anything? And they scored 66+ in the SD at that particular competition, so, in essence the Shibs took less time to get to 65+ than C/B.

How long have they been skating together? In essence what? What in essence?
They were amazing in their debut season. Their programs were great, showcased their strength, hid their weaknesses. Now, it's almost like the jig is up for them. No one thinks they are competition anymore. And their PCS and TES are tanking. Just like K/S.
I don't see them at the top level ever again. Don't see them even cracking top 6. And this is coming from someone who's defended them, cheered for them in the past. They are done as a team due to their limited range as performers/dancers.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think many people had unrealistic expectations re: the Ice Dance competition after the ultra inflated U.S. Nationals where even the Silver and Bronze medalists would scored enough to win the Europeans. Hence, in the 4CC prediction thread, pretty much everyone suggested D/W will win this competition. So when D/W suddenly found themselves in 2nd, many people are surprised.

If you think that's bad in Japan, wait till the Worlds - not only it will be in Canada but not just anywhere. It's V/M's highly partisan hometown where the stands will be filled with so many friends, family and people whom they know since they were kids. All the knee-whackers (think like secret agents in the style of Tonya Harding's ex-husband), crosses and burning equipment will be ready (like how to hang a witch and burn!). If D/W can't beat V/M in Japan, chances are not looking good in a month. I mean, this is almost the exact same situation as during the 2009-10 Olympic Season. V/M narrowly lost the GPF in Japan but the margin was so small that you know that at Vancouver Olympics, V/M's win over D/W was almost a foregone conclusion.

I don't think D/W's score was all that inflated. They scored 79+ at U.S. Nationals. They scored 74+ here with a less than perfect skate. Difference is just a few points.

And seriously you're bringing Tonya Harding into this? Oh please, Meryl and Charlie don't work that way.

 

[Art&Sport]

I think they are not pleased because they are not in first place.

Yeah, why should they be on either count? Sure Worlds is in London, Ont., and we shall see what happens. It ain't over till it's over. One thing M&C will always have over Tessa and Scott "I hate WTT" Moir, is CLASS.

 

[auser]

I won't feel sorry for them because I know they will get through it. In fact, it's a testament to both of them that they have not fallen completely apart despite all their challenges this year. As I said, I really do think they're undertrained this season because of injuries/school and the fact is there's only so much time and hours in the day.

I think it's good that they're going through this now rather than during the Olympic year. I hope they're able to cut back on school work so they can focus on the Olympic season.

Thank you Mrs. P for this. IIRC didn't they also change SD programs before the start of this season? They are such lovely skaters, I like to think these challenges are part of the growth process that will spur them higher.

 

[wallylutz]

Then that's perception and subjective opinion, just as mine are, because I think Meryl and Charlie challenge themselves to grow every season, and they are superb athletes and artists. The tag that V/M are more artsy smartsy is perception-based. Both teams have pushed each other. I find Meryl & Charlie more authentic in many ways. It will forever be unfair that their Indian OD at the 2010 Olympics did not win. The shame is just that for how good M&C are and for how much they excel, just because both teams are so great, too often subjective and political opinions enter into the judging, as they did last year. I think everyone agreed that Tessa and Scott deserved to be in first place by a little after the Worlds SD last year, but Meryl and Charlie most definitely deserved to win the FD and win overall. No question.

M&C have the better SD this season (and Tessa and Scott have greatly improved theirs). I will concede that M&C have been so great in this SD all season, and there was a very slight lack of sharpness here (it was skated at such a high level at GPF and Nationals), but they were still excellent I thought, and should have scored higher than V/M by a bit more in PCS. It comes down to a matter of preference, and that will be the sad thing for all the heart, hard work and desire that Meryl and Charlie put into their skating. V/M are not always better by a margin at the big events. I'm really tired of seeing Meryl and Charlie dissed due to artsy fartsy snobbery.

This topic always comes up and while it's true beauty and attractiveness is inherently subjective, it still doesn't change the fact that some actors / actresses are widely considered more appealing to a wider audience than others. The same can be said about D/W. Think about it, has anyone ever seriously wonder Meryl and Charlie are dating? Why is that they used to have trouble with passionate compulsory dances such as tango and etc.? That should tell you they do have a very noticeable issue with their chemistry and passion. They are great athletes but almost too athletic for Ice Dance. Virtue/Moir are very different in that respect. They look like a pair of actor and actress on ice and they fooled many people in thinking they are a couple, in fact, they aren't. So while it's possible some people might find Meryl or Charlie more suitable to their taste, the acting skill displayed by Virtue/Moir is without a doubt significantly superior. The fact that the SD eliminated the CD and is somewhat more flexible in terms of expression vs. the OD really helped D/W. But until D/W can successfully pull off a romantic piece or a dance with passion, V/M will continue to have an edge in this area.

 

[Mrs. P]

How long have they been skating together? In essence what? What in essence?
They were amazing in their debut season. Their programs were great, showcased their strength, hid their weaknesses. Now, it's almost like the jig is up for them. No one thinks they are competition anymore. And their PCS and TES are tanking. Just like K/S.
I don't see them at the top level ever again. Don't see them even cracking top 6. And this is coming from someone who's defended them, cheered for them in the past. They are done as a team due to their limited range as performers/dancers.

They've been together for 9 years, but are you seriously going to hold it against them that they didn't score 65+ fast enough while they were in Juvenille/Intermediate/Novice/Junior? ? I'm saying "in essence" because it took the latter part of their first SENIOR season to get to score in 66+. C/B did it in their second season together, which would be their second senior season.

They've had challenges as a team -- does that mean they should give up? Of course not. I find it silly that people think that two people who are in their third season should just give it up because they had a few challenges along the way. They still have a lot of room to grow, still a lot to learn.

 

[vera01]

I think many people had unrealistic expectations re: the Ice Dance competition after the ultra inflated U.S. Nationals where even the Silver and Bronze medalists scored enough to win the Europeans. Hence, in the 4CC prediction thread, pretty much everyone suggested D/W will win this competition. So when D/W suddenly found themselves in 2nd, many people are surprised.

If you think that's bad in Japan, wait till the Worlds - not only it will be in Canada but not just anywhere. It's V/M's highly partisan hometown where the stands will be filled with so many friends, family and people whom they know since they were kids. All the knee-whackers (think like secret agents in the style of Tonya Harding's ex-husband), crosses and burning equipment will be ready (like how to hang a witch and burn!). If D/W can't beat V/M in Japan, chances are not looking good in a month. I mean, this is almost the exact same situation as during the 2009-10 Olympic Season. V/M narrowly lost the GPF in Japan but the margin was so small that you know that at Vancouver Olympics, V/M's win over D/W was almost a foregone conclusion.

I agree

I still think V/M deserved to win SD today. D/W were shaky today.

 

[wallylutz]

I don't think D/W's score was all that inflated. They scored 79+ at U.S. Nationals. They scored 74+ here with a less than perfect skate. Difference is just a few points.

uh...only a few points you said? 5 points is a lot in Ice Dance at this level. Losing one level on one element doesn't equate to them being scored 5 points less, you are the stats person, be logical here please and don't let your feeling cloud your judgment.

 

[sky_fly20]

looks like we know the coronation for 2013 Worlds

the Shibs will probably finish 5th, I predict Giles/Poirer will be ahead of them in FD

 

[Mrs. P]

Thank you Mrs. P for this. IIRC didn't they also change SD programs before the start of this season? They are such lovely skaters, I like to think these challenges are part of the growth process that will spur them higher.

Yes, they changed their SD from Mary Poppins to their current one. When they were at COR, it was only a few weeks old, so they've been behind the 8 ball a bit.

And I agree, sometimes growth requires struggle. I don't think I would have advanced so far in my career without the struggles I went through over the years.

 

[deedee1]

The gap between V/M and D/W is very slim. Let's wait until Free Dance is over, shall we, everyone?

No politiking here in Japan, and no politiking next month in Canada, either, please. That's my wish to skating god. Let their skates speak first and most! :yes:

 

[Art&Sport]

This topic always comes up and while it's true beauty and attractiveness is inherently subjective, it still doesn't change the fact that some actors / actresses are widely considered more appealing to a wider audience than others. The same can be said about D/W. Think about it, has anyone ever seriously wonder Meryl and Charlie are dating? Why is that they used to have trouble with passionate compulsory dances such as tango and etc.? That should tell you they do have a very noticeable issue with their chemistry and passion. They are great athletes but almost too athletic for Ice Dance. Virtue/Moir are very different in that respect. They look like a pair of actor and actress on ice and they fooled many people in thinking they are a couple, in fact, they aren't. So while it's possible some people might find Meryl or Charlie more suitable to their taste, the acting skill displayed by Virtue/Moir is without a doubt significantly superior. The fact that the SD eliminated the CD and is somewhat more flexible in terms of expression vs. the OD really helped D/W. But until D/W can successfully pull off a romantic piece or a dance with passion, V/M will continue to have an edge in this area.

Again, it comes down to taste and perception. In your mind V/M will continue to have an edge because you like them and that's how you see it. They are both great teams, but I personally see more authenticity in Meryl and Charlie. I don't like the pretentiousness that V/M often exhibit. Like I said both of these teams have pushed each other -- they've made each other better. But Meryl and Charlie IMO have more class and sportsmanship, and they have grown but their constant critics refuse to see it and respect them. It's unfortunate when M&C are unfairly dissed in the marks against V/M which has simply happened too often.

 

[sky_fly20]

FD is still doable, its where V/M have been struggling this season
If they nail the overall score should be

1 D/W
2 V/M
3 C/B
4 G/B
5 Shibs
6 O/W

 

[Mrs. P]

uh...only a few points you said? 5 points is a lot in Ice Dance at this level. Losing one level on one element doesn't equate to them being scored 5 points less, you are the stats person, be logical here please and don't let your feeling cloud your judgment.

I say "a few points" in the relatively of nationals vs. international judging. Of course I know they're not going to score a 79. But they could have easily scored 75 or 76 if they have done better. So relatively, their score here was not that much lower than their nationals score.

Nationals is always going to be a touch higher than internationals, I don't see the fuss. D/W and V/M both scored 79 at Nationals, so I knew it would be close here. I never said that D/W would run away with it here. Please check my posts before lumping me in with everyone else.

And I don't appreciate being accused of not being logical, when I spent the time breaking down the protocals and explaining it to everyone with no opinion one way or the other. For the record, I can see why V/M is ahead.