2013 Worlds-Mens SP

[Skatebunny17]

I must say that I find that Patrick was absolutely outstanding and thoses haters have just to

SHHHHUUUUUUTTTTTTT UPPP!!!:

Thank you!!!

 

[bramweld]

Thank you!!!

Oh, have mercy on us all, the women and ice dancers can't come fast enough, good night

 

[Blades of Passion]

Most of these programs look like crap.

The nitpickery is because the scores are such a blatant reminder of how the skating that truly moves people doesn't matter so much anymore. Chan doesn't deserve PCS that high compared to what real, inspired artistic skating should really look like. He was overall the best here, definitely, but it's hard to get that excited about it on some levels. The technical elements were solid and difficult across the board and his blade work is stunning, but the performance/choreography/interpretation? Does his skating invoke deep emotions within you, though? I can't say that it does for me. His program was okay choreographically, not great. As for the other areas, I still feel like he doesn't always move TO the music (those opening movements seem quite calculated) or bring a viewpoint into his skating that has relevance.

I believe Takahashi deserved the highest PCS. His combination spin was SO good with the music. Every single change of position actually MEANT something. His footwork was also the best in that regard. Look at how well he understands how to change tempo. Look at how he understands WHY a certain movement goes with the music and how he lives the moment and lets it run through him. Love the brackets right at the end and how they express that solitary, repetitive piano note which has come to the forefront of the melody. His body movement actually changes to match it.

Still, as hard as he tries, his program still has some unnecessary movements that are in there simply because the rules dictate them. Should Takahashi being doing that broken-leg sit spin position or that catch-foot camel position? No, he really shouldn't be. Should all of these men being trying to go onto the inside edge during their camel spin, while halfway twisting their bodies upward? Nope.

There needs to be a happy medium found between rewarding technically difficulty and rewarding the difficulty it takes to truly move to music and do something personal. Who cares if it's more subjective. I WANT to be forced to pick between Michelle Kwan and Lu Chen at 1996 Worlds. And guess what...every skater in the World would be fine with getting a Silver medal instead of a Gold, if it meant getting the kind of salaries and widespread audiences the sport used to bring.

 

[Art&Sport]

^^ ITA! Whole post, Blades of Passion. Reasonable, logical, insightful and articulate. Thank you.

Guys, Ross never landed the quad in the SP to date. And he wasn't underscored, because his quad was underrotated and got downgraded, beside the fall.

Yeah, yeah, but like I said the judges obviously weren't rating Ross that highly to begin with and his skating skills are IMHO superior to Brian Joubert's, Nan Song's, Peter Liebers', Kevin Reynolds', Mura's and at least on a par with that of Amodio and Brezina, despite Amodio having a better PCS rep.

Ross did land the quad slightly two-footed at Nationals which was visible on replay, but that's certainly better than falling, even it it isn't scored that way due to the oddness of CoP.

It's as if other ISU judges disagree or discount the high scores Ross received in the fp at NHK. That and/ or politics. Clearly other skaters were boosted with errors here, while Ross was excessively dumped on.

 

[kimganos]

Most of these programs look like crap.

The nitpickery is because the scores are such a blatant reminder of how the skating that truly moves people doesn't matter so much anymore. Chan doesn't deserve PCS that high compared to what real, inspired artistic skating should really look like. He was overall the best here, definitely, but it's hard to get that excited about it on some levels. The technical elements were solid and difficult across the board and his blade work is stunning, but the performance/choreography/interpretation? Does his skating invoke deep emotions within you, though? I can't say that it does for me. His program was okay choreographically, not great. As for the other areas, I still feel like he doesn't always move TO the music (those opening movements seem quite calculated) or bring a viewpoint into his skating that has relevance.

I believe Takahashi deserved the highest PCS. His combination spin was SO good with the music. Every single change of position actually MEANT something. His footwork was also the best in that regard. Look at how well he understands how to change tempo. Look at how he understands WHY a certain movement goes with the music and how he lives the moment and lets it run through him. Love the brackets right at the end and how they express that solitary, repetitive piano note which has come to the forefront of the melody. His body movement actually changes to match it.

Still, as hard as he tries, his program still has some unnecessary movements that are in there simply because the rules dictate them. Should Takahashi being doing that broken-leg sit spin position or that catch-foot camel position? No, he really shouldn't be. Should all of these men being trying to go onto the inside edge during their camel spin, while halfway twisting their bodies upward? Nope.

There needs to be a happy medium found between rewarding technically difficulty and rewarding the difficulty it takes to truly move to music and do something personal. Who cares if it's more subjective. I WANT to be forced to pick between Michelle Kwan and Lu Chen at 1996 Worlds. And guess what...every skater in the World would be fine with getting a Silver medal instead of a Gold, if it meant getting the kind of salaries and widespread audiences the sport used to bring.

This!!!

 

[Art&Sport]

Again, totally agree with Blades of Passion.

I'm reviewing the performances, and seriously Peter Liebers didn't attempt a quad, his program and concept were boring and the music wasn't inspiring, nor did he actually do anything to interpret it. He skated a CoP, stay on your feet and grab as many points as you can program, with lots of crossovers and not great speed. They placed Ross Miner behind that performance b/c Ross fell on a quad.

In addition, Nan Song landed a quad bent over and shakily with his other foot touching down awkwardly so he had no flow out -- he nearly toppled forward. And Nan's skating was so slow and cautious. Uninteresting music and little choreographic content. Nan's skating skills are not up to par with those of Ross Miner, yet Ross was placed behind Nan Song's performance. By taking everything apart and not looking at performances as a whole, the scoring is haywire, and many of the programs are crap with moves being done as Blades of Passion states because of CoP, and not because they have any meaning or connection to the music or choreography.

Ross challenged himself this season with interesting and difficult music and he worked with new choreographers. Even though he still has a lot more work to do re presentation, Ross moves over the ice with a lot more speed, precision and confidence than many of the guys he was placed behind. It doesn't matter that Ross' PCS marks were generally higher than those of Liebers and Song. Ross was simply not rated as highly as he should have been and he was harshly judged for making one mistake on an attempted quad. Some will say that Ross' landings on two of his jumps weren't perfect, but he still landed them in good position with more flow than Nan Song had on his jump landings, and Ross made no mistakes like turn-outs or falling forward or losing his balance.

Amodio and Hanyu were both very generously scored (partly due to rep, but still they had greater mistakes than Ross).

 

[Mathman]

All this nitpickery of Chan and his scoring is getting ridiculous. It reminds me of an old political joke, which I will update now for the Chan anti-fans (Chanti-fans? Chantagonists?): So the new pope pays a visit to Detroit (he is supposed to be awfully concerned with poverty), where Patrick now trains. The pope goes boating on Lake Saint Clair (after all, Saint Clair is the first follower of St. Francis of Assisi, the new pope's namesake), and Patrick, taking a day off, tags along. During the boat ride, a sudden gust of wind blows the pope's zucchetto (the papal yarmulke, pardon my religion mixing) into the water. Everybody gasps. The Swiss Guards ready themselves for a surely suicidal swim in the horribly polluted waters to retrieve the holy item. That's when P-Chiddy stood up and said, "I got this." He jumped off the boat, and ran right on top of the lake without falling in (it turns out that his skating skills work on liquid as well as frozen water), grabs the hat, swings around and hands it back to the pope. Reaction from Chan's anti-fans? "Well, it just goes to show, Patrick Chan can't swim."

:thumbsup:

The nitpickery is because the scores are such a blatant reminder of how the skating that truly moves people doesn't matter so much anymore.

True. But it is the judging system that guarantees this, not Patrick Chan.

Chan was way better than anyone else last night. He got way better scores than anyone else. What difference does it make if he got 98 or 95?

Anyway, thanks to the IJS there is no reason for anyone to watch the long program.

 

[sky_fly20]

its predetermined with that huge Gap we all know when Chan skates half decent will get generous scores, there is ZERO chance of anyone getting close to him

Chan was always a lock for Gold in 2013 Worlds

 

[Hikaru]

Ya se coronó campeón Europeo. Dale tiempo para lo demás.

Bien dicho!!!

 

[jan]

Interesting you have this opinion when fellow past world champions are heralding his ( Chans) skate as a Masterpiece! People in the arena are commenting on the sound of his blades and the edges he created that produced these sounds. I really do not agree with your assessment.

Most of these programs look like crap.

The nitpickery is because the scores are such a blatant reminder of how the skating that truly moves people doesn't matter so much anymore. Chan doesn't deserve PCS that high compared to what real, inspired artistic skating should really look like. He was overall the best here, definitely, but it's hard to get that excited about it on some levels. The technical elements were solid and difficult across the board and his blade work is stunning, but the performance/choreography/interpretation? Does his skating invoke deep emotions within you, though? I can't say that it does for me. His program was okay choreographically, not great. As for the other areas, I still feel like he doesn't always move TO the music (those opening movements seem quite calculated) or bring a viewpoint into his skating that has relevance.

I believe Takahashi deserved the highest PCS. His combination spin was SO good with the music. Every single change of position actually MEANT something. His footwork was also the best in that regard. Look at how well he understands how to change tempo. Look at how he understands WHY a certain movement goes with the music and how he lives the moment and lets it run through him. Love the brackets right at the end and how they express that solitary, repetitive piano note which has come to the forefront of the melody. His body movement actually changes to match it.

Still, as hard as he tries, his program still has some unnecessary movements that are in there simply because the rules dictate them. Should Takahashi being doing that broken-leg sit spin position or that catch-foot camel position? No, he really shouldn't be. Should all of these men being trying to go onto the inside edge during their camel spin, while halfway twisting their bodies upward? Nope.

There needs to be a happy medium found between rewarding technically difficulty and rewarding the difficulty it takes to truly move to music and do something personal. Who cares if it's more subjective. I WANT to be forced to pick between Michelle Kwan and Lu Chen at 1996 Worlds. And guess what...every skater in the World would be fine with getting a Silver medal instead of a Gold, if it meant getting the kind of salaries and widespread audiences the sport used to bring.

 

[Ryan O]

Glad to see Brian Joubert skate so well and do a quad combo. Good result for Brian to finish #5, and I hope he can have another good skate in the long program that he can feel good about!

 

[Kinga]

I can't believe Chan just skated great and people still find something to complain about.

2009 Chan: Great SS. Yes but he doesn't have a 3 axel.

2010 Chan: Great SS and a 3 axel. Yes, but he laks the almighty quad.

2011 Chan: Great SS, 3 axel and a quad! Yes but he lacks artistry.

2012 Chan: Great SS, 3 axel, a quad and is working on his artistry. Yes, but he's overscored and inconsistent.

2013 Chan: Great SS, 3 axel, a quad and much improved artistry! Yes but I hate his cleavage!


Give me a break.

Yes, yes and yes.
I must say that Chan's shirt does not bother me for this particular program (am I weird? ). And I reallyyyy love the color ot the shirt.
I have seen much worse costumes, even from the most loved skating idols.... And yet, they have never been so picked on. Oh well...

He was over the toe on the 4toe and had to fight to get the 3toe done.

3axel had the timing off on the take-off and had barely enough height to get completed (I was surprised the landing was so solid, it was very close).

Lutz was good. Spins were good but not exceptional.

Chan also got 1.57 for 4toe/3toe. The judges clearly were watching something else.

The GOEs for his first two jumping passes are way way too high.

It's not like the other skaters do not get showered with GOES and inflated PCS...
I do not intend to make any mean comparisons or get into childlish 'X did this and Y did that', but it calls for few examples here: I'm sure if it was Dai or Javi pulling off this 4T-3T combo in the same manner as Chan, you would never say that they 'fought for landing'.
Also, I don't see how that 3A would be picked on if it was Javi or you pick the name yourself . It was a damn good 3A.

There is always something to complain about in each and every single performance that ever was and ever will be skated.

Hmmm, again I beg to differ on that one. Some skaters would never ever get criticized here if they put a great performance with merely tiniest, slightest glitches or details that maybe would need to be improved (Im not gonna give examples this time, people would label me a hater asap, which is not true). So much double standart....

Beautiful skate, Patrick. I love how he's the one who gets all the attention for bad judging. He is not even the most overscored of the day. It pays to have a lead, I guess.

ITA

 

[snsd]

To the people complaining about Patricks GOE on jumps,

To the people complaining about patricks GOE on jumps, have any of you even read this document explaining how GOE is given?

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3589

To get a +2 you need to cover only 4 of these points and 6 for a +3

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

For the Combo of Patrick I would give: 1,2,4,5,6,8

Either way it should definitely be +2 no matter what! or 3 depending on if you though it matched the music or was difficult enough steps!

For the 3A of Patrick: 2,4,5,6,7

So that would be a +2


Stop complaining about how you think Patrick is always overscored or you hate his costume....its getting old and annoying

 

[snowflake]

Maybe it's that damn Winnie the Pooh Kleenex box. It makes me want to steal his lunch money and shove him in a locker.

Hanyu is 18 freaking years old for goodness sake - way too old for him to still be packaged as a Pooh lover.

What's wrong with having a wise bear as your pet philosopher? :yes:

“Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day.”

All this nitpickery of Chan and his scoring is getting ridiculous. It reminds me of an old political joke, which I will update now for the Chan anti-fans (Chanti-fans? Chantagonists?): So the new pope pays a visit to Detroit (he is supposed to be awfully concerned with poverty), where Patrick now trains. The pope goes boating on Lake Saint Clair (after all, Saint Clair is the first follower of St. Francis of Assisi, the new pope's namesake), and Patrick, taking a day off, tags along. During the boat ride, a sudden gust of wind blows the pope's zucchetto (the papal yarmulke, pardon my religion mixing) into the water. Everybody gasps. The Swiss Guards ready themselves for a surely suicidal swim in the horribly polluted waters to retrieve the holy item. That's when P-Chiddy stood up and said, "I got this." He jumped off the boat, and ran right on top of the lake without falling in (it turns out that his skating skills work on liquid as well as frozen water), grabs the hat, swings around and hands it back to the pope. Reaction from Chan's anti-fans? "Well, it just goes to show, Patrick Chan can't swim."

Thanks!

 

[Olympia]

I believe Takahashi deserved the highest PCS. His combination spin was SO good with the music. Every single change of position actually MEANT something. His footwork was also the best in that regard. Look at how well he understands how to change tempo. Look at how he understands WHY a certain movement goes with the music and how he lives the moment and lets it run through him. Love the brackets right at the end and how they express that solitary, repetitive piano note which has come to the forefront of the melody. His body movement actually changes to match it.

Still, as hard as he tries, his program still has some unnecessary movements that are in there simply because the rules dictate them. Should Takahashi being doing that broken-leg sit spin position or that catch-foot camel position? No, he really shouldn't be. Should all of these men being trying to go onto the inside edge during their camel spin, while halfway twisting their bodies upward? Nope.

I'm content with Chan's being in first place, but BoP has put his finger on what I look for in skating and why I love Takahashi and will always root for him.

 

[jatale]

Patrick was amazing! Good for him! I really don't get all the nit-picking going on. His costume was fine, his edge work was outstanding, his jumps were huge. What more do you want? Considering the pressure he was under, his performance was all the more remarkable. All around an amazing SP!

 

[figuristka]

Had to work so watched this late.
My gosh what a night. Some very unexpected results.
Have to say Patrick was breathtaking. I love his smooth skating and listening to his blade across the ice. Absolutely beautiful. Iam so glad he showed his short program at its best. Think Buttle will be proud. Even when he is perfect there are always a few who are so critical. If some cannot appreciate watching his short i indeed feel sorry for them.

Denis Ten was amazing. Really peaked at the right time. Seems so good at everything. Really enjoy his skating when skating well.

Dai i would have placed 3rd. He is a true dancer on the ice, such superb movements with his body, such detail and always skates like its from his heart. I know he landed his quad on 2 feet but iam disappointed this didn't place above Reynolds. I think the rest of the program should have been enough to place him a spot higher.

Yuzuru love him. I hated seeing that hard fall. I adore his skating but seemed a bit wild throughout the program. Hope he comes back strong in the free. I worry he is still injured and tired. I don't worry about his future though, he is so talented he will win Worlds even if its not this year.

Florent like Yuzuru just want to hug him. That fall at the end was terrible. I think he is a very entertaining skater even with his choreography.

Javier, not bad, might have placed him higher but doesn't quite have the skills of Patrick, or Dai yet. Sorry he skated so early as i think he might have placed above Brezina if later on. His quad sal was beautiful.

Reynolds, really went after it. He doesnt have the speed or power of the top skaters but does have quads and a good balanced program and good spins. I just would have placed this behind Dai. Even Joubert i prefered.

 

[WeakAnkles]

All this nitpickery of Chan and his scoring is getting ridiculous. It reminds me of an old political joke, which I will update now for the Chan anti-fans (Chanti-fans? Chantagonists?): So the new pope pays a visit to Detroit (he is supposed to be awfully concerned with poverty), where Patrick now trains. The pope goes boating on Lake Saint Clair (after all, Saint Clair is the first follower of St. Francis of Assisi, the new pope's namesake), and Patrick, taking a day off, tags along. During the boat ride, a sudden gust of wind blows the pope's zucchetto (the papal yarmulke, pardon my religion mixing) into the water. Everybody gasps. The Swiss Guards ready themselves for a surely suicidal swim in the horribly polluted waters to retrieve the holy item. That's when P-Chiddy stood up and said, "I got this." He jumped off the boat, and ran right on top of the lake without falling in (it turns out that his skating skills work on liquid as well as frozen water), grabs the hat, swings around and hands it back to the pope. Reaction from Chan's anti-fans? "Well, it just goes to show, Patrick Chan can't swim."

LOL. On the other hand, all the Chanfanatics would be saying, He's a saint! Canonize him IMMEDIATELY!

 

[roots]

I absolutely do not get what all the hoopla is about Hanyu. He's not even the most interesting or talented of the Japanese skaters, much less the cream of the world crop.

I feel like I'm on another planet concerning this guy. He's clearly got the attention of the judges and fans.

Maybe it's that damn Winnie the Pooh Kleenex box. It makes me want to steal his lunch money and shove him in a locker.

Had to log in just because that was the funniest thing I have read in all 37 pages and 'Cause I sorta feel the same way.

 

[karne]

I haven't seen this skate of his yet, but I am sure it was lovely, because he is a lovely skater.

But also stamped into my brain is the memory that he won Skate Canada by falling four times. And that is unacceptable, and I don't care what CoP rubbish you try to use to explain it, it shouldn't happen.