Ashley Wagner decries Russian anti-gay law

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It was a reference to the 2011 Russian legislative elections, more specifically to this picture, where you can see that the numbers add up to quite a bit more than 100%.

I see that they learned math in the same school Fox News did.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Of course it's true! The Russians are saying it's true, so it must be, right? :sarcasm: I mean, the Russian government would never mislead people into thinking the laws that they created have the support of the Russian people.

If you understand the Russian culture a little more, it is not hard to believe it. I've seen some articles posted here about 100% passing in duma (one voted present, I believe) and some articles about over 86% Russian people stood by this law. A Russian poster stated a few months ago that 98% of Russian people are agreeing with this. Regardless the detailed percentage, whether it's over 86% or over 90%, it is truly laughable to dismiss the fact that the majority of the Russians are thinking this way. When did US ever pass any law that had 100% agreed in congress?

 

[Mathman]

That's OK with me, too. She wants to speak up in her own land about a law of another country. Even though it's useless, why should anyone object that?

I can't tell if you mean this question sarcastically or not. I do not in fact see why anyone would object to that. Sky_fly thinks President Obama is reprehensible because his decisions caused the deaths of many civilians including children in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is Sky_fly's view. OK, it's a free country.

Jeremy Abbott has been crushed hard by gay communities.

I think what Jeremy was criticized for is trivializing this serious issue by equating it with preferences for home decorating. If he had just said, "I am an ayhlete not a politician. I am here to compete not to give my opinion on the laws of other countries" -- if he had said that, he would have been OK.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If you understand the Russian culture a little more, it is not hard to believe it. I've seen some articles posted here about 100% passing in duma (one voted present, I believe) and some articles about over 86% Russian people stood by this law. A Russian poster stated a few months ago that 98% of Russian people are agreeing with this. Regardless the detailed percentage, whether it's 86% or over 90%, it is truly laughable to dismiss the fact that the majority of the Russians are thinking this way. When did US ever pass any law that had 100% votes in congress?

I've heard some articles say that it's only 42%, and some newscasts say 25%. My best friend's next door neighbour's relatives in Russia all say it's anywhere between 20-29%. My massage therapist is Russian and she say it's 35% so I think I'm going to go with that. I've also heard that 86 to over 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and 45% of posters will posts stats without links to articles in the hopes that people will actually consider them to be accurate. :sarcasm:

Also, Congress has 100 Senators and 435 representatives... so criticizing them for not being 100% on something is ridiculous.

Nobody dismisses that the majority of Russians are thinking this way. But the majority of Americans at one point advocated for slavery. The majority of Germans supported Nazis at one point. Just because it's the majority doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. It's not the majority whose rights are being infringed upon, so obviously why should they side with LGBT people, especially when the law forbids them from doing so?

Any Russian person either has to agree with the laws or face persecution. That is not free will, so that 90% stat is garbage.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I can't tell if you mean this question sarcastically or not. I do not in fact see why anyone would object to that. Sky_fly thinks President Obama is reprehensible because his decisions caused the deaths of many civilians including children in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That is Sky_fly's view. OK, it's a free country.

No sarcasm. I was merely pointing out the fact. If she speaks it in Russia, I will actually believe it's not OK.

 

[sky_fly20]

It was a reference to the 2011 Russian legislative elections, more specifically to this picture, where you can see that the numbers add up to quite a bit more than 100%.

I am curious to know where you and others in this thread got the 90% figure from. Is there actually a (preferably non-biased) opinion poll that supports this? If it's based on speculation, then I personally find it as believable as the results in that photo .

I suggest you create a vk account where there are thousands of meme gay jokes with captions with many likes
also common are posting pictures of gay people ( form private pictures/public) plastered with joke captions for public sharing

the huge dislike for gay people in Russia is because Homosexualism is associated and cannotated with pedophilia
and that has been like that for decades. wether that will change ? we don't know maybe in a few deacdes, hundreds of years or maybe never

 

[Mathman]

but let's congratulate Wagner, well done she has succeeded her goal of getting attention for herself and more endorsements !! :yes:

I do not see any evidence for such a leap in logic. There is no reason not to take Ashley's statements at face value. She has family members as well as friends in figure skating who are gay. She wants to stand up against ill treatment of gay people wherever it occurs. She does not expect to affect any laws or change anyone's mind, but -- there it is.

I do not see any merit in inventing strange motives for her actions. Her words stand on their own without embellishment by us.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I've heard some articles say that it's only 42%, and some newscasts say 25%. My best friend's next door neighbour's relatives in Russia all say it's anywhere between 20-29%. My massage therapist is Russian and she say it's 35% so I think I'm going to go with that. I've also heard that 86 to over 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and 45% of posters will posts stats without links to articles in the hopes that people will actually consider them to be accurate. :sarcasm:

What I have refered to are the articles which the links have been posted on GS and FSU. I don't think I need to dig those old posts out. Where are your sources? Links please!

 

[sky_fly20]

I've heard some articles say that it's only 42%, and some newscasts say 25%. My best friend's next door neighbour's relatives in Russia all say it's anywhere between 20-29%. My massage therapist is Russian and she say it's 35% so I think I'm going to go with that. I've also heard that 86 to over 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and 45% of posters will posts stats without links to articles in the hopes that people will actually consider them to be accurate. :sarcasm:

of course Russian emigrates and second/third generation. they do not count. just as Tchaikovsky lived in Russia his whole life.
Inside Russia it is an illiberal country with many ethnicities with very conservative roots, it stems from the notion that gay rights and gay people
are imported from the western and is a threat or an alien values.

 

[Mathman]

I've also heard that 86 to over 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Actually, my research shows that it is 93.247%. (You can quote that, if you like.

 

[sky_fly20]

I do not see any evidence for such a leap in logic. There is no reason not to take Ashley's statements at face value. She has family members as well as friends in figure skating who are gay. She wants to stand up against ill treatment of gay people wherever it occurs. She does not expect to affect any laws or change anyone's mind, but -- there it is.

I do not see any merit in inventing strange motives for her actions. Her words stand on their own without embellishment by us.

why not ? she knows Gracie is the Golden girl not worn out Wagner with no 3-3
with this attention her name will be plastered and will be more profiled than Gracie
leading to the Olympics not to mention her publicity gig for endorsements purposes

she gets fame, money and media hype from the LGBT commutiy
its a win-win for her

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't know what you mean? Are you saying that it is not true?



That's OK with me, too. She wants to speak up in her own land about a law of another country. Even though it's useless, why should anyone object that? Though I do not agree with her. Somehow, not to speak up like Ashley did, Jeremy Abbott has been crushed hard by gay communities.

Jeremy was crushed hard because he equated speaking out against LGBT persecution in Russia to commenting negatively on your hosts decor. That is an immensely stupid analogy on his part. Your host wouldn't make you give them money or lock you up in their basement if you said negative things about their decor. Choosing not to speak out against LGBT persecution in Russia is not akin to staying silent about your host's bad decor because it might be rude, it's like going to somebody's house, seeing that they beat their kids, and then staying silent because you think it might be rude to your host. That's why the gay community has criticized him.

 

[treeloving]

Nobody dismisses that the majority of Russians are thinking this way. But the majority of Americans at one point advocated for slavery. The majority of Germans supported Nazis at one point. Just because it's the majority doesn't mean everyone else has to agree. It's not the majority whose rights are being infringed upon, so obviously why should they side with LGBT people, especially when the law forbids them from doing so?

:agree:


And I'm really surprise that some are deeply trouble with Wagner personal opinion! Even result into personal attack toward her .

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

why not ? she knows Gracie is the Golden girl not worn out Wagner with no 3-3
with this attention her name will be plastered and will be more profiled than Gracie
leading to the Olympics not to mention her publicity gig for endorsements purposes

she gets fame, money and media hype from the LGBT commutiy
its a win-win for her

Somebody asked her a question and she decided to speak up. She has no motivations, as Mathman said, to demonstrate against the laws, but it is painfully obvious that the Russian laws discriminate against and persecute LGBT people so she's making the choice to take a stance.

If she was doing it for fame, publicity, etc. you think more skaters would be doing it then?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

:agree:


And I'm really surprise that some are deeply trouble with Wagner personal opinion! Even result into personal attack toward her .

I know right! How dare she say that discrimination is disturbing to her. How dare she acknowledge that the Russian laws are discriminatory and actually call them out on how they disenfranchise LGBT people.

It's funny how people are essentially whining, "Why is Ashley being so intolerant of Russia's intolerance?"

 

[Bluebonnet]

Also, Congress has 100 Senators and 435 representatives... so criticizing them for not being 100% on something is ridiculous.

Ridiculous? See this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Russia

The 616-member parliament, termed the Federal Assembly, consists of two houses, the 450-member State Duma (the lower house) and the 166-member Federation Council (the upper house).

Bigger than US congress and US senate.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It would not surprise me if that figure is ~90%. What has changed opinions in the US is (a) positive media depictions of GLBT people and (b) many people know an openly GLBT person. It has taken many years to change minds on the issue and in many places the idea of homosexuality conflicts with traditional ideas on family, gender identity, and even military preparedness. I don't think a population is bigoted or discriminatory for having opinions based on ideas they're exposed to, nor would I overestimate their acceptance of a lifestyle that their priests, family members, and politicians uniformly frown upon. If one Russian sees Ashley's statement and decides to investigate more about how she arrived at her position, then Ashley's comments were worthwhile.

 

[sky_fly20]

Somebody asked her a question and she decided to speak up. She has no motivations, as Mathman said, to demonstrate against the laws, but it is painfully obvious that the Russian laws discriminate against and persecute LGBT people so she's making the choice to take a stance.

If she was doing it for fame, publicity, etc. you think more skaters would be doing it then?

No because others obey the rules of the what the IOC and the USOC has stated
well at least her name will now be more followed than Gracie to Sochi

 

[RABID]

Is it hurting too much to admit that the fact is that the vast majority of the Russian people are agreeing with this law?!

Is it hurting too much to let Russia know that many people in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the rest of the world find this law repugnant? It is all opinion and you and they can say it is none of our business but you and they can't ignore the fact that many outside Russia's borders find the law greatly offensive? Ignore it or deal with it.

 

[yuki]

I suggest you create a vk account where there are thousands of meme gay jokes with captions with many likes
also common are posting pictures of gay people ( form private pictures/public) plastered with joke captions for public sharing

I'm not really sure what you are suggesting here. Why would I want to do that?

the huge dislike for gay people in Russia is because Homosexualism is associated and cannotated with pedophilia
and that has been like that for decades. wether that will change ? we don't know maybe in a few deacdes, hundreds of years or maybe never

Well, change has to start from somewhere and this law is most definitely not that starting point, but rather a big step backwards.
I come from a country that's just as traditionalist and religious as Russia and, some years ago, when our Parliament repealed an article from the Penal Code that had made homosexual relations punishable by prison, there was uproar, especially from the church. But after that, the Earth didn't crumble and the fires of hell didn't swallow us whole . Most people in my country, especially the older generations, still oppose homosexuality on principle, but not in an active manner - in their day to day life, there are more visible and pressing issues.

As for Ashley's statement, I agree that it was brave of her to take this stance, even if it's only in the USA. If she really wanted to get attention, I'm not sure that being the girl who went against the policy of her federation is a particularly smart strategy.