Ladies LP - 2014 European Championships

[Sam-Skwantch]

Even if I am amazed with Julia and i like her a lot, her consistency and cold mind to go out there and do 7 triples, I was more shocked with her components or Adelina's 68 and 69+ its RIDICULOUS!!, may we expect if cleans 70+ at sochi?

I hope so

 

[Ven]

That's funny - I just posted the complete opposite! I'll have to watch the program again to see if I see what you mean because my initial impression was that she did a good job of sticking with the performance throughout.

Hey that's ok. Everyone will have their own impressions on a performance. I only watched it once and then wanted to respond, since I think that's the true litmus test...how did it look the first time you saw it?

Now that I went back and watched a second time, I can describe what I mean by "monotonous but not monotonous" ... Julia really is a talented skater for her age, so you can't say she's boring. She certainly exudes a lot of confidence. But she had the same attack throughout the entire skate. After the brilliant opening, her attack did not vary once from beginning to end. That's what caused me to feel the monotony even the first time around.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Hey that's ok. Everyone will have their own impressions on a performance. I only watched it once and then wanted to respond, since I think that's the true litmus test...how did it look the first time you saw it?

I watched it live and my heart was racing. I'm a huge fan, this is obvious I think, but I was literally on the edge of my seat. It was very intense waiting for those scores. Didn't know what to expect after GPF and Russian nationals! To me if you don't like anything she has done yet then you probably won't here or in the near future. I really don't ever see her going into a flirty stage like Adelina is kind of in right now. That is fine by me. I've played cello my whole life so maybe I always look for the subtle undertones in things to find beauty. I do concede its going to be awhile until her SS is much improved. This will always drive people bonkers it seems. I too must point out how very focused on the technical side of this sport she is. This FS was actually more brilliant than anything else but with the focus being on her TS. Under all that pressure she was able to adjust her jump routine after being frozen by her first 2a and keep the program together quite well. Although her jump technique is VERY polarizing, it seems to be working just fine. She always seems to find the podium. I for one was happy I tuned in!!

Does anyone know how to get Carmen out of your head? it's been 3 days now

 

[Ven]

@ Sam

I do appreciate subtle, understated beauty. Yuna (the most beautiful skater IMO) gets criticized for not being expressive enough, but I usually prefer her elegant, regal style. Someone like Akiko Suzuki, who gets criticized for not being attractive in the conventional sense, nevertheless has some endearing energy about her that IS attractive. And when she skates I can still see her instrument and joy and think she's attractive after all. Adelina, I think she's more mature looking recently, so it's a bit more appropriate for her if she goes through a flirty stage.

Julia though ... she's just 15 and looks 10. People can ignore that if they want, but it's very disadvantageous for her to compete against the women. What does she go for on the ice? I don't understand how her PCS can be so high. The ladies are trying to do technical content and show off their blade skills, but they're also trying to be sexy and expressive, move your emotions, lots of other things. How can you compare someone like Julia who can't really do that? Nor should she be trying. It leaves me wondering, "I've been watching these women jump and spin and look sexy and flirt, now what am I supposed to be looking for when I watch this little girl skate?"

So .... I think that's where her vibe comes from. She's like a determined school girl out there, she just attacks, attacks, attacks. It comes off monotonous to me. It's not her fault because it's age appropriate, but I think it's boring to watch, despite flashes of pure talent mixed in. (on the other hand, if you put her up against girls her own age, where the only thing that stands out is technical skill and level of attack, she blows everyone away).

Adelina on the other hand ... man she has unbridled energy. That's why I called her a sprite. She just goes and goes. Sometimes it's cute, sometimes it's funny, and then after awhile the thought occurs to me that she's not even skating to the music, she's just out there skating to moment. I think she could stand to be reigned in a little ... she would be even better if she could learn when to turn on the energy and when to turn it off. The audience really loves ebb and flow.

 

[Globetrotter]

I have to agree with you. Basically, Caro is finished for Sochi unless Mao, Yuna n the Russian dolls botch up big time. Her tech content is too weak. To have any chance, she has got to up the ante on Bolero. Let fly the 3F-3T. Replace the 2nd 3T (wonky n low value) with another 3F. The 3R so late in the LP does not work, so that might be made earlier. Glad she took off that silly 3S at the end. High risk with little value. Rather she repeat another 3R instead.

 

[Mao88]

LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT - Updated

1. Julia LIPNITSKAIA (RUS) - 209.72 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 202.36 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
3. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA) - 191.39 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
4. Alena LEONOVA (RUS) - 178.15 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 173.37 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
6. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA) - 165.25 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 155.71 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
8. Nathalie WEINZIERL (GER) - 151.88 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 146.45 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
10. Elene GEDEVANISHVILI (GEO) - 141.82 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
11. Roberta RODEGHIERO (ITA) - 141.25
12. Juulia TURKKILA (FIN) - 140.31 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
13. Laurine LECAVELIER (FRA) - 139.42
14. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE) - 138.73 Free Skate, 2nd Copy

Medal Ceremony (2nd Copy)

 

[Ven]

One thing that is really great about Julia's program though is the opening. So different from a lot of the ladies' openings, and really does a great job of bringing the audience in close to the skater. It's both good choreography and good presentation on the part of Julia herself. In contrast, I've been critical of Yuna's LP this season for doing the exact opposite; at times she could have also brought the audience in close to her, but instead the choreography and her presentation broke the 4th wall and pushed everyone out.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Ven- You make excellent points and I understand exactly what you mean. I guess I just enjoy that non-stop attack that I've never really seen out of someone as talented and capable as Julia. It really is overwhelming to watch. I do find she balances it with some subtle beauty. The hand raise before she super bielmans for example. Like I said earlier, my heart was racing until the scores came out. I'd be very happy if Sochi were 1)Yuna 2)Julia 3)Suzuki . That would be a great podium IMO. I still think Julia has a reasonable chance to steal the show. Everyone loves a cute kid:yes:

 

[Ven]

Surely I can't be the first one to say this but those gloves on Adelina are hideous. How on earth can her people make her wear those gloves?

 

[Frenchie]

I don't know if this is correct because of the talking, but I ran it through an app and came up with "Aria" by Yanni.

Cool, thanks a lot! you're right!

 

[Frenchie]

Well, we 'll have to respect that. That also is judges' prerogative. you may not agree or like it, but judges need to retain their own figure principle and philosophy even if it's against mainstream or popular idea as long as it is not maliciously biased or distorted by something other than the sport itself. by the way , the current judging practice does not promote such , however.

I agree on every point.
I do feel strongly that the judges are quickly going in the direction of not awarding marks that would satisfy their own criteria of fairness, but rather marks that would have an impact as big as possible on the outcome:
If a judge, for example, felt that Sotnikova was slightly better than Lipnitskaia in Skating Skills, I feel there's more and more of this happening:
Inside the judges' head: "Skating Skills: Sotnikova 8.50; Lipnitskaia: 8.25"
What that judge marks: "Sotnikova: 9.25; Lipnitskaia: 7.00"
That happens in both ways, and with several skaters.

 

[Frenchie]

Julia (...) has extra long pauses in between jump combos, so I imagine those must count as sequence instead?

That's a funny observation. But I'm not aware of any such criteria as "taking your time" between landing the 1st jump and launching the 2nd one... I guess the only area where that long pause might affect her marks is if a judge thought it wasn't aesthetically pleasing, or technically inferior, hence lowers his GOE mark.

 

[Frenchie]

She (Julia) comes off -- to me anyways -- as a talented 15 year old girl, a potential #1 skater for tomorrow or next year, but not quite there at the present time.

The politics of the sport are such that the Russians will be in position to medal if they go clean, but I prefer Adelina at the present time, though Julia has higher potential in the long run if growth doesn't ruin her career.

I found it funny, but also a Freudian slip, that Daniel Weiss, the german commentator, would keep on calling Lipnitskaia "Lipinskaia"
The same debate seems to go on here: just like Tara Lipinski, Lipnitskaia is very young, looks even younger, but is very polished for her age.

It seems to me as if the new trend seems to be to lower the PCS score significantly if a skater misses jumps. This, of course, is particularly beneficial to the most consistent jumpers, and Lipnitskaia is among the very top of that list.
A few years ago, Costner, Asada or Patrick Chan would get constant, huge PCS scores regardless of their jumps, but now, if you miss some of those, you go down a lot everywhere. This trend couldn't have come at a better time for Sochi! :think:

 

[martipellow2]

Could someone explain how Adelina received an underrotation deduction for her triple loop? I watched it in slow mo and it seemed to be fully rotated. She landed backwards at the same angle she took off from, and did not do a little half turn on the ice. Is the technical referee saying she pre-rotated? I just don't understand -- it did not look like what I know as a "cheated" jump. It looked like a clean triple.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

For the past 2 or 3 years, I have been predicting the 2014 Olympic Ladies podium to be an all-Oriental affair, with Mao winning from Yun-A and Akiko.

But I have now changed my mind. Sorry Akiko: I still love you, but you are now fighting for 4th.


That performance from Julia was just exquisite.

I have to admit, that programme has been really affecting me all season. It’s a very emotive piece of music to start with, knowing the story behind it. But Julia’s interpretation of it has been making it even more emotional.

But that performance last night was just something else. “Out of this world” would not come near to doing it justice.

I’ve said it already this season, but I’ll say it again. Last season, I was not convinced by Julia. During this year’s GP Series, I got totally converted.

But after yesterday, I am now not only seeing the new Russian No. 1; I am seeing somebody who can dominate Ladies skating once Mao and Yun-A retire.

For the past couple of seasons, I was convinced that Adelina was going to be the next big thing in Ladies skating. Maybe not dominate, but definitely always fighting for the wins. Adelina will definitely be Julia’s main competition. But if Julia gets through puberty and continues to improve, I fear Adelina has already missed the boat.


The judges got it wrong when marking the SP. It should have been Carolina leading from Adelina and Julia going into the FS.

But, by golly they got the marking right with the FS!


On the subject of Carolina, I am always worried when somebody does Bolero. I was not even born in 1984 but, like everybody else, Bolero means Torvill and Dean. And I was nervous as Caro has only just come back to that FS after practicing a different one for the past 6 months or so.

Nevertheless, that was a very good performance. Mind you, I really did not like the bum wiggling she did towards the end. Totally unnecessary.

I was very disappointed for Valentina. When making my predictions, I was seriously tempted to put her in the bronze medal position. After all, we know how Carolina can often buckle under the pressure.

But 6th in each segment was very disappointing. I expected Valentina to be fighting with Carolina over 3rd and 4th, with Alena and Mae-Berenice fighting over 5th and 6th. And, although I did put the right skaters in my predictions for the Top 6, I was not expecting Valentina to be a relatively distant 6th, a full 26 points behind Carolina.


Finally, can I bring up a couple of things that I noticed during the competition.


Firstly, I was amazed that nobody on here has pounced on the fact that, when they were showing Mae-Berenice talking to Katia Krier before going out for her FS, Nicky Slater said:

“Well after the performance that Alena Leonova has just given, I’d like somebody else to come and take over the commentary please. That would be great”.

Now, I can totally understand how he accidentally said the wrong name. You could hear that Nicky was as emotionally affected by Julia’s routine as the rest of us were. It was just a simple slip of the tongue.

And in his defence, he wasn’t the only person to make a mistake. When Alena was being introduced for her FS a bit earlier, I could have sworn that I heard the announcer say “Alena Sotnikova” instead of “Alena Leonova”.

Mind you, I bet Alena wishes she had put in a performance as good as either of her fellow countrywomen!

But, she did do a very good job with a 4th in the SP and a 5th in the FS. Like, after the disaster that was her 2012/13 season, how many people would have predicted that Leonova would be at Europeans this year, never mind finishing 4th overall in it?!


Secondly, I speak a bit of German, but it is not good enough to pick up what people are saying when they are in full flow.

Anyway, because of this, I was paying particular attention when Nathalie Weinzierl was on, and trying to make out what she was saying.

Now, it didn’t go too well! But, I did manage to lip-read what she said as soon as she finished skating. And I can tell you something: you don’t need to be able to speak German to know what she said!

I’m not repeating it here, because it’s not very lady-like. But, if you want to see it for yourself, here it is on the video.


Overall, a very enjoyable European Ladies Championships. Roll on Sochi!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Ven]

This will sound horrible but I hope Julia gets a straight across the board negative bias on PCS. Otherwise I worry there's a hidden bias towards her scoring. When the judges watch the other ladies, they are looking for more expression, artistry, dare I say even beauty? Looking at Julia, those are things they will NOT be looking for in the same way just because of her age and appearance. You have to respect her talent (unpolished as it is) but it's still awkward to watch her (next to the mature ladies). I'm afraid she could get the kid gloves treatment, and if she just lands a jump it's the most amazing thing in the world.

It's kind of like with Julia, just because of how young she is .... almost the judges are forced to look at nothing but her technical skills (and even then probably not looking close enough), which is an unfair advantage, especially if they grade her generously.

 

[Frenchie]

Surely I can't be the first one to say this but those gloves on Adelina are hideous. How on earth can her people make her wear those gloves?

Given how many skaters end up in the K&C with bloody fingers because of all the catch foot spins they do, I think it's a level-headed approach. It's almost unrecognizeable for the judges and the live audience without the zoom-ins of the camera.

 

[EyesOfLove]

I've just watched Julia's FS and it's just SHOCKING how low her 2A is. Pretty interesting how she can fully rotate the jump with almost nonexistent height. I certainly appreciate her consistency and competitiveness though. She IS definitely an official OGM contender at this point.

As for Carolina, it's good that she went back to Bolero. This is the program that really suits her and accentuates her strength. With that said, I personally prefer the former program layout. I don't like how she has to circle around the same spot twice to land the same triple(one in combo) back to back, as well as the conventional ending with spin. Risky as it was, the 3S preceding to the ending was perfectly timed to the music and had a bit more "epic" feel to it. Still, she made a smart move right before Sochi, and no one can deny her excellence in terms of performance and pure artistry.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I found it funny, but also a Freudian slip, that Daniel Weiss, the german commentator, would keep on calling Lipnitskaia "Lipinskaia"
The same debate seems to go on here: just like Tara Lipinski, Lipnitskaia is very young, looks even younger, but is very polished for her age.

I think the rink announcer pronounced Julia's surname the same way, because I remember thinking "eh?! Did she say 'Lipinski'?!" So, perhaps that is the way Julia wants it pronounced.

Kinda like Leonova's first name (Alena) being pronounced the same way as Savchenko's (Aljona).

As for Julia looking young for her age, I would disagree. I would say she does look her age. It's just that every other teenage girl in the world looks older than their age!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[elif]

Please. Julia's programs was the most artistic program of all night.

For PCS: Sotnikova and Kostner got same transition score 8.50. :think: I think Adelina deserved more. Sotnikova's choreography score is higher than Carolina. I think this time Carolina deserved more. But she shouldn't be smiling all the time at this program. Still a lot of better than first LP.